I'm trying to Build an Undead Lord Antipaladin need some help


Advice


I looked up Bohdi's guide but it really didnt show alot for an undead lord.

What im looking at doing is building an Antipaladin that basically walks around with a small undead army and a Necrocraft Creation. Im still in the process of building the character. I joined an Evil campaign at level 12 and would like some help. I have not yet entered the campaign so i am able to adjust my character still and when i get home from work i will post what i have so far.

*Edit: Forgot to mention i have the Knight of Sepulchure archetype


I guess there are not many people who have tried this. i do remember that I went a little more into intel than most so i could get more spells per day. so i could use animate dead more often in connection with desecrate.


As horrible as it is, I'm a bigger fan of the undead lord paladin :3

Just be a paladin/oracle 1 (Juju) and take the unsanctioned knowledge feat


If it wasnt an evil campaign that may work but i would constantly be in conflict with everyone else


Xemnas wrote:
If it wasnt an evil campaign that may work but i would constantly be in conflict with everyone else

ahhhh

I think i saw somewhere that tieflings can cast animate dead as a racial

Silver Crusade

knight of the sepulcher anti paladin archetype, Dhamphir race.

profit.

also, Aegis builds work really well for anti-paladins as you don't care if half your party dies (and you wont. like, literally, you wont die lol.)


After you learn animate dead, take all 5 lvls of the Agent of the Grave PrC. And if you want to go to the extreme, go Antipaladin 2 / Juju Oracle 6 / Agent of the grave 5 / Juju oracle 7. Rememeber to use the bestow grace of the champion spell and be a better anipaladin form a regular antipaladin.

I would avoid the sepucler archetype, unless you astart at high lvls (15 lvl for example). If you already have it, dip only one lvl in agent of the grave at 11th lvl for Cha to to hp and the rest after you take the 15th lvl calss feature.

No need to be a stricktly aegis antipaladin, as long as you can use a quickdraw shield. Also, the mentality that you do not care about your party is not right IMO. Of course you do, unless you are fine with PvPing too and making new characters every other session.

Even if you do not want to continue with juju oracle, agent of the grave will greatly enlarge your HD pool for controlling undead. And it also gives an excuse for aquiring the Vampire template as well. :)


Xemnas wrote:

I looked up Bohdi's guide but it really didnt show alot for an undead lord.

What im looking at doing is building an Antipaladin that basically walks around with a small undead army and a Necrocraft Creation. Im still in the process of building the character. I joined an Evil campaign at level 12 and would like some help. I have not yet entered the campaign so i am able to adjust my character still and when i get home from work i will post what i have so far.

*Edit: Forgot to mention i have the Knight of Sepulchure archetype

Straight Anti-paladin, knight of the sepulcher.

Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Extra Lay on Hands (it heals you), Quick Channel,
Dazing Assault at 11th

Drow: The antipaladin adds +1/4 to the number of cruelties he can inflict.

and so also qualify for Arcane Strike.


insaneogeddon wrote:
Xemnas wrote:

I looked up Bohdi's guide but it really didnt show alot for an undead lord.

What im looking at doing is building an Antipaladin that basically walks around with a small undead army and a Necrocraft Creation. Im still in the process of building the character. I joined an Evil campaign at level 12 and would like some help. I have not yet entered the campaign so i am able to adjust my character still and when i get home from work i will post what i have so far.

*Edit: Forgot to mention i have the Knight of Sepulchure archetype

Straight Anti-paladin, knight of the sepulcher.

Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Extra Lay on Hands (it heals you), Quick Channel,
Dazing Assault at 11th

Drow: The antipaladin adds +1/4 to the number of cruelties he can inflict.

and so also qualify for Arcane Strike.

Knight of the Sepulcher does not recieve any cruelties, so the drow alt. favored class bonuse is wasted.

Also, unless you can swift acton heal yourself with touch of corruption (by RAW you cannot), being able to be healed by negative energy is not a big deal, not worth losing cruelties IMO.


Knight of the Sepulcher is an Anti-Paladin and gets all the cruelties.

Also as touch of corruption says "Alternatively, an antipaladin can use this power to heal undead creatures, restoring 1d6 hit points for every two levels the antipaladin possesses." and knight of the sepulcher says "He is harmed by positive energy effects and healed by negative energy effects as though he were undead".

So its win / win.

Also don't forget the (potential gold) feat:

Unsanctioned Knowledge
You have searched though forbidden texts and are privy to powerful but proscribed magic.
Prerequisites: Int 13, ability to cast 1st-level paladin spells.
Benefit: Pick one 1st-level spell, one 2nd-level spell, one 3rd-level spell, and one 4th-level spell from the bard, cleric, inquisitor, or oracle spell lists. Add these spells to your paladin spell list as paladin spells of the appropriate level. Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed.

Bard and inquisitor lists have some awesome boons. Heroism as 2nd level spell is made of win, just stacks those saves/hit/skills/initiative checks that much higher!

Dark Archive

My advice is to skip over the use of undead. I have foy.d the use of animate dead and such spells to have made my experience GMing miserable. I have nothing against undead, it us nit a flavor problem. I have a problem with stuff like blood money making it cost nothing and how a low level spell can create 4 times your (caster?) Level of undead HD, or an entire party all by itself. Not exactly a whole.party as they all should only have the casters worth.of equipment but that it enough on action economy alone. Then this BS about bloody skeletons being destroyed and coming back after only an hour is just so full of it. Comparatively, casters only get summon spells for a round per level. Even an Eidolon requires another day to resummin unless you have the spell that makes it a standard action.

Maybe with anti pal progression, you might be less an.offender but I still advise against it.


According to the pfsrd, knight of the sepulcher loses all the cruelties for the 15th lvl feature called Crypt Lord.

Also, I am not not arguing about him being able to heal from touch of corruption, I am arguing about if he can swift action heal himself. This makes all the difference in the utility granted by touch of corruption and the relevant text that allows regular paladins to swift action heal themselves with lay on hands has been removed from the touch of corruption has been removed.

Finally, bear in mind that you exchange Touch of the Crypt for Fiendish Boon. By losing this and cruelties, you lose almost every offensive option antipaladin brings on the table.

AS far as Unsactioned Knowledge is concearned, it is a potentially useful feat for many paladin builds. Heroism though is a morale bonus that does not affect undead creatures, so it is probably not the best choice for this lvl.

Silver Crusade

Every offensive... other than the damage you do?


rorek55 wrote:
Every offensive... other than the damage you do?

Which is actually nothing impressive without fiendish boon, unless tou smite good. Which is not as reliable as smite evil in normal campaigns, as you are very likely to fight other evil fellows.

Other than that, the debuffing potential of the cruelties is amazing. The gains from the archetype are actually very poor until the 15th lvl, you basically lose cruelties for nothing in return.

The effectivenes of the archetype is limited in general, unless something of the below 3 happens:

1) your GM houserules that you can swift action heal yourself with cruelties, so it is worth to reserve them only for healing yourself

2) you rolled a very low Cha (14 or less) so your cruelties' DC is low and you cannot take full advantage of them

3) you intend to play at high lvls only, as the only worthy features the knight of the sepulcher has to offer is Crypt Lord and Undying Champion


Pretty sure it only replaces the cruelty you would get at 15th level. Compare to every other archetype. d20 prd is not official and full of house assumptions and 3rd party materials as befits a site that wants to scam sales $ from paizo and you and caters to cheaty gamers that like looking at the monsters in a module before hand etc..

Even if DMs a bugger and rules its not the case cruelties are under whelming (gets a save) unless your life is just about de-buffing others for your master and boss (not very chaotic evil).

You swap fiendish boon (a minor offensive buff) for some serious defences. Its like a Stonelord Paladin vs a Straight Paladin .. seen a stonelord in play? They're GOOD.
Knight of the Sepulcher is better than stone lord!

Mind effects, poison, death effects, energy drain, all negative energy effects, crits, sneak attacks, paralysis, stun, sleep are all issues for a warrior if the DM is playing modules intelligently and actually trying to hinder the warriors. You cannot smite the evil things but your immune to all their nasty tricks and 2H power attack full attacks still hurt never mind with a conductive weapon passing on extra d6s for good measure - as for good things .. smite! Cleric level good casting is not as rare as you think on 'monsters' = +2dam per lev).

Its just trading situational x per day offence for all situations infinite times per day defense.

Never mind if you have ever played in an evil party with undead never mind vampires and liches and such you know NOT being immune to their mind and body effects basically means you're their utter utter slave and subject to death at their whim.

Evil parties probably have burst damaging repose touching clerics (more the better..or worse if DMing..) etc etc. Anti-paladins are only in evil parties realistically so its a completely different set of defences/bonuses you're going for and the straight anti-paladin doesn't fit the bill from what I have seen. Better to be an immune high HD full bab that tells the casters what for. Knight of S actually saved the anti-paladin in my book from just being an enslaved and fearful meat shield that debuffs targets for their masters. Maybe if you play 1 on 1 or something - actually even as lone warriors anti-paladins suck - sooner or later a cr nothing shadow has you as you lurk in a dark place fancying yourself an evil force of nature..BAH!


d20pfsrd may not be 'official' but it's actually correct more often than the Official PRD is.

As an example, the PRD does not update with FAQs unless they directly make it into published errata. Since re-prints are so few and far between, you will see the PRD out-of-date more often than naught.

[Edit] But, you know, just to amuse you.

OFFICIAL PRD wrote:
Crypt Lord (Ex): At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher's chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued. This ability replaces cruelty.
d20pfsrd wrote:

Crypt Lord (Ex):At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher’s chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued.

This ability replaces cruelty.

Funny how they have the exact same wording.


Crypt Lord (Ex)

At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher’s chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued.

This ability replaces cruelty.

Its gone forever unfortunately. I was playing a knight and its horrible and boring. The feat Necromantic Affinity makes you heal from negative energy, or just starting as Dhamphir. Knight is a trap, its not even well thought out. You get crit resistance when they removed crit immunity from undead, your earlier bonus' to poison and death and such are removed when you become immune later, etc etc. Just avoid it, it's frustrating.


Tels wrote:

d20pfsrd may not be 'official' but it's actually correct more often than the Official PRD is.

As an example, the PRD does not update with FAQs unless they directly make it into published errata. Since re-prints are so few and far between, you will see the PRD out-of-date more often than naught.

[Edit] But, you know, just to amuse you.

OFFICIAL PRD wrote:
Crypt Lord (Ex): At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher's chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued. This ability replaces cruelty.
d20pfsrd wrote:

Crypt Lord (Ex):At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher’s chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued.

This ability replaces cruelty.

Funny how they have the exact same wording.

Whats not paizo legal they are wrong FAR more often - it includes all the races where you can choose your stat mod, feats and traits from campaign specific material, REALLY broken 3rd party prestige classes etc etc. None of that is official so not official far more often.

The d20 is slower, uses more download (if it matters at end o mth), is a marketing tool thats stealing from others intellectual property. I don't like being used personally and think intellectual property should be protected - suppose it might depend on if you have any or not for some and how much you apreciate advertising tricks I suppose.

paizosrd + faq is all you need. Keeping updated on the faqs is hardly an issue.


insaneogeddon wrote:
Tels wrote:

d20pfsrd may not be 'official' but it's actually correct more often than the Official PRD is.

As an example, the PRD does not update with FAQs unless they directly make it into published errata. Since re-prints are so few and far between, you will see the PRD out-of-date more often than naught.

[Edit] But, you know, just to amuse you.

OFFICIAL PRD wrote:
Crypt Lord (Ex): At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher's chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued. This ability replaces cruelty.
d20pfsrd wrote:

Crypt Lord (Ex):At 15th level, a knight of the sepulcher’s chance of ignoring critical hits and sneak attacks increases to 75%, as though he were wearing armor of heavy fortification. He gains immunity to death effects, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. He no longer sleeps. The knight of the sepulcher also gains immunity to effects that cause fatigue, and effects that would cause him to become exhausted instead cause him to become fatigued.

This ability replaces cruelty.

Funny how they have the exact same wording.

Whats not paizo legal they are wrong FAR more often - it includes all the races where you can choose your stat mod, feats and traits from campaign specific material, REALLY broken 3rd party prestige classes etc etc. None of that is official so not official far more often.

The d20 is slower, uses more download (if it matters at end o mth), is a marketing tool thats stealing from others intellectual property. I don't like being used personally and think intellectual property should be protected - suppose it might depend on if you have any or not for some and how...

Not sure where you think they got Humans wrong, or Half-elves or Half-orcs, but 3rd party material is clearly listed as being 3rd party.

d20pfsrd is not stealing any ones intellectual property, I don't know why you think that. Is it because they have 3rd party material on the site? Material that was, for the most part as far as I am aware, added to the site by the publishers themselves?

Or is it that they include material from the Campaign Setting books published by Paizo? If the d20 website were stealing intellectual property, you'd bet your ass that Paizo would have shut the site down. Instead, they all know it's there and nothing is done about it.

In fact, just to maintain the legality of the site, after d20 started up a store, they systematically removed all 'Golarion' names and references. For example, the Dawnflower Dervish bard is called Dervish of Dawn. d20pfserd has a sister site that maintains the original campaign setting material, but is not affiliated with the d20 store.

As it stands, every time I've come across an incorrect item in the PRD, the d20 website has it corrected. I've never come across anything incorrect on the d20 website other than simple spelling mistakes (like typing teh instead of the). More often than not, I see things like 'Editors Note' on the side that references a mistake in a monsters statblock, then stating the correct stating and advising GMs to use the revised stats. As an example, see the hydrodaemon a large creature that has a BAB of 10, strength of 18 and a CMB of 15, but only +9 on a grapple (despite gaining a +4 from grab); the d20pfsrd makes a note of this error, and advices using +19 for it's grapple bonus.

What abut the Holy PRD? Let's check... hyrdrodaemon... Oh! Would you look at that? The PRD lists the mistake as well.

Fact of the matter is, the d20pfsrd website is a better resource, and more reliable resource, to use than Paizo's PRD.


I have seen mention of Agent of the Grave PrC in multiple topics and was wondering if anyone happens to know what book it comes from so i can do some reading on it.


Xemnas wrote:
I have seen mention of Agent of the Grave PrC in multiple topics and was wondering if anyone happens to know what book it comes from so i can do some reading on it.

Pathfinder Adventure Path #45: Broken Moon


This is way easier than people are making it.

This if for a BBEG right?

Make a Darkskull out of the skull of a halfling child or something. Mount it on the blackguard's sword.

Make the sword Intelligent. Give it the following powers-

Greyflame

Blood Money x3 per day (cut your hand on the sword blade or something)

Animate Dead x3 per day

Teleport x3 per day

Create Undead x1 per week

Command Undead at will.

Now you're ready to go. For extra goodness take Quickened Channel and make your blackguard a Lich. When he is defeated, the sword, being intelligent, teleports to the Phylactory site and waits for it's master to reform.

It can do this whenever, so it might even stick around for a while and spy on the party.


Im not really going for a BBEG, Since im comeing into the campaign after they have already been playing a while The BBEG has already been estabilished as a Fire Wizard Vampire,(Odd coupleing if you ask me) Im mainly entering in as a General of an Undead army. The character that i am makeing Was basically being made to Command Undead and a couple of necrocraft if possible as a small army in crippleing towns so we can easily take over. So i was looking at Doing Knight of Sepulchure to make an undead lord basically


So this is for an actual character? What level?


Right now they are at level 12 by the time i join it may be 13


Max out UMD, get items that cast Animate Dead and Command Undead (the spell), take Command Undead as a feat. Take Leadership and make all your followers Undead. That's pretty much good enough.

All you really need to be an undead lord is a reliable way to cast Animate Dead and Command Undead. Anyone can do it with UMD and a few scrolls.


Can you be a Graveknight? Problem solved


Had to find this post, but if your character levels are subject to change, I would recommend something like this for an undead lord. Keep in mind, the best way to be an undead lord, is to actually be an undead that has a create spawn ability, like a shadow. Every person a shadow kills via strength drain, rises as a shadow under the control of the one who killed it, with no limit. So if you were a shadow, and you killed 10,000 kobolds in their den, you now command 10,000 shadows.

For you, I would suggest trying to become an Vampire or Graveknight, both make great undead lords. The Graveknight is the martial version of a lich, while the Vampire is the better 'master of the dead' kind of character.

See, you track down and find Clerics to turn into Vampires and then force those clerics to control other undead for you, while you control your own. For your coffin, you do something tricky, like putting your coffin in a Portable Hole, and then having Shrink Item cast upon the Portable Hole so it shrinks down to 1/16 of it's normal size, makes it damn near impossible to find.

As a Graveknight, you have the ability to force limited number of undead to serve you, but you're also nigh-unkillable. See, the Graveknight template doesn't actually state you have to wear the armor, so you can hind it and keep regenerating if someone kills you. The template already makes you immune to cold and electricity, and the template states that if no energy was particularly present in your death, it defaults to fire. So turning into a Graveknight essentially makes you immune to 3 of the 5 energy types (acid, cold, fire, shock, sonic).

Silver Crusade

Also. Take a look at necromancer feats. Boosts all your undead a gooood bit.


Undead Master is a trap feat. It doesn't actually increase the number of undead you can control. It just lets you raise more with a single casting of Animate Dead.

The only time that's good is if you are trying to raise undead mid-combat. If your necromancer raises their undead like most do, out of combat, in a Desecrated area, the feat is pretty worthless.


Doomed Hero wrote:

Undead Master is a trap feat. It doesn't actually increase the number of undead you can control. It just lets you raise more with a single casting of Animate Dead.

The only time that's good is if you are trying to raise undead mid-combat. If your necromancer raises their undead like most do, out of combat, in a Desecrated area, the feat is pretty worthless.

Undead Master wrote:
When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.

I'm not so sure you know how controlling the dead works.

Animate Dead wrote:
The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward this limit.

You have, effectively, two different limits when it comes to controlling the dead, the limit from Command Undead, and the limit from Animate Dead.

Say you're a 12th level caster and you wish to animate some dead, your limit is 4 * 12 = 48 HD worth of undead. However, if you have the Undead Master feat, you are treated as 4 levels higher, so you can actually control 4 * 16 = 64 HD of undead via Animate Dead.

Now, you also have the Command Undead feat you also can control up to your cleric level in undead. In the case of the 12th level caster above, this is 12 HD worth of undead. However, if he also has the Undead Master feat, he's treated as 4 levels higher, so he can actually control 16 HD worth of undead. All told, he can control up to 80 HD of undead at 12th level with the Command Undead and Undead Master feats.

Not so much a trap feat at all.


Master summoner + undead templates = win

Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Funny coincidence, I actually covered this build in my first Iconic Design article today. Check it out; you might like what you see.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Funny coincidence, I actually covered this build in my first Iconic Design article today. Check it out; you might like what you see.

I just read the first paragraph. Totally Arthas!


Here is something for you:

Have you considered the Bone Lord feat? It allows animation and control of skeletal undead at 1/2 the cost of the normal. So basically, you can make bloody skeletons at the same costs as normal skeletons. Have to have spell focus necromancy as a pre-req. PM me if you need to know the source as it is a Pathfinder approved source.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Funny coincidence, I actually covered this build in my first Iconic Design article today. Check it out; you might like what you see.

I just read it all. Nice work! What about continuing the HV with lvls of Agent of the Grave for controlling even more minions?

Contributor

XMorsX wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Funny coincidence, I actually covered this build in my first Iconic Design article today. Check it out; you might like what you see.
I just read it all. Nice work! What about continuing the HV with lvls of Agent of the Grave for controlling even more minions?

I went oracle instead so Arthas could cast greater create undead (a 6th level spell).


Tels wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

Undead Master is a trap feat. It doesn't actually increase the number of undead you can control. It just lets you raise more with a single casting of Animate Dead.

The only time that's good is if you are trying to raise undead mid-combat. If your necromancer raises their undead like most do, out of combat, in a Desecrated area, the feat is pretty worthless.

Undead Master wrote:
When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.

Animate.

Not control.

Your control values do not increase.

What this feat does is let you raise more undead at one time, and lets you go longer between castings of Command Undead.

I wish it was the way you interpret it, but it isn't.

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