So I need to make a dungeon for the weekend, but I won't lie, I SUCK at it. Like really hard. Most my campaigns are urban role playing but I have a few new people in the group who want a taste if dungeon crawling.
So, what do?
What's makes a good dungeon? Any advice on making one? Honestly give me ANY advice, because I need it.
Thanks in advance guys.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Alright, first up, "A Dungeon" is EXTREMELY vague. I could rattle on for hours about all the different possibilities I might come up with for a dungeon and wouldn't cover even a fraction of all the possibilities that there are.
So let's get more specific; you need a dungeon, which means something is happening plot-wise. What's going on? Have the PCs been sent to find a powerful magic items? Are they trying to clear out some bandits that have made their lair in a local dungeon? Are they rescuing a kidnapped child?
None of these questions is going to lock you into any one dungeon concept, but they can give you ideas of what you might want to work with. As a hypothetical, let's use those bandits:
Because the concept I have here is probably of a small-time group of criminals, let's assume they aren't heavily entrenched in their own personal fortress, and have instead simply appropriated some abandoned locale. I could choose from a variety of options for this, including quite a number of types of cave, but the first thing that truly jumps out at me is to make their lair a remote monastery in the wilderness, perhaps one which the bandits recently seized control of.
This choice gives me easy justification for why their lair has separate rooms and constructed areas, provides me with the potential for a friendly face or two to rescue (a captured monk or priest, for example), and gives me opportunity to expand the variety of encounters beyond just bandits (a religious location that's recently fallen on hard times might have some undead rattling around in the basement, for example, or could have gargoyles on the rooftops).
I also like to give areas of my dungeons purpose when I design them, and in the case of a dungeon like this, that means both past and present purpose. What was once a small room for individual prayer might be currently used for storage, or as a privvy by the bandits, for example, and the main altar may have been desecrated and re-purposed if any of the bandits are religious. Something like a kitchen on the other hand may still be being used for its original purpose, in which case I might make it clear that the kitchen supplies seem to predate the arrival of the dungeon's current masters. All these points are just examples, but they add little touches of life to what would otherwise be boring 20x30 (or whatever other measurement) rooms.
Ultimately, the main thing I make sure I know when designing a dungeon is "How do people live here?" Which means I need at least a general idea of where and how the dungeon inhabitants secure food and supplies (or if they need to at all), and I need an understanding of how the dungeon inhabitants get along, whether they be perfect allies, mercenaries hired for coin, barely-tamed guard monsters, or cohabitants that grudgingly share the same space only because nobody has succeeded in killing their 'allies' yet.
...I'll leave it at that for now. We might be able to provide more specific responses if you let us know what the situation is that calls for a dungeon, what the location is (if your party is in a desert, for example, your options might be significantly different than if your party is at the North Pole), and what your party is (which means levels, number of members, and classes/roles of the party members).
You don't happen to have a copy of Red Box Basic lying around do you?
Wow, what an exceptional response. Thank you gluttony for going so in depth with it. :)
So here's the situation most the dungeons are tombs for a long dead and ancient civilization. The civilization was so powerful as they actually came from another planet as refugees and brought the knowledge of thousands of years with them. With in these tombs are powerful relics that the people of the current world are now discovering and digging up.
The one they will be going into this week end has already been picked over by the cult that is also interested in these artifacts. Decendants of this ancient people can enter the tombs unmolested, all the members of this cult fit into this category, but the PCs do not.
So I actually want to give my dungeon life, but I'm confused on the process or the general idea. I don't want rooms to just be rooms.
Any advice on how you guys would go about making this "dungeon"?
And what's a red box?
Wow, what an exceptional response. Thank you gluttony for going so in depth with it. :)
So here's the situation most the dungeons are tombs for a long dead and ancient civilization. The civilization was so powerful as they actually came from another planet as refugees and brought the knowledge of thousands of years with them. With in these tombs are powerful relics that the people of the current world are now discovering and digging up.
The one they will be going into this week end has already been picked over by the cult that is also interested in these artifacts. Decendants of this ancient people can enter the tombs unmolested, all the members of this cult fit into this category, but the PCs do not.
So I actually want to give my dungeon life, but I'm confused on the process or the general idea. I don't want rooms to just be rooms.
Any advice on how you guys would go about making this "dungeon"?
And what's a red box?
A big box where you can rent movies for dollars a day ;D
Seriously, i would have the cultist, obviously, and then some devils, demons, daemons, or whichever outsider the cult follows.
If it's not like that, give them some monsters that fit their "theme".
With the "other planet and thousands of years of knowledge", that gives you the option of adding very, very old things. Immortal, if needed.
Stuff like proteans, and the Old Ones. These would preferably be on the lower levels, that aren't explored by the current cultist inhabitants.
Ok, so in you situation, the first question you have to ask is: how will your party be finding something that hasn't already been found and taken? Is it guarded by a particularly nasty trap, is it behind a door that the cultists haven't found/can't open?
The second thing to answer is: What will be molesting the party that has not molested the cultists? Since you say it is a tomb, the obvious answer is undead, but the ancient civilization bit makes me think of constructs, who would have lasted since then.
Are the tombs completely abandoned except by the "guardians," or are there area where more traditional monsters have moved in? If monsters have moved in, how have they moved in without fighting the guardians? Have they tunneled in from the darklands? Have they barricaded themselves in a room the guardians can't access?
If you have access, I'd check out the first book of the Shattered Star AP. The main dungeon in that book has some elements that might help you.
Alright, so you've got a tomb of alien artifacts that's associated with a cult. That's good, there's a number of different directions you can go with that.
Here's one route you might go, though obviously it's just a suggestion, and I've kept it vague since I don't know your group's exact composition:
Undead are obvious. It's a tomb, so your players are likely going to be outright expecting some undead. They'll probably prepare for undead. I'd throw in at least some undead enemies at the very least just to allow such preparation to pay off. They'll likely be in the deepest, least-explored corners of the dungeon, considering their nature. The type of undead is going to depend on the level of the party, and there are so many types of undead that it would be futile to try and list all possible choices to challenge all possible levels. Just go with what works for the party's APL, and try to make it fit thematically.
Cultists are the second big choice. Sounds like they're the only ones with official permission to explore the tomb, so I'd recommend a base-camp of cultists partway into the tomb. Personally I'd make this the central 'hub' of the dungeon, as cultists are easily capable of being your party's most versatile foes, and a central base of operations allows you to realistically spread them out through the tomb. A central base camp of living cultists also adds familiarity and life to a place that is, by its definition as a tomb, full of death. Clerics are a classic choice for cultists, of course, as are rogues, but feel free to mix it up for variety's sake. A witch or druid might fit in well, depending on the circumstances, and a summoner might prove especially thematic here, as eidolons are often strange and seemingly-alien creatures. 0hd races tend to be classic for such foes, but that's not a rule that's set in stone. Are the cultists human? orcs? boggards, maybe? A mix of options may be best, and there's plenty of options to choose from. It's up to you to decide the details based on what you want for the place.
For your third big influence, you'll likely want something related to the alien nature of the place. Your options here are going to vary hugely depending on the level of your PCs. At low levels you might find the Akata (Bestiary 2) useful, whereas high levels might call for something like one of Bestiary 4's Outer Dragons. In terms of location, aliens tend to be either invasive, or long-forgotten, so I would likely concentrate such foes either in the deepest of the deep part of the dungeon (this would also likely be where your alien relics would be), or close to the entrance. Of course you could also do both; having alien foes deep within the tomb, for example, while also having, say, an outer dragon lairing in the entryway; attracted by the influence of the place. In such a situation, you'll also want to figure out how the cultists are bypassing foes in the entryway. Bribery? Stealth? Force? Is there a secret back door to this place, maybe?
And finally, you have the random monsters, though when I say 'random' I really mean 'Make sure to come up with a reasonable reason why these things are here'. Do you have a wild beastie that lives in the tombs (vermin might find the place comfortable)? Something the cultists have brought in as a pet or guard-monster? Perhaps instead there's something hunts the cultists, which they're constantly forced to keep at bay as they work in the tombs.
The Carrion Crown Adventure Path has some good monsters of both alien and undead varieties, if you have it available to look at. Bestiary 4 is also quite good. If any other sources or ideas seem like they'll work for you, don't be afraid to go for them.
|
Where did the dungeon come from in the first place? Was it built by an ancient civilization, or recently? Mines, fortification, temple, tomb, or maybe natural caves? Maybe several of the above that bumped into each other.
Really old dungeons tend to have population that doesn't age, doesn't need food and drink. Undead, constructs, outsiders, traps, structural hazards.
But since then, new people may have colonized the dungeon, wholly or just the parts they managed to conquer. In a currently inhabited part of the dungeon, traps work differently; the inhabitants need to be able to bypass them. The people who live there need to eat, sleep, pee, and relax. They may have an ecosystem going on, and trade with the outside world (or raid...). Creature types: could be almost anything.
Important to consider: can the PCs clear the whole dungeon in one day, or do they need to somehow retreat or barricade themselves in order to rest and regain spells?
If the dungeon has various "zones" that don't interact much (the lower dungeon is still undead that don't leave, the upper levels house goblins that fear the undead), then players can do part of the dungeon, then back off and come back later. However, leaving halfway through the goblin level is different: when you come back they'll be on high alert.
---
Read the chapters in the core book after the Spells chapter. They have very good information about dungeons.
Do not make the dungeon symmetrical or logical.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One thing is to integrate story into the dungeon crawl.
What is the party hoping to accomplish by exploring this dangerous site? Are they actively opposing the cult's goals or is this their first contact with them?
-Overall, I'd say its important to identify some specific objectives that the party is likely to accomplish by entering these tombs (i.e. learn more about the cult's goals, obtain some of the race's technology, track down a particular cultist etc.). The goals of the party are likely to shape how they go about their task (e.g. a rescue mission, heist, lore gathering etc.) and should inform you as to how to run the crawl and where you might want to insert clues either about your ongoing plot or providing further background about the cult and their origins. Libraries or archives of course make great info-dumps as does large scale artworks such as murals, tapestries etc.
So you have a set of underground warrens, the remnants of a long dead race from another planet and a cult of their descendants having pilfered some of their tech.
I'd second Glutonny's suggestions of leaving some of the cultists active in the complex. Perhaps while they obtained the key item they were looking for there is a group doing mop-up or leaving traps behind to protect their find. They also make sense as your chief protagonist. If they know the complex and become aware of intruders the crawl could quickly shift from a simple exploration to a deadly game of cat and mouse as the cultists use traps, hit and run tactics to terrorize and eventually eliminate the party (that is of course until the party turns the tables by locating some plasma guns).
Constructs and machinery seem a likely theme given the interplanetary nature of the tomb.
What is the purpose of the 'dungeon'? Is it a crashed ship? An actual tomb or simply a storage facility for critters held in suspended animation? Or something entirely else? Again how does this complex relate to the greater story of the campaign?
Sounds like a fun session!
Sorry for the drive-by, I was posting from work. Red Box . Other people have given good advice I would like to just throw in my two copper.
How far along are you as far as mapping, etc? Paratime has some great (free) maps. How big are you looking to make this thing? Is it just for one session or multiple sessions?
In general you want a mixture of monster encounters, traps, treasure, "tricks" (things for the PCs to mess around with that are not necessarily harmful), and a few hidden areas as a reward for careful searching. You also want empty rooms to provide a place to rest.
If you keep the monster list small and thematically unified (but with a little diversity as far as creature types, intelligent vs non-intelligent, etc) it will make the dungeon more memorable.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Donjon makes a very cool random dungeon generator if you want something that lacks sense but is needed in a hurry. I usually take the dungeons and edit them a bit in photoshop myself.
Strolen's Citadel has a very good article on the "5 Room Dungeon" I recommend you read over.
Those five room dungeons make excellent modules you can hook together to make a bigger dungeon.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I second a lot of folks' advice on adding story to the dungeon. Old, alien civilization right? Ever see the Alien(s) movie(s)? You had stuff like a computer journal or a mute kid in an air duct telling the main characters what came before them; the reason everything was so messed up. I'd suggest something like that.
PCs walk into a bunch of dark chambers in the ground; they kill, loot and leave. This is a tired story. But if it's an alien's tomb, how would they know?
Description is good, but unless the players themselves are super-immersed or you're handing them miniature terrain to match up with what their characters are seeing, this is just a piece of the storytelling. Adding in whole rooms that do nothing else but tell the story of what came before and what's happening now are a good way to get the players involved.
Perhaps the party happens upon a chamber filled with propaganda posters from the alien homeworld; perhaps a "magic mouth" (speaking AI in a computer) explains the historical record of the tomb; maybe there are puzzles that spell out the info they need. My point is that not every chamber in your "dungeon" needs an encounter, hazard, or trap.
Never underestimate the power of monologuing. If the villain delivers a compelling speech, most players shrug and interrupt them with an attack, but there's always that ONE guy at the table (my tables anyway) who's taking note of what the actual words are for later clue-finding. And not all monologues need to be delivered by BBEGs.
In a dungeon I'll be running this weekend I've fabricated a pixie who can spread a rotting disease like mummy rot but instead it makes zombies. The dungeon also has kobolds. One of the rooms I have planned involves the party hearing a scream and bursting in to find a pitiful kobold on the floor. When they roll the dude over his body is literally rotting before their eyes and he's begging them to kill him. In his pleading the kobold supplies some of the story about the pixie.
You've given your dungeon a story and some flavor. If you don't feed it to the players, how will they ever taste it?
5-room dungeons are great and I highly endorse them. Another poster on these boards gave me this advice about stocking your dungeons. Unless it's some megalithic structure that has ALL the monsters in it, then limit yourself. Pick out one primary monster; this isn't the biggest or toughest, just the one that the whole dungeon centers on.
Then pick out a secondary monster. This monster can be a helper to the primary, a direct competition or whatever, but there should be some synergy between the Primary and Secondary. Finally build in a tertiary type that is related to the first 2 but not necessarily controlled by them.
An example would be if you had a dungeon under the roots of an ancient tree. Your region is plagued by the fey. The theme of your dungeon is a low-level cave system where victims are being tortured, their screams captured by faerie magic and used to fuel some fear-based plot or mcguffin. Your primary in this case would be mites; the evil fey who are doing the capturing of the victims and the scaring.
Now an easy secondary to the mites would be vermin. You can have a few different types here; fire beetles, giant centipedes and giant spiders leap to mind. For the tertiary monsters you might have a couple plant creatures outside or some molds/slimes inside reflecting the "nature; corrupted" kind of theme of having mites in the area under this ancient tree.
Hope that helps!
Wow so much great inspiration here. So little back story, this tomb would be the final resting place of one of the ancient civilizations kings. The civilization (called the Humak) fled to this planet and started a great civilization. Slowly the empire collapsed though as the aliens inter married with the local populations, until the empires collapsed.
so I'm thinking the tomb will be for one of the later pharaoh's so there doesnt need to be to futuristic, but I'm thinking that the cultists, in an attempt to excavate the tomb will have broken into another dungeon underneath, which would have once been a Humak mother ship.
It could add an interesting role playing dynamic, as the ships long slumbering occupants could be opposed to their descendants and both could take issue with the undead. Giving room for perhaps some role playing.
Perhaps the cultist them selves are torn between reverence or fear for the occupants.
In the end I want the world to start taking note of these tombs and have the pcs get untangled with the greatest powers in the relm start an arms race by grabbing the artifacts from these tombs.
You guys are awesome, thank you all so much.
|
|
I think what a good dungeoncrawl needs, is a good use of time limits.
If you have all the time in the world to dismantle a dungeon, because the inhabitants of Room A ignore the shouting from Room B, then the PCs can slowly do the dungeon one room at a time. It'll be easy on the casters, but it's kind of anticlimactic.
However, in a dungeon with orcs, if you kill some orcs in the first room, then retreat, the next time you come by, they'll have put new guys there and fortified the place, and they'll be patrolling the neighbourhood to figure out where the attack came from. So it's probably easier to do the dungeon in one massive run, trying to win before the orcs regroup. This is one basic form of time limits: if you're too slow, the dungeon gets its s&@@ together.
The second sort of time limit, is needing to be finished with the dungeon on time, because whatever's in there is needed before some deadline. Rescue the princess before the end of the month, otherwise her evil younger brother takes the throne. Obtain the cure for the plague before more people die.
The third form is competition. You're not the only one doing the dungeon; the Nazis also want to find the Holy Grail. Maybe you'll get to the dungeon first, maybe they got there first. Maybe they softened things up for you, maybe they're hoping you'll make it easier for them. There could be a three-way fight. A variation on this is where you get attacked by jackals waiting for you to finish the dungeon, then, when you're weak, take the MacGuffin from you.
There's many more variations. Maybe the dungeon is only accessible once per century, and if you're still in it after the moon turns, you're locked up there for a century. Maybe the valley will flood again when the rains start. Maybe the orc stronghold is currently vulnerable because the orcs are waging war elsewhere.
The bottom line: a time limit adds a bit of tension. It turns a careful grind into an exciting raid.
