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After reading a few threads here and over at BGG, it seems the second printing of the game is using a US printer and the cards are slightly shorter, but barely noticeable unless you're making a point TO notice it (And this was confirmed by Vic).
Sadly, though, there's two people in my group (three including myself) that tend to notice things like that even without really making a point to look. We're not sleeving our cards, so that won't really help with it.
Starting with AP 3 currently, it seems most locations are being shipped the second printing (as the first has already all sold).
So I was wondering, how hard would I need to work or does anyone have any clue what I'd need to do to make sure I end up with the first printing for AP 3, 4, 5, and 6, aside from randomly searching around to find it?
Or are we just stuck with our OCD overload until we can maybe sell our current first printings and buy all new second printings?
It may sound petty, but there are some things that are really just difficult for us in areas like this, so I'm wanting to figure out how to do things as uniformly as possible. If it's not viable for us, we can just deal, but I figured I'd ask to see if it's even possible at this point.
Deck 3 would be the hard one. Paizo is selling only second printings of that in its own store and is shipping second printing to retail distributors as well. So you would have to find some store other than paizo who still had a first printing of it in stock. I can't tell on Amazon what printing they are selling of deck 3.
A second printing hadn't been issued yet for 4-6, so your best bet would be to buy them as soon as they come out so you get a first printing copy. To be double sure, you could buy from paizo direct as they will probably use 1St printing copies to fill their standing orders before sending anything to distributors.
Paizo is selling only second printings of that in its own store and is shipping second printing to retail distributors as well. So you would have to find some store other than paizo who still had a first printing of it in stock. I can't tell on Amazon what printing they are selling of deck 3.
Are you sure about that? I got my Chapter 3 cards from Paizo as a subscriber; they're exactly the same size as the others I have from base set on (I got my base set on Sept. 1st, so I'm pretty sure it was a first printing). My chapter 3 also says it was printed in China on the back of the box.
Or, did you mean that they ran out of the first printings and had are NOW only selling the 2nd? Going forward, I would expect that they still have all the first printings of Chapters 4-6, so being a subscriber might help to get those versions...
Are you sure about that? I got my Chapter 3 cards from Paizo as a subscriber; they're exactly the same size as the others I have from base set on (I got my base set on Sept. 1st, so I'm pretty sure it was a first printing). My chapter 3 also says it was printed in China on the back of the box.
Or, did you mean that they ran out of the first printings and had are NOW only selling the 2nd? Going forward, I would expect that they still have all the first printings of Chapters 4-6, so being a subscriber might help to get those versions...
I meant the second. As of this post from Vic deck 3 is on second printing. So when they sent out the initial release to subscribers they filled orders from first printing. But if you buy it now (even if you subscribe right now) you'll get second printing of deck 3.
I would imagine that a subscriber at the point of the initial release of deck 4 would have the best chance of getting a first printing of deck 4. Vic gave no indication that decks 4-6 had even had second printings made yet, let alone the need to release them to market. But, if you scroll down in that post Vic explains why deck 3 and the character add-on went into second printing but not the other cards. More people stuck with the game through deck 3 than anticipated, so they hadn't ordered enough printings. The same thing would seem likely decks 4 through 6.
Chief Technical Officer
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We don't have the ability to set aside a particular printing for a particular order. But I can tell you the status as of right now:
Character Add-On Deck: We are shipping the 2nd printing to stores, but we're still shipping the tail end of the 1st printing on paizo.com.
Adventure Deck 3: We are entirely out of the 1st printing, and are shipping the 2nd printing to all markets.
All other PACG products are still on the first printing.
Thank you very much for the detail, Vic, I'm sure I'm not the only one that appreciates it.
The base set is now in a second printing..
I am pretty sure that means everything is in a second printing, except the soon to be released deck 6. And given what happened with deck 5, it probably won't take long for a second printing to be issued of that.
Character add-on.
Deck 3
Deck 3
Deck 4
Deck 5
My post got too old to edit. Here is confirmation of everything except deck 2. I haven't tracked that down yet.
Base Set & Deck 1.
Character add-on.
Deck 2*
Deck 3
Deck 4
Deck 5
*Deck 2 is the only one I can't find official confirmation on. But, if you email or call customer service before you order, I'm sure they'd be happy to verify it for you.
Here is official confirmation about deck 2 (and everything up to 4). Don't know how I missed that before.
How would someone tell what printing they are looking at purchasing? Is there any identifier on the box?
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That doesn't sound like the quality was poor, so much as just different printers are going to look different. I definitely recommend having all first or all second print, but both seem to be of good quality in my experience.
Of course, with Skull & Shackles everything is using one printer, so there shouldn't be any concern about which version you get.
The backs of the cards on my character add-on pack are noticeably lighter than the other cards. I wonder if they are second printing ones then.
For an integrated game like this, where distinguishable card backs can impact (and ruin) gameplay - why was the 2nd print run not rejected and returned to the printer for correction ?
For an integrated game like this, where distinguishable card backs can impact (and ruin) gameplay - why was the 2nd print run not rejected and returned to the printer for correction ?
I think because the 2nd printing run is form a different printer than the first printing run and the backs of the second printing run are how the cards should look going forward. So they have no complaint with the second printer, only with the first.
I think that is fine for future sets eg Skulls & Shackles. I maintain that the supplements to the original set should not have distinguishable card backs, because it significantly impacts gameplay.
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Chief Technical Officer
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There's no way that cards from the first printing could get into a second printing box—the cards were printed by different companies on different continents, many months apart. Nothing was transferred between the two.
There's always going to be *minor* color variation in printing, and since the Base Set contains cards from six different press sheets, there can be minor variation within one box. But overall, you should see a lot more consistency than we had in the first printing.
You should not have cards within the same printing that are different sizes, though. Please drop a note to customer.service@paizo.com.
How many of the sets/packs are now available as 2nd(US) printings?
Will Runeloards stay in print for at least a few years? I realize that eventually you will not be able to keep all APs of the card game in print as it would be too much product.
Lastly, does the US(reprint) of the core set have the new more consistent(font) dice?
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Chief Technical Officer
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*Everything* is now in the second printing, with the exception of the not-yet-released Adventure Deck 6. However, subscriptions, preorders, and initial distributor orders for deck 6 *will* wipe out the entire first printing, so we have already reprinted it, and expect to be shipping the second printing pretty much right away.
We don't intend to keep Runelords (or any other set) in print indefinitely. In an ideal world, I'd like to have two sets available at retail at any one time, so if we managed to sell out of Runelords just before we release the set after Skull & Shackles, I'd be thrilled. However, predicting the quantity we'd need to do that is very tricky, and there's a very good possibility that we'll set out well before or well after that.
The Rise of the Runelords Base Set reprint uses the exact same die molds as the 1st printing. The new dice (which I haven't actually *seen* yet) should be in Skull & Shackles.
Thanks Vic! I like the direction you guys are taking this!
*Everything* is now in the second printing, with the exception of the not-yet-released Adventure Deck 6. However, subscriptions, preorders, and initial distributor orders for deck 6 *will* wipe out the entire first printing, so we have already reprinted it, and expect to be shipping the second printing pretty much right away.
Coming late to the party, I had a hard time finding 1st printings of all the decks (having a 1st printing base set, I wanted matching cards).
I subscribed to get a first printing of deck 6 and I am incredibly disappointed that I just unwrapped by monthly Paizo box to find a second printing deck 6. So even subscribing was not enough to insure I got a matching game.
It's back to the Book Depository for me now, blindly hoping that their first batch will be a 1st printing. But is there even a chance?
I subscribed to get a first printing of deck 6 and I am incredibly disappointed that I just unwrapped by monthly Paizo box to find a second printing deck 6. So even subscribing was not enough to insure I got a matching game.
It's back to the Book Depository for me now, blindly hoping that their first batch will be a 1st printing. But is there even a chance?
I gave up trying to get consistent printings. I'm going to sleeve my cards, which is going to be costly, but I'm already noticing that the edges of these cards are damaged quite easily even with limited shuffling, so it may be necessary if I want to play this game frequently anyway.
I also have a friend who is a serial salsa spiller/pizza slice dropper.BUT I have some good news for you if you're proactive about it! Call Phoenix Comics and Games in Seattle (on Broadway). They had 3-4 copies of the 1st printing of deck 6. I'm sure they'd ship it to you.
I have 2nd printings of expansion decks 2 and 3, and the rest are 1st printings, so I feel your pain.
I'm picking my AP6 up tomorrow. So far I have all 1st printing - but I'm pretty worried about AP6. Should I be though ? How bad is the problem ?
I'm picking my AP6 up tomorrow. So far I have all 1st printing - but I'm pretty worried about AP6. Should I be though ? How bad is the problem ?
The cards are different brightness and the 2nd printing is .5mm shorter. I think the answer to "how bad is it" really depends on the person playing. Some people have said they don't notice any difference while others have said they can tell from the card back which printing it is and know whether or not the card is likely to be a henchman or villain.
There are a few threads where people have shared where they've found 1st printings, so if you get a second printing and you do notice it, it looks like people are offering info that might help you track down a first printing. Here is one example.
That also indicates that there are stores out there with first editions still.
Part of me really wants a second printing of the whole game. I have a first printing of everything right now. I'm torn between wanting my promo cards to be just like everything else in RotR and wanting cards that will mix well with other Adventure Paths and products like the Class Decks. But I have no real way to justify that financially. Oh well.
That also indicates that there are stores out there with first editions still.
Discount Games on eBay just sent me what they tell me is a 1st printing, with promo card. At $14.50, the deck may very well be discounted, but the $17.90 for shipping makes it twice as expensive as the deck I was sent by Paizo.
But what choice do I have? Stores in Europe don't have it yet and those that would be able to answer the question "Is it a 1st or 2nd printing" in a week or two would sell it for 20€ ($28) plus shipping so I wouldn't be better off.
Sleeving… I had a look at the costs a few weeks ago. This is at the moment a very fun $200 game, and at this price, honestly, I am very glad it is. I can't justify making it a $350 game though, even if I also noticed the damage to the edge of the cards after playing the adventure path twice.
Is there a way to tell on Amazon if they are selling first or second printing? So far I have only been able to find first printing for deck 3 rather than second (Everything else I have is second, so I want to stick with that). I still have a couple of other places to check, but just in case I want to be prepared to go to Amazon, where I have free shipping through Prime.
Also, just for comparison, how much does shipping usually run from Paizo for the adventure decks? for the base set? I am considering subscribing starting with S&S, but I am not sure the 20% discount is enough to make up for the shipping, especially considering I can usually by the packs for about $16-$17 locally. I realize you get the promo card too, just trying to weigh the options.
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Sleeving… I had a look at the costs a few weeks ago. This is at the moment a very fun $200 game, and at this price, honestly, I am very glad it is. I can't justify making it a $350 game though, even if I also noticed the damage to the edge of the cards after playing the adventure path twice.
Also keep in mind you can always unsleeve Runelords once you are done with it and use the sleeves on the next adventure, the effective cost per set will be broken down into smaller chunks the longer you keep going with the game that way.
This would also keep your cards in much better shape starting with S&S from the get-go as you would already have them handy to use the second you open the set.
Just a thought, that's how I justified it to myself.
Is there a way to tell on Amazon if they are selling first or second printing? So far I have only been able to find first printing for deck 3 rather than second (Everything else I have is second, so I want to stick with that). I still have a couple of other places to check, but just in case I want to be prepared to go to Amazon, where I have free shipping through Prime.
Also, just for comparison, how much does shipping usually run from Paizo for the adventure decks? for the base set? I am considering subscribing starting with S&S, but I am not sure the 20% discount is enough to make up for the shipping, especially considering I can usually by the packs for about $16-$17 locally. I realize you get the promo card too, just trying to weigh the options.
No idea about how to tell on Amazon. Maybe see if anyone mentioned it in a review or try emailing their customer support.
Paizo is selling second printing I believe. And to get a good idea for the costs, just add an adventure deck to your cart. When you start the checkout process, you will get to see the shipping costs before you confirm. Do the same to see the shipping cost for the box set.
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Chief Technical Officer
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There's no way to know on Amazon. Even if you ordered today and got a second printing, somebody else could order today and get a first printing. Amazon has a *lot* of warehouses, and any given warehouse could have all 1st printings, all 2nd printings, or a mix of both.
All I know is that we're now shipping all 2nd printings.
Sleeving… I had a look at the costs a few weeks ago. This is at the moment a very fun $200 game, and at this price, honestly, I am very glad it is. I can't justify making it a $350 game though, even if I also noticed the damage to the edge of the cards after playing the adventure path twice.Also keep in mind you can always unsleeve Runelords once you are done with it and use the sleeves on the next adventure, the effective cost per set will be broken down into smaller chunks the longer you keep going with the game that way.
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Just a thought, that's how I justified it to myself.
Ha! I like your thinking!
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Its a real shame that Paizo's only real response to the issue has been: 'That's the way it is." Particularly when their support in all other aspects has been outstanding.
I totally understand the rationale behind switching to a better printer going forward, but not when it has the potential to ruin the game for a lot of their loyal customers.
Its a real shame that Paizo's only real response to the issue has been: 'That's the way it is." Particularly when their support in all other aspects has been outstanding.
I totally understand the rationale behind switching to a better printer going forward, but not when it has the potential to ruin the game for a lot of their loyal customers.
I feel you, but understand the whole perspective.
Basically, when they started to run out of inventory, they had three choices:
1. Continue to go with the Chinese printer and have quality control issues, but cards of the same size. (See that thread and you'll see there wasn't a guarantee of cards of the same saturation with the first printing.)
2. Switch to a US printer and end up with cards of slightly different sizes and different saturation then some of the cards from the first printing, but consistent quality with in the second printing copies.
3. Do nothing and let some people end up with an incomplete game.
There is also the possible factor that having the second printing done in China would have kept it off the shelves longer due to shpping (I don't know how international shpping works, but I imagine it is quicker to get something from the US than from China, especially in bulk). Remember, running out of stock took them by surprise. They thought they had over estimated the quantity they'd need. The game was a bigger hit than they'd anticipated. And when they ran out of inventory, they had an opportunity to fix some things and get the product on the shelf. They took it. Its likely that if they had stuck with the same printer, people would have asked "Why didn't you change printers to improve the quality?"
Again, I can understand how you feel. I wanted a complete first printing enough that I switched to a subscription to increase my chances of getting it, despite having it pre-ordered on Amazon at $14 (and prime free shipping). And I was still anxious about both decks 5 and 6.
I'm just not sure there was a perfect solution out there.
Again, I can understand how you feel. I wanted a complete first printing enough that I switched to a subscription to increase my chances of getting it, despite having it pre-ordered on Amazon at $14 (and prime free shipping). And I was still anxious about both decks 5 and 6.
I'm just not sure there was a perfect solution out there.
I thought about it since yesterday and my getting a 2nd printing deck 6 through my subscription.
They obviously had 1st printings and 2nd printings in the warehouse during the same timeframe (the beginning and the end of the subscription run). Seeing how people are intent on getting 1st printings, and others are now just as intent on getting 2nd printings, for us subscribers it would have been a great gesture to, well… just ask.
They know how to fulfill complex Kickstarter rewards, they know how to set aside subscriber packages for onsite pick-up at Paizo Con or Gen Con, they should have been able to ask me if I wanted a 1st or 2nd printing. I would have liked that.
Amazon customer support informed me that they had the US printing, so I took the plunge and purchased. I'll report back once I have them in hand to confirm what I received. They did indicate that I could return them as well if they are not what I expect them to be.
Not that I am against buying from Paizo directly. Its just hard to beat the free shipping with Prime. It looked like about $4.50 to ship decks and around $16 to ship the base sets for me. With the discount Amazon offers, its just too much of a difference in overall cost, even if I subscribe.
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Chief Technical Officer
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They obviously had 1st printings and 2nd printings in the warehouse during the same timeframe (the beginning and the end of the subscription run). Seeing how people are intent on getting 1st printings, and others are now just as intent on getting 2nd printings, for us subscribers it would have been a great gesture to, well… just ask.
They know how to fulfill complex Kickstarter rewards, they know how to set aside subscriber packages for onsite pick-up at Paizo Con or Gen Con, they should have been able to ask me if I wanted a 1st or 2nd printing. I would have liked that.
There's more complexity there than you might imagine. Our solution was to do what we have done for the past year, and that's ship 1st printings to subscribers until we run out of first printings. Deck 6 was the first and only time that we couldn't fill initial subscriber orders with 1st printings.
Amazon customer support informed me that they had the US printing, so I took the plunge and purchased. I'll report back once I have them in hand to confirm what I received. They did indicate that I could return them as well if they are not what I expect them to be.
Not that I am against buying from Paizo directly. Its just hard to beat the free shipping with Prime. It looked like about $4.50 to ship decks and around $16 to ship the base sets for me. With the discount Amazon offers, its just too much of a difference in overall cost, even if I subscribe.
So an update from my experience with Amazon.
Despite my assurance from Amazon Customer Support that they had and would be sending me US Printings of Decks 3, 5 and 6, they each arrived as China printings. No problem, mistakes happen. I contacted customer support and they apologized, very sincere and professional, and sent me return labels, while promptly sending out replacements that they were certain were US Printings.
They were not.
I called customer support after the second set was also China printing. Again they were very courteous and apologetic. They sent another set of return labels, and set my order up for a refund. The customer support person also said they would temporarily remove the decks from the site until a support technician physically confirmed the decks and that they would not be available until confirmed. Once confirmed they would be on the site again and I could re-order.
The decks, to my knowledge, have never been made unavailable. Given that my daughter and I were due to start on Deck 3 (I already have 4 in US Printing from my FLGS) I decided to spend the extra and order from Paizo directly, confirming with customer service (Thank you, Sara Marie!) that they would indeed be US Printing, and they were.
My daughter and I are taking on the ogres tonight!
Following my frustration at trying to get the item I want from Amazon, I decided to take the plunge and become a Paizo PACG subscriber. I do have a pending request with Paizo customer service to see if I can start my subscription with the S&S character add-on rather than the base set, because I have already pre-ordered the base set. Even in the US the cost of shipping is not very appealing. I would like to still get the promos, however, so we'll see how that works out. Either way, its good to know that this particular issue is behind me.
I don't really blame Amazon for the troubles. I understand their logistical issues that would make it near impossible to know what is in the warehouse. But I do wish they had a different product code so they could/ would distinguish between the two. I /would/ recommend ordering from Amazon if you wanted the China printing and could not find them, but with Amazon you could just as easily wind up with either. Of course, maybe you will get lucky and they will send you the ones that I returned.
Is deck six for Runelords now in 2nd printing? What about deck six in the retail channel? My guess is that by now it should be the US printing.
Yes, everything from RotR is second printing now, including what is sent to distributors (and ultimately retailers). But any particular retailer might still have some first printing stock of any given product.