| Question |
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Current hexes :
Slumber
fortune
misfortune
cackle
healing
flight
What hex should i take at level 8? I think most people would say scar, but i dont want to play loophole games with it or use it just to heal the party at long range. I was thinking charm would be nice in social situations, epecially since there are no vocal/somantic components?
For level 4 spells i have black tentacles and dimension door. I have two more new spells at this level, any recommendations for level 4 spells? I was thinking confusion and something else...
While we are at it, any advice for level 9+ (feats/hexes/spells/etc)?
| Shadowdweller |
I would definitely consider evil eye. While yet another mind-affecting ability, it imposes a decent penalty without save. 9 is a very good level for witches - you get 5th level spell slots, which allow for powerhouses such as Dominate Person and Teleport. As well as Quickened Ill Omen. Pick up Quicken Spell if you don't have it already. Or a metamagic rod.
| Orfamay Quest |
Another for evil eye. In particular, this gives you an extremely powerful two-round attack.
Round 1 : Evil eye (saves). This will impose a -2 penalty for at least one round, even if the save is made.
Round 2 : Cackle to extend evil eye, Use Quickened Ill Omen (at a -2 save) to impose a further saving throw penalty. Use the Slumber hex as a fight-ender.
| Devilkiller |
Actually, Orfamay Quest, it is even better than that since Evil Eye increases to a -4 penalty at 8th level. Evil Eye is a great hex, and 8th level is a great time to take it.
For 4th level spells I guess that Fear and Enervation are both classics though Fear and Confusion overlap a bit. Death Ward is situational but can really save your bacon against undead, a foe the Witch focused on mind-affecting stuff is kind of weak against. Spite could be an interesting defensive spell if combined with Spell Storing armor of some sort (+1 haramaki, armored kilt, silken ceremonial armor, etc) to get a 2 for 1 effect on anybody who hits you.
Once you gain 5th level spells you might consider Summon Monster V since it adds a lot of versatility and summoned monsters can harm stuff which is immune to your many mind-affecting powers.
| Question |
I forgot to mention that i do not want to take evil eye because the campaign involves a lot of mind immune enemies. Infact we just cleared a dungeon where all the enemies save one was mind immune (and that was taken care of in one round by the summoner before i could do anything).
Thats why i have misfortune actually, which is pretty much the only offensive hex i have that works on mind immune enemies.
Ward doesnt seem very effective though, primarily because the bonuses dont overlap with the standard ring of protection/cloak of resistance which pretty much all martials will have.
Death ward is a good idea, but what kind of stuff does it usually protect against (and isnt it the kind of spell where you need to cast right before a fight?)
At 9th level i suppose i could take quicken metamagic to do a quickened ill omen...but isnt the target going to pass the save pretty easily (since its only a 1st level spell DC)? Is it possible to just opt not to take a feat at 9th level and then take split hex at level 10?
| EsperMagic |
Personally I never take the cackle hex as one of my level hexes or my extra hex feat hexes, because it can be gained through a cackling Hag's blouse and witches really dont have any better gear for that body slot. See if your DM will allow you two replace cackle with something else , buy the blouse then pick two more hexes. Also scar can be fun without being cheesy. Scar the frontline guys, use your healing hex on them from the backline. Add in split hex if you have two melees. Its a lot more believable than the dumb scar a turtle and make the other PC's carry them loophole.
| Rerednaw |
The scar does not have to be a horrible disfigurement, just something identifiable as a mark. It could be Hello Kitty or smiley faces if you wanted...and the player character could have the scar on his right shoulder, under his armor.
The pet scarring sounds too much like bag of rats from the old days to me... :)
But yes, pick up Evil Eye. My witch (society) is currently 7th and he plans to pick it up at 8th as well. He went with Scar for his 7th (via feat) as he just picked up healing hex.
edit: note you said your campaign is heavy with mind-immune. As a enchanter that is not good but you have other options.
Spell-wise...what is your patron? Generally:
Even at a full-round action, Summon Monster is almost always useful. Just be sure to speak the languages.
Threefold aspect if you are in a low-magic wealth campaign.
If you prefer offense, Enervation is a good option.
If there isn't a divine in the party, Death Ward is a good spell to have handy.
If you find enemies frequently get into your face (unlikely but possible) Cape of Wasps...or the level 3 spell, Call the Void are decent.
And your Vomit Swarm spell (you *do* have it right?) got better last level. Poisonous Wasp Swarms as a standard to summon are fun!
@Q I guess you don't think auto-damage, plus fatigue plus no spell casting silence as an automatic effect to save partial against (reflex which is usually not a good save for melees) is a good idea. I don't know how your game is...it's worked pretty well for my witch. It certainly made the melees think twice about sticking around me while also getting pounded on by others. I used this spell against a boss by simply flying up to her. She wasn't going to kill me in one swing, and the martial that followed me appreciated the flanking I gave. Now if you are facing huge melee boss monsters with massive hit points who can drop you in one hit before anyone else in the party can do anything, then no I don't advise any spells that have limited range.
@ Q I do not understand. You seem to decry options you want when you mind-affecting hexes don't work...when we suggest an option via a spell such as Enervation you state your hexes (which don't work) are better. I'm not sure how that works, but to each their own.
Good luck with whatever you decide sir.
| Question |
Having the blouse with the hex would allow you to use it as a swift action though, which would be invaluable for getting into range.
I thought about just using scar + healing hex but the problem with that is you are basically spending one hex doing nothing but allowing in combat healing. Which -may- save someone's life, but so far i havent actually needed to do that.
I just explained why i do not want to take evil eye for this campaign...
Im not seeing why enervation is good for a witch? Your hexes are already superior debuffs. Not seeing whats so good about call the void either. It certaintly doesnt stop a melee enemy from beating up on you while holding his breath and taking a neglible 2d6 damage per round.
| Lao Haeris |
You will suffer a lot in a campaign with monsters mostly immune to mind affecting abilities. A lot of powerful spells in the witch spell list is exactly that, mind affecting abilities.
That been said, I advice against disguise hex. hat of disguise is cheap cheap cheap. Charm can be really useful out of combat (so is diplomacy + student of philosophy trait) if there is a lot of roleplaying involved. Keep in mind that charm is also mind affecting hex.
Feats you may want to consider:
1) Split hex/split major hex - as soon as you can qualify for it. A MUST.
2) Improved initiative - going first with a witch if very powerful (like all spellcasters)
3) Accursed hex - almost mandatory in my opinion.
4) Scribe scroll - for a divine/arcane prepared spellcaster with many utility and situational spells is also very powerful. Don't hesitate to seriously consider it if you cant think of anything else or you like the idea to craft.
5) Extra Hex - there is great versatility in hexes, so don't be afraid to take this one either.
Also, check if you like:
1) Ability focus (if your dm is fool enough to let you take this)
2) Improved familiar (great versatility, these little critter use your numbers for his skill checks. Great for delivering touch spells also, scout like no one else, and all sort of shenanigans) check some strong options like the Cacodaemon, Cassisian angel, imp, faerie dragon, lyrakien azata, paracletus, silvanshee. Great great SLA's and out of combat utility. In combat also, some of them.
Since you got almost all the good normal hexes, and you are close to qualify for the major ones, I will mention only them:
1) Ice Tomb - super powerful SoD that targets Fortitude (suck it immune-to-mind-affecting-abilities monsters)
2) Retribution - just read the description. lol
3) Delicious fright - A mind affecting hex also.
4) Agony - nauseated is nothing to laugh at. Not my favourite hex though. Reason is that it allows a save to end the effect every single round.
For 4th lvl spells, you 're heading in a good direction. Both black tentacles and dimension door are powerful. So is confusion. Some others you might want to consider:
Death Ward
Enervation
Locate Creature (very situational, but so useful when you need it)
Ice storm (aoe control, no save)
Divination (out of combat utility)
Phantasmal Killer (strong but dangerous)
Threefold aspect
Solid Fog (control and utility)
Arcane eye (great utility for scouting, but doesnt come that often. You may not need to prepare it everyday though)
That's on top of my head. I hope it helps.
| EsperMagic |
I thought about just using scar + healing hex but the problem with that is you are basically spending one hex doing nothing but allowing in combat healing. Which -may- save someone's life, but so far i havent actually needed to do that.
Yes but free once day per person in combat healing is a nice option. And once the scar is applied it doesnt leave unless you choose too.
| Rerednaw |
Question wrote:Yes but free once day per person in combat healing is a nice option. And once the scar is applied it doesnt leave unless you choose too.I thought about just using scar + healing hex but the problem with that is you are basically spending one hex doing nothing but allowing in combat healing. Which -may- save someone's life, but so far i havent actually needed to do that.
@Q: Again this is offering you more options for situations when you stated your primary hexes do not work. If you don't want this option don't take it. 2d8+7 (my witch) at 1 mile range does cost me an action...but it can save a character from a 5,000+ gp raise dead. Again YMMV.
In a low wealth game, free healing is almost always welcome.
When a character is about to die and you are the only character with an action that round or say the party healer is more than a move action away, then yes it is worth it. Again this depends on the setting and campaign so like all other advice here, YMMV.
| Question |
Thanks for all the advice. Im leaning towards charm to try and be more useful out of combat...my question is, what happens when the hex wears off?
Lets say i were to charm a shopkeeper into giving us a small discount. Hex wears off afterwards, what happens?
Ice tomb : Where is the duration for this? Judging from the description im guessing it doesnt work on undead (since undead are immune to paralysis)?
I dont know why people keep recommending improved familiar...the familiar is still super squishy, most of their SLAs/Auras are very weak with low DCs that do not scale well, using a familiar to deliver touch attacks is a terrible idea when it's also your spellbook...there's really not much utility here.
| Shimnimnim |
Thanks for all the advice. Im leaning towards charm to try and be more useful out of combat...my question is, what happens when the hex wears off?
Lets say i were to charm a shopkeeper into giving us a small discount. Hex wears off afterwards, what happens?
Ice tomb : Where is the duration for this? Judging from the description im guessing it doesnt work on undead (since undead are immune to paralysis)?
I dont know why people keep recommending improved familiar...the familiar is still super squishy, most of their SLAs/Auras are very weak with low DCs that do not scale well, using a familiar to deliver touch attacks is a terrible idea when it's also your spellbook...there's really not much utility here.
True, super squishy. But here's the deal: Faerie dragon gets improved invisibility. That is very much protection that you might need, specially if a baddy recognizes your familiar as your spellbook. The little guy also casts with sorcerer levels. Which means it can use wands. You've opened up your spell list, and that is awesome. If you want utility there's really nothing better.
| Devilkiller |
Regarding the familiar, the big deal is wand (and possibly scroll) use to increase your spell output. Crafting those wands for half price would help the party afford them. You probably don't have the right feat set up for that though, and a GM so inclined can put a stop to it by severely limiting wealth and downtime.
You might want to take the "Make the GM give us some treasure and stop running all stuff immune to my powers" Hex. Then again, maybe your group enjoys toughing it out.
EDIT: Since your familiar is already a weak spot even if it isn't improved be sure to check out the Stone Familiar item, which you probably can't afford. It allows you to back up the spellbook aspect of the familiar.
| Devilkiller |
A lot of spells don't offer saving throws. A wise master also might want to avoid having the familiar use spells which target enemies to begin with since that's more likely to draw attacks on the familiar, which are rarely desirable.
Even the lowly wand of CMW which heals 2d8+3 can help out a lot if use in combination with your healing hex. 4d8+11 is pretty serious healing. If the Summoner puts an Ablative Barrier on the eidolon the healing practically doubles. This makes your familiar great in a support role. In one game I have a wand of Good Hope which my familiar uses in the first round of any combat which looks like it might be tough while my girlfriend's familiar uses a wand of Haste.
Something like a wand of Mirror Image might make your improved familiar a little more survivable than a regular familiar. I'm sure you get the idea by now. It is all predicated on having access to wands though. If you're low on gold and don't have Craft Wands it might be kind of lackluster.
Anyhow, I'm not really trying to push you into Improved Familiar, just covering some of the potential benefits and strategies since you seemed to wonder why people would invest in it. I'd love to give you some hex advice, but if the GM is running mostly "mindless" monsters it seems like an unfortunate game to play a Witch in, especially since you already have somebody focused on summoning (something else Witches can do OK at)
| Question |
Ok, so you mean use familairs with wands to get off multiple buffs in the first round?
I think that would only work for buffs that are 1 min/level though, since 1 round per level would be too short with the low CL of wands. A wand of haste would only last 5 rounds IIRC.
We do end up facing a variety of enemies, its just that since the BBEG is a lich, undead is going to feature prominently in it at some point (although we havent found any undead for a while now). We did ran into a demon last session that the DM said was immune to mind affecting effects plus an abberation that was also immune to mind affecting effects though...
We havent had to use many buffs though. Sometimes the summoner pops a haste and enlarges the eidolon, but otherwise the ninja and fighter can shred through pretty much anything with ease...im surprised at how easy most combats have been (for the party at least, its frustrating not being able to do anything other than misfortune mind immune enemies).
| Devilkiller |
Five rounds seems like plenty for most battles. That said, I wonder if your GM is adding immunity to monsters to avoid your hexes. Slumber in particular sometimes ends fights with disappointing quickness. After a Witch I was playing put a big monster to sleep one time we made a house rule getting rid of the Fort save on Coup de Grace. Slumber seemed more fun after that. If your GM is going to give stuff mysterious immunity otherwise something like that might be a decent compromise (at least IMO)
| Devilkiller |
Having lots of enemies is probably a better plan in general, but it could be possible that the GM wants to use some big monsters but feels discouraged from doing so by Slumber or similar powers. Of course no power is perfect, and a lot of the Witch's stuff is pretty situational.
Demons and aberrations aren't usually immune to mind-affecting stuff though, so it seemed suspicious to me when you said that you'd encountered a couple which were in a single session. It certainly could be legit, but if you already feel like Slumber and Evil Eye aren't useful and the GM is adding immunities to creatures because he doesn't like one or more of your hexes that seems like it could get frustrating. This is why I was thinking that maybe a toned down version which you actually get to use might be better.
Of course I'm not at your games and can't know what's going on for sure. I'm just guessing!