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A character with the arcane bond class feature may create a bond with any item he owns, either magical or mundane, as long as the item falls within the categories permitted by the arcane bond ability (the cost for bonding with a new item still applies). If a caster later wishes to upgrade an existing bonded item, he may do so for the cost (not price) of the final item as listed in the item's statblock.
For items which can be enhanced incrementally (such as weapons or a ring of protection), the caster must meet all prerequisites for the item as outlined in the item crafting rules. For example, a nonmagical bonded dagger can be enchanted to a +1 dagger for 1,000 gp instead of the normal 2,000 gp, but the caster must be at least 5th level (a prerequisite for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat). To upgrade the item further to a +2 dagger, the caster must have a caster level of 6 or higher (three times the item's enhancement bonus).
A bonded item that is enhanced must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. The final and total price of the item (not the cost) is used on the Fame chart to determine whether a caster can apply such an enhancement to a bonded item.
Am I correct in reading:
1. To upgrade the MW dagger to +1 the caster must be at least 5th level - So you can't upgrade your dagger until level 5? That's a long time to wait for a + 1 weapon if I'm reading this right. +1 weapons are always available to PFS characters and even if that weren't true the Fame 13 cost requirement would be met by about lvl 3.
Also:
2. The upgrade discount. I see threads mentioning a 1 time "first-only" cost discount but I can't find anything anywhere that states this rule.
Thanks!
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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** spoiler omitted **
Am I correct in reading:
1. To upgrade the MW dagger to +1 the caster must be at least 5th level - So you can't upgrade your dagger until level 5? That's a long time to wait for a + 1 weapon if I'm reading this right. +1 weapons are always available to PFS characters and even if that weren't true the Fame 13 cost requirement would be met by about lvl 3.
It says you must meet all prereqs "as outlined in the item crafting rules". In those rules (in the Core Rulebook), it says that you can bypass prereqs by increasing the Spellcraft DC by +5 per prereq bypassed. So if you've got a nice, solid Spellcraft bonus you can go ahead and get it earlier.
Also:
2. The upgrade discount. I see threads mentioning a 1 time "first-only" cost discount but I can't find anything anywhere that states this rule.Thanks!
Check the dates on those threads. The FAQ on arcane bonded items used to be different, allowing only the first enhancement to be discounted, but later got changed to the current wording.
Hope that helps!
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** spoiler omitted **
Am I correct in reading:
1. To upgrade the MW dagger to +1 the caster must be at least 5th level - So you can't upgrade your dagger until level 5? That's a long time to wait for a + 1 weapon if I'm reading this right. +1 weapons are always available to PFS characters and even if that weren't true the Fame 13 cost requirement would be met by about lvl 3.
It says you must meet all prereqs "as outlined in the item crafting rules". In those rules (in the Core Rulebook), it says that you can bypass prereqs by increasing the Spellcraft DC by +5 per prereq bypassed. So if you've got a nice, solid Spellcraft bonus you can go ahead and get it earlier.
Actually, the level 5 requirement is the need to be the level you can first normally gain the crafting feat itself (Craft Magic Arms and Armor), not due to a prereq for the crafting of the item. Unfortunately, this requirement is a hard limit written into the Arcane Bond class ability, and it would not be something you can avoid with an increase to the DC.
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So you can't just pay full item price to upgrade the bonded item whenever your Fame allows? You have to do for half price via "crafting"?
No, you can purchase a magical item using the normal rules and bond to it. You just can't get any discount on the purchase earlier than the level you'd gain the appropriate feat.
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I think I'll stray away from the Arcane Bonded Weapon. I don't get to play all that often and using a masterwork weapon for 15 or so sessions seems like too much of a pain.
12 scenarios, just to be sure.
I like the weapon option for a few reasons, but I'm curious why you wanted to do it.
Good point Derek: only losing 1k gp to pay full price for the first upgrade.
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I like the weapon option for a few reasons, but I'm curious why you wanted to do it.
Not to go off topic but... I really like the flavor of Hand of The Apprentice. I know I know, it isn't a popular choice. I was looking for a few plusses that a INT/STR wizard build that would eek out to making hitting more likely (So MAD though!).
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I'm actually kind of bummed out with this news. I was saving up to get my arcane bonded ring upgraded, and with this revelation it will have to wait til 7th level. Was gonna start with Ring of Protection +1, then progress to Ring of Invisibility/Ring of Protection +x/Ring of Force Shield. I can still do it, just will have to wait a little bit longer.
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Lame...
Where does it say that? I've read the guide several times now, and the FAQ looking for info on this and I see nothing that says an Arcane Bonded Object can't have more than one property on it, but it raises the cost of that additional property by +50%, as per the rules. Of course, you still must meet the prereqs as normal...
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Ok, I saw that too, but where does it say an Arcane Bonded Object cannot be upgraded with more than one property? Still not seeing it.A bonded item that is enhanced must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items.
Well, that is talking about arcane bonded objects, and the normal campaign rules for upgrading magic items and their restrictions prohibit custom items like you are proposing. Not seeing where the confusion comes from...
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Are there other campaign rules I should be aware of beside the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play v5.0 and the FAQ?
The guide, on page 8 under the Character Creation section, Step 5: Feats says that the magic item creation chapter is not legal, but then the FAQ says I can upgrade my bonded object. The specific example of upgrading weapons is used in the FAQ, and under the very same section (page 553 CRB) it talks about adding abilities to other items, albeit at +50% cost per property. Which is it?
I'm trying to understand the definition of "custom item" here as what I proposed is legal in the CRB, as above points out. The only real limitations I'm seeing are Fame, gold, and prereqs.
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Are there other campaign rules I should be aware of beside the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play v5.0 and the FAQ?
HERE is another helpful link. It's stickied at the top of the forum.
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That part on pg. 8 of the Guide tells you everything from Item Creation section of the CRB (I.e. pg.553) is illegal. Only the FAQ's on arcane bonded items and the legal upgrades open up tidbits from that section of the CRB. The tidbit is to upgrade numerical bonuses only (or create specific named items).
Adding multiple enhancements such as you are indicating is creating truly unique items, and can only be created by using said illegal section rules.
In general, if it's not in a table of items somewhere, it is nit viable.
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Really lame, now I'm beginning to remember why I haven't participated in Pathfinder Society Organized Play before now...
So basically, Arcane Bonded Object is useless to a wizard. A melee weapon is next to useless for a wizard as you will rarely hit anything with it, especially at higher levels. So what good is it to upgrade a weapon that is next to useless? It's just a waste of gold. Any other way, you have to save your money, forgoing any useful benefit that could be had as you level to wait until late game to get an item that will only be used for a level or 2 before retirement?
I think I'll go back to my home game...
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Really lame, now I'm beginning to remember why I haven't participated in Pathfinder Society Organized Play before now...
So basically, Arcane Bonded Object is useless to a wizard. A melee weapon is next to useless for a wizard as you will rarely hit anything with it, especially at higher levels. So what good is it to upgrade a weapon that is next to useless? It's just a waste of gold. Any other way, you have to save your money, forgoing any useful benefit that could be had as you level to wait until late game to get an item that will only be used for a level or 2 before retirement?
I think I'll go back to my home game...
An amulet is a wonderous item, and that's create able at 3rd....
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An amulet is a wonderous item, and that's create able at 3rd....Really lame, now I'm beginning to remember why I haven't participated in Pathfinder Society Organized Play before now...
So basically, Arcane Bonded Object is useless to a wizard. A melee weapon is next to useless for a wizard as you will rarely hit anything with it, especially at higher levels. So what good is it to upgrade a weapon that is next to useless? It's just a waste of gold. Any other way, you have to save your money, forgoing any useful benefit that could be had as you level to wait until late game to get an item that will only be used for a level or 2 before retirement?
I think I'll go back to my home game...
That distinction doesn't help at all, I'm afraid... The entire point of having an upgradable bonded object is to cheaply access beneficial magic items... PFSOP really takes the wind out of the sails...
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Don't let the door hit you on your way out.Really lame, now I'm beginning to remember why I haven't participated in Pathfinder Society Organized Play before now...
So basically, Arcane Bonded Object is useless to a wizard. A melee weapon is next to useless for a wizard as you will rarely hit anything with it, especially at higher levels. So what good is it to upgrade a weapon that is next to useless? It's just a waste of gold. Any other way, you have to save your money, forgoing any useful benefit that could be had as you level to wait until late game to get an item that will only be used for a level or 2 before retirement?
I think I'll go back to my home game...
Lets not be rude. They are entitled to their opinion.
I don't happen to agree that Arcane Bonded Object is useless. You can keep swapping it out every few levels for something new, for the total cost of 400gp and a ritual.
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I didn't say the ability was totally useless, only that aspect where PFSOP focuses on a melee weapon's upgrades is useless. The rest of the rules modification just makes the rest of the ability into a empty shell. Useful, but not to its intended potential...
By swapping it out every few levels, you are further limiting your resources that could otherwise be spent on UPGRADES... 400gp here, 400gp there, that could have been more spells for your spellbook, a few emergency scrolls or potions, but no, you wasted it on rebonding to another object... It's a good way to gimp your progress; not a good option at all, sorry.
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IMO, PFS doesn't do the skill justice.
Swapping out every few levels defeats the purpose; it's simply too expensive. However, I don't mind the penalty for changing for the "this is your special item" aspect - I assume you should focus on one item.
The caster level requirements, I think are redundant for organized play. You already have in place cost restrictions based upon prestige which is controlled by level. And the need to be able to cast the spell.
Overall, even at it's simplest, you lose alertness feat, improved initiative, possible scouting, improved action economy and many share spell options. just for one "pick any spell" option and maybe a cost reduction at high levels.
I agree the ring of invisibility is a good low level choice, well if level 7 is considered low.
I just have difficult thinking that wizards icon items are staves, wands and maybe rods or scepters, and wands are min caster level and non-economical and staffs are out until 11.
I think the powers that be were worried about single level dips or melee with caster levels to get cheaper items later for melee oriented aspects.
Overall, PFS does a decent job. You just picked something lack luster.
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The cost goes up with your level.
That makes it even more crappy...
One could always have a wand as their bonded item, Wands also require caster level 5th, just like weapons, however when an arcane bond wand loses all of it's charges, you can simply craft a new wand.
Alas, you can't craft wands in PFS, which means you have to buy a new wand, and spend the time and gold to rebond to it... A waste of your gold...
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One could always have a wand as their bonded item, Wands also require caster level 5th, just like weapons, however when an arcane bond wand loses all of it's charges, you can simply craft a new wand.Alas, you can't craft wands in PFS, which means you have to buy a new wand, and spend the time and gold to rebond to it... A waste of your gold...
You cannot craft any magical items in PFS, unless they are your arcane bond.
You bond with a mundane wand, and then you can upgrade it as per the faq to have charges by the crafting rules, and when it runs out of charges, it becomes a mundane wand once more.
From the arcane bond class feature:
If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Uh... as a bonded object, you can "craft" the wand again to reset it's charges. As it is again a bonded stick, you can even choose a different spell to "craft." Meaning, you pay half to get the wand.
I didn't ever realize that Bonded Objects only cost half in PFS play, as if they were crafted by the character. This is good information for me.
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A wand (or weapon for that matter) is much too visible a target for sundering or other shenanigans. A ring or amulet are much more difficult to take from a character, which is why I chose Ring. It's small and easily concealable under gloves. It's my Precious! I'm around GM's that utilize the full spectrum of combat maneuvers to take our party down. We, as players, do the same...
However, explained as you have Dylos, it would be a viable path. Not for me, but to others I guess.
I just HATE the restrictive nature of organized play. I did Living Greyhawk for awhile and tried Living Forgotten Realms, utter failures in my opinion. While PFS has made improvements to the aforementioned campaigns, I still hate the exclusionary mindset behind living campaigns... Unfortunately, for the forseeable future it's my only option to play, which has me really thinking about switching to another game until the group reforms after tax season...
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Allowing your players to go crazy with item creation -- especially Leadership to get companions to make stuff for you -- really quickly throws off the wealth by level of the party and trivializes encounters.
Yep, that's what broke high level play in LG.
Aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a feat for arcane bonded casters to be able to pick "any" item as a bonded option that has "craftable rules" even with more extensive penalties for changing.
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Here is a question. When the Wizard is 1st level, he has a bonded ring given to him. (or whatever item he chooses) Can he make that into a magical item down the road or does he have to buy a magical item and then bond it to himself?
He can upgrade the initial item, when he has gained enough levels to enchant that type of item.
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Here is a question. When the Wizard is 1st level, he has a bonded ring given to him. (or whatever item he chooses) Can he make that into a magical item down the road or does he have to buy a magical item and then bond it to himself?He can upgrade the initial item, when he has gained enough levels to enchant that type of item.
Just asking, does this means that if I play a wizard with a ring as an arcane bond, I could upgrade say ring to a Ring of Freedom of Movement, for just the cost price of 20,000gp ?
Edit: Upgrade at Caster level 7th. Level at which a wizard would have access to Forge Ring and freedom of movement, Requirements for Ring of FoM.