Ok, there was a … Oh let’s call it a ‘heated discussion’ in our group a while back. In our group we were finding offensive casters were underperforming except at clearing mooks. Bosses and even decent lieutenants tend to be builds with templates/archtypes/custom whatever. Our GM likes to make special things (which is good, I’m not complaining). So they often have very good saves, immunities, and/or SR. So when you cast a spell you have 3 or more high hurdles just to have it work decent. {{ Yes, I know you can be a buff caster but that wasn’t this conversation. }}
So we were talking about ways to still be effective as an offensive caster. First, we need to put more effort into the ‘monster knowledges’ and scrying/scouting/spying to know what the defenses of the opposition are. Second, we basically ended up with 2 basic concepts that seemed likely to work.
Super SoD/SoS – Really go for the very high save and high spell penetration fight ending spells. Sure between the SR and saves you might have to cast it 3 times. But the fight is over.
Pros: Obviously eventually the opposition will fail a save and you won the fight.
Cons: Some fights you will have absolutely zero effect. Most of the SoD spells don’t do anything if they make the save.
Mister Always Works – Mostly get the nearly unstoppable spells like Acid Arrow. No save and no spell resistance. Get the capability to change the element to whichever works. If you plan for it with a few feats and decent dex you should almost never fail ranged touch attacks. Or whatever your strategy is for the almost unstoppable spells you pick.
Pros: Well, you will almost always accomplish something.
Con: Well, you won’t usually accomplish a lot.
I’m not real happy with either option.
Super SoD seems most workable for a primary offensive caster. But I’ve always been kinda leery of relying too heavily on SoD spells. Super big climactic fight? Oh he rolled a 2 on the first save, all over. Or even if it is not instant. If on round 3 the BBEG fails the save against your SoD spell everything the other guys did for those 3 rounds is basically negated. They only served to keep him busy until you got around to finishing things up. Doesn’t matter if they had him poisoned, surrounded, tangled up in nets, and down to 10% HP OR if he was in perfect health and seems to be winning. Oh, he failed a save I win. Seems rather spotlight hog.
Mister Always Works, seem seems perfectly legit. But also seems like it might be boring. Ok, I took off another 3% of his hit points. Nothing exciting here. Yawn. But I could be wrong, I haven’t tried it yet.
What other ideas have we missed? How would you approach it? Anything you folks want to add to the ‘discussion’ on this?
Seems to me an offensive caster who clears mooks works well. Fireball the minions in the other room or around the BBEG. Now the other characters don't have to fight them first. Change the damage type by feat etc. as needed. Add in conditions...dazed, etc to multiply the effect. Grab selective spell so you can blast without fear of hammering your friends.
When you hit the BBEG buff your party if you don't see a weakness matching your spells. Most of the boss fights are after several mook fights that are supposed to drain your resources. If all they drain are a few offensive spells the BBEG will resist anyway you have still done your job.
Either of the above concepts could also have a fireball or 2 for mook clearing.
Yes, buffing and summoning are possibilities. But that wasn't the point of this discussion.
Again, this to make an offensive caster that hits hard to affect bad guys with spells.
It's not so much I don't want to hear it as it isn't what our group really needs. We are typically oversupplied with full casters and hybrid casters. Clearing mooks very quickly has so far never been even a slight problem.
We sometimes do not have a single primary martial character and often our hybrid characters do not really do extensive weapon damage when the combination with spells isn't possible/likely.
Having 2, 3, or even 4 casters super buffing the most martial hybrid is extrememly wasteful of spells and isn't always all that effective since you can stack only so many effects.
Yes, "have some one build a martial" that would work. It isn't what we want to do for a variety of reasons. Primarily, though most of us just don't like playing a purely martial character for any real length of time. Therefore the subject was to try and get a primary caster to be able to effect the creatures that are difficult to effect with magic.
You could try summonings and battlefield control. Hold the enemy in place with some webs, fogs, black tentacles, etc while another summons some pouncing smiting kitties.
My opinion: Buffs > Battlefield Control > Debuffs > Save-or-Die > Blockbuster > whatever else.
Reasoning: With buffs you don't have to worry about resistance or saves, the spell always goes off and it almost always has an effect; with battlefield control sometimes you do have to worry about resistance or saves and the spell sometimes doesn't go off or doesn't have the effect you intend(I'd consider summoning under this category); with debuffs you do worry about resistance or saves, but you only have to disable or cripple the enemy, not kill them; and you have already listed the pros and cons of save-or-die vs blockbuster.
Of course I am always open to other opinions.
If it's relevant: I think SoD would be fun for a short while but then get really boring, if you're basically deciding the combat on the roll of one die.
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im a big fan of reflex targeting spells and spell that effect the area around the target preventing them from getting a save or SR. thats why i think agressive conjuration spec mages are the best choice for a caster.
conjuration is, imo the most op of all the schools. it has an answer for every situation, truely impressive for a "god" style wizard who uses an evocation or 2 for mooks, even though conjuration has answers for mooks also.
stone call, acid spray, conjure deadfall, create pit (acid pit) and a few other real good ones.
Depending on what the GM sends after you, you could perhaps try focusing on Enervation. Sure you won't kill your BBEG right away (more than likely), but you will lower his health and his saves making him easier pickings for other spells.