Fellows I have something of an issue. My friends and I have only been playing tabletop RPGs for almost a year and thus we lack experience. I am the GM for the group and Ive been having a ball writing adventures and the like for my friends.that being said, I've had one problem for the entire time we have been playing.
My friend has been playing a half orc barbarian named Grognack, and literally any combat encounter I put forth is completely dominated by this madman.For the most part I try to keep the CR for my encounters at 1 or 2 above what the book recommends just to provide a constant challenge.
When grognack doesn't show up, the group has to think a little bit (which is obviously the intention) and the combat stays fun. So my question to the community is this. How do I challenge this grognack without simply putting something impossible in his way. (By the way the group is about levels 4-6 at the moment)
I have considered throwing incorporeal creatures at him but the group isn't really prepared for that (not strong enough yet) what do you guys recommend? I'll gladly answer any questions if you guys ask them.
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Indeed, we need more info on the build, but any effects that attack Will should be sure to make the barbarian's life miserable. Spellcasting enemies thus are ideal for this, and if you want to be extra mean try throwing a dominate effect on the barbarian. The latter may be TOO difficult for the party to deal with, though, so you may want to stick to less...debilitating...will-targeting effects. However, if you do use a caster enemy against them make sure he/she has a minion retnue good enough to keep the barbarian off him/her long enough for him/her to get his/her will-targeting save or sucks off. Also, giving said caster and/or some his/her minions a very good initiative would also be advisable.
A flying spellcaster with lots of area of effect spells requiring Ref saves should take some wind out of his enthusiasm.
Or perhaps a spellcaster or monster that can dominate person. Nothing puts the fear of the gods into a party like having the party's murder machine turn on them, and they have to put him down or incapacitate him.
These are all pretty cool suggestions. What do you guys want to know about him?
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I'll second swarms, as long as you think the rest of the party can handle them. What classes are the other PCs?
Other options:
-disarm him
-Crane Style monk
-miss chance instead of AC (so concealment, invisibility, etc.)
-focused fire from archers/scorching ray/etc. Perfectly reasonable that the enemy would focus on the berserker murdering their frontliners.
Send in arother barb to crush him.
He can dish it out lets see if he can take it.
Oh he took it alright... He took a crit from another half orc barb I threw at him and still had like 20 health left.
The other PCs currently play: a sorc, used to have a rogue (RIP), a sword and board fighter,a druid/summoner and a dual wielding ranger (he is literally worthless)
These are all pretty cool suggestions. What do you guys want to know about him?
Mostly, we need to know if he was built to get a good will save. I could easily see a half orc barbarian being a problem at that level if it is well optimized, since there is: +2 base save, +2 while raging, +1 from sacred tattoo, and maybe +1 from some trait. I am just going to assume nothing was put into or taken out of wisdom though.
With all that, he could circumstantially have a better will save than the sorcerer. Druid probably has them beat, but that is hardly the point here.
So basically, what IS his will save?
Grognack: 54 HP total. 18 AC (non rage) 14 touch, 15 flatfooted. Fort: +8 ref: 5 will: 1. He's level 4 and I have avoided giving him much gear at all. He uses a masterwork greataxe and wears unenchanted scale mail. The only magic item he has is a ring of protection +1.
swarms and incorporeals he couldn't even hurt.
Throw him against a swashbuckler or crane style monk, might frustrate him a bit.
You could exploit the hell out of that +1 will save.
Something big that grapples will take out his ability to use his primary weapon. Hopefully he has a dagger as backup, or else he'll have to punch his way free or wait for the rest of the group to save his bacon.
Chain a bear trap to a 200lb rock, you know the rest.
On the Will save thing, you might try monsters that dominate, charm, or put others to sleep. You said you were throwing things of +1 to +2 CR at them. Gibbering Mouthers and Lamias are in that range, and are decent creatures with mind-effects which might have some chance of boggling Grognack. Careful with the lamia, though --- it can drain anybody's Wisdom.
The lowest CR available for a vampire is 6. They can dominate Grognack.
Obviously it's time for The AntAgonizer, the wizard Grelok and the Man-Saurian to team up against Grognak. Perhaps the three of them can release the Virgin Eater from its lair and then attack Grognak while he is distracted?
You forgot to account for the help of The Mechanist in fighting them off!
Have at thee, villain!
Alright thank you guys for the suggestions. I honestly think I'm going to try to exploit his will save a bit. Not toouch mind you but just enough to make him feel mortal and not like the god he is in basic combat. (Although one time in a recent session he did almost die. He chopped through a wooden door and bursted in, and once inside was immediately flanked by two level 5 rogues... Oh the glorious sneak damage)
And its actually interesting that you guys suggest mind magic, because I was planning on throwing in a gnome trickster type mage into the fray eventually In hopes to insert a recurring npc to become the most annoying son of a b~&*# the group has ever seen.
I would also suggest a few shadows in a crypt, three at most. My party just dealt with this and they had a blast even though it was quite a challenge. They do STR damage and are incorporeal, so you'd want your party to have a way of dealing with incorporeal (or have a cleric and a paladin along with you -- :D). Nothing demoralizes a martial class more than draining their primary attack stat. If you have casters who can do damage, incorporeal bad guys are a good way to let your casters shine when martials have been dominating in combat situations, since that early on magic weapons aren't as likely.
Hold person and confusion should be funny. High dr monsters should take him a bit busy. Maybe a summoner?
Well actually we are still a bunch of noobs and he didn't have any reason to get the superstition because I havent thrown hardly any will saves at the group. And ive also considered using shadows, but then I feared a TPK. But who knows... Maybe it's worth the risk.
Something with DR?
Or a flying aracne Archer that uses mind control magic and oh its a vampire... No but these suggestions have definitely given me food for thought. Thank you
bear in mind though that the moment he picks teh Superstition rage power, targeting saves will not be such effective. I do not know his system mastery, but most barbarians already have superstition by lvl 4.
Ah, but that is exploitable in all sorts of new ways! Sure, his will save is great. It would also be great against the heal spell sent by a teammate after he gets hit by another pair of rogues (maybe make the gnome trickster part of a thieves' guild, so he can have a constant supply of them?)
Think of how glorious it would be to actually make him have to debate whether he should drop rage to get healed, or if he should keep it up so the loss of temp hit points doesn't kill him.
Even if you don't rely on that scenario, it would still likely make him hold back a bit before he charges in raging, since he would have to wait for buffs first.
Barbarians at 5th lvl have Improved Uncanny Dodge, meaning that flanking for sneak attack will be very difficult (unless every encounter is a CR equal to APL +3 at least). If he does not have it, it will have probably be replaced with another even better feature, like the DR/- of the Inv. Rager.
That being said, death from physical damage is the most common danger and should not be taken lighly. However, I do not see how this is a problem to the barbarian specifically. Healing spells idealy should be cast between battles. If there is a serious need of them in-battle, usually something has gone wrong way in a way that superstition cannot be blamed for.
Of course and it has drawbacks. But it is also an extremely powerful ability that it would be foolish not to take advantage of. From the moment you get it, you block all the shortcuts for getting you out of the battle, like dominate and other Will-affecting spells. Instead, they need to drop point to point your impressive HP down to zero. While you pound on them with your big sword with great Strenght. That is certainly an improvement, isn't it?
That would certainly be the case...except for the fact that, as Ausk Valrosh has said, this player is a noob that likes to run head first into problems. So it is not so much a problem with the design of barbarians or superstition, but rather a flaw in the strategy and playstyle of the player.
Essentially: noobs are the ones most likely to get into situations where they need healing that instant or they will die.
Also, depending on how you build it, superstition might not even be that necessary. I already showed how this character could have been built with one of the best will saves of the party at this level while raging.
You mean five foot tunnels in the sence that everyone is single file?