Can I take improved two-wep fighting with Multiweapon Fighting?

[Will Pratt]

Multi attack says

Multiweapon Fighting wrote:

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Can I take Improved two-wep Fighting and get an extra attack with my off hand weapons since it counts as two-weapon fighting.

[Master of the Dark Triad]

Yes, after multi weapon fighting is taken, then you take improved and greater two weapon fighting as normal.

[Archaeik]

ITWF grants a single attack with a single offhand weapon.

[James Risner]

I don't believe you can take ITWF with 3 or more arms.

[Archaeik]

James Risner wrote:

I don't believe you can take ITWF with 3 or more arms.

While I generally agree, the problem comes in when having TWF converted to MWF prevents you from taking other feats with TWF as a prerequisite.

It's quite unreasonable to deny, say Two Weapon Defense, because TWF was "replaced".

I find the language suitably ambiguous as to whether "replaces" also means "counts as". The issue certainly needs clarification.

[Gator the Unread]

Multiweapon fighting states that it "replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms".

Improved Two Weapon Fighting states "addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty".

Yes, they can be taken together; Multiweapon fighting replaces two weapon fighting, so as long as the character has the other prerequisites, they can go together.

However...:

It can be argued, however, that taking Improved Two Weapon Fighting only gives you one extra, off-hand attack. So an four armed warrior with four daggers (say, BAB +6) would get their primary arm attacks (+6/+1), their off-hand attack with the first off-hand (+6/+1), and then their other off-hand attacks (+6, and +6), for a total of 6 attacks.

I think this line of thought is malarkey, overly nit-picky, and just plain annoying. Methinks you should get an extra attack with all the off-hand arms; yer paying for the feat chain and the extra arms, so you should get the bonuses. I think that there should have been a clause or sentence in one of the feats detailing this, but that its way too small of an issue to bother with now.

[Grimmy]

Gator the Unread wrote:

It can be argued, however, that taking Improved Two Weapon Fighting only gives you one extra, off-hand attack. So an four armed warrior with four daggers (say, BAB +6) would get their primary arm attacks (+6/+1), their off-hand attack with the first off-hand (+6/+1), and then their other off-hand attacks (+6, and +6), for a total of 6 attacks.

I think this line of thought is malarkey, overly nit-picky, and just plain annoying. Methinks you should get an extra attack with all the off-hand arms; yer paying for the feat chain and the extra arms, so you should get the bonuses. I think that there should have been a clause or sentence in one of the feats detailing this, but that its way too small of an issue to bother with now.

Wait, hold on. I might be missing something but this looks all wrong.

Are you talking something with many arms like a marilith, or vestigial arms?

[Grimmy]

I don't get why none of the attacks in your example get penalties for TWF. I see the marilith and xill do not but they have Multiweapon Mastery (ex).

[RogueShadow3]

I think the numbers were just place holders to illustrate the point. Given the wording of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting "Benefit: In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon." It seems you'd get an extra attack, after the first from the previous feat, with any off-hand weapon. It doesn't specify how many off-hands it applies to. I've seen Mariliths built this way.