Dragon crushing an Earth Elemental


Rules Questions


Alright folks, my DM have a dilemma - not that we don't agree with eachother necessarily, we just don't know how to rule (I DM the group as well for other campaigns).

I'm playing a lich wizard(transmuter) so I have the Change Shape ability. A white dragon flew in and crushed the lich (gain the grappled/pinned condition); My idea was to use Change shape (since it's a Spell like ability, I need not cast it I can change into an earth elemental and earth glide out from underneath his claw. Thoughts?

One idea is the dragon uses his body weight (only) and I'm crushed between his belly and the ground (in which case it *could* work); Another idea is the dragon could've used it's claw to wrap around the lich, in which case the claw prevents the earth claw. Crush doesn't specify and the grapple method.

RAW I'd say I couldn't; Spirit I'd say I could.


The Crush attack specifically says that it gives you (or can give you) the pinned condition, which is clearly defined:

A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus.. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.


gergLeft wrote:
I'm playing a lich wizard(transmuter) so I have the Change Shape ability. A white dragon flew in and crushed the lich (gain the grappled/pinned condition); My idea was to use Change shape (since it's a Spell like ability, I need not cast it I can change into an earth elemental and earth glide out from underneath his claw. Thoughts?
Spell-Like Abilities wrote:

Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

->no components

->requires a standard action
->otherwise functions just like a spell (including provokes AoO)

Pinned wrote:
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus.. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.

->Cannot cast spells that require somatic/material components, Spell-likes don't

->Otherwise casting spell requires concentration check (DC 10+Dragon CMB+4 or 5 depending on elemental body being used)

=You can do it but you need to make a concentration check, and the dragon gets an attack of opportunity unless you defensive cast it(an additional concentration check).


Assuming you could change shape while pinned, earth elementals aren't immune to grappling, and even if they were that immunity isn't acquired by someone using Change Shape as it isn't one of the listed benefits gained by elemental body.


blahpers wrote:
Assuming you could change shape while pinned, earth elementals aren't immune to grappling, and even if they were that immunity isn't acquired by someone using Change Shape as it isn't one of the listed benefits gained by elemental body.

Erm...

Elemental Body I wrote:
Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet and the ability to earth glide.


...and? Earth glide doesn't grant immunity to grapple/pin.


blahpers wrote:
...and? Earth glide doesn't grant immunity to grapple/pin.

I thought you were saying Earth Glide wasn't one of the benefits applied by Elemental Body. I'm guessing by your response I read your post wrong.


As a rules question, the answer is clear as stated in the original post.
No, grapple is grapple, and you cannot earth glide out of it.

Could I imagine a situation, where it would be a cool way to escaping a dragon that landed on top of you? Sure. Would I allow it based on that? Most likely. But I might disallow it, if the player had a habit of stretching abilities outside what they do per the rules.


Rynjin wrote:
blahpers wrote:
...and? Earth glide doesn't grant immunity to grapple/pin.
I thought you were saying Earth Glide wasn't one of the benefits applied by Elemental Body. I'm guessing by your response I read your post wrong.

No worries.


I suggest you try to touch the dragon( in apropriating places only)with your cold cold fingers, dimension door away or take pleasure in the fact that death is only a minor setback in your present condition:)

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