It could effectively be more a gunslinger / cavalier. It's a grit-like based character, with custom «deeds», and a challenge-like ability.
At the beginning, I used these two class to create the fencer, but Elghinn is probably right about the stand alone aspect of the class. I customized and reworked it so much...
However, the base of this class was a mechanical hybrid, so I proposed it here as a MCA, with ability trade and the typical format of MCA.
If you think it doesn't look like a MCA, we can rework it (replacing fencing style by something more similar to a cavalier's order could be a good way to do it) or we can remove it from the tread. I have personally seen other MCA that were very different from their primary and secondary class (the Mutant Hag is mechanically and thematically unique, for instance), but the fencer is always perceived as a Base class (we have a paizo's swashbuckler coming soon), so I understand this theme can be problematic for a MCA.
I think there's plenty here to work with, and reworking it is a good idea. I think we can still go can still go with Cav/Gun but we'll see as we move ahead. Incoporating a new Order, and I think keeping mount would be good too. We could turn this into a Musketeer style MCA (as in the 3 Musketeers) who wields a dueling blade and a fire arm (restricted to only one-handed firearms), rides a horse, and has deeds for both his dueling blade and his firearm. In this case, Gun/Cav may be better, but I'll take a look and see what I can come up with. I'll use your Fencer as the base to draw things from, and try to streamline and incoporate Cavalier aspects into it.
@Kelazan: Nice to see flexibility on the treatment of your concept.
@Elghinn, does this specifically need the horse? I'd rather see an option for a non/mount/infantry option as well as mounted.
# Planar Avatar
Looks good. The part under spells "The planar avatar’s outsider counts as an eidolon for the purpose of these spells’ effects." is a little confusing - maybe it would be more elegant to simply call the planar form an eidolon. But there are reasons not too as well. This is just a quibble.
# Fencer
Overall, this feels like a powered-down swashbuckler. It lacks any way to improve AC. The Duel ability is less limited than precise strike but can only be used a few times per day - when not in a Duel the fencer is almost useless (like a cavalier, admittedly). It gains many abilities over levels, but the abilities are fairly minor and many rely on limited panache points. Sure, it does gain more skill points and better saves, but if this is to hold the "front line" spot in a party it also needs to be better on defense.
@Duel. What this class needs is something to keep it alive. Maybe if the AC penalty for Duel was reversed into a bonus. It doesn't make all that much sense as a simulation, but cinematically an ability that gives opponents an incentive to respect the duel seems like a very good idea.
@Bravado: Referencing the court bard seems a bit too obscure for me; better to just cut and paste the rules text and mention the cout bard in the §15 addendum. Same is true of @Throat Treat later.
@Denouncing Invective - I'd make this an (Ex) effect that duplicates these spells, not a spell effect.
Having 4 lvl 20 abilities seems a bit excessive - try and move some of these down in levels.
Other notes:
Not keen on a mount, but something more akin to the orders (and less ranger combat styles) would be nice.
Seems people don't like the mount. So, I'll look into either not including it (swap out), or give an option between mount and something else. Then there's the option for a mounted "fencer".
I think the current Fencer really is a stand alone base class, but we can turn it into an MCA, by plumbing it for unique class features to incorporate into the CAv/Gun (or Gun/CAv) framework.
We'll for sure keep the Duel aspect, as it plays on the Cavalier's challenge, then incorporate aspects of the Gunslinger, such as the grit, deeds (both firearm and sword related), and gunsmithing. The Order of the the Powder and Ball may be useful here (see wiki), but I think another one may need to be created to incorporate a different less "mount-related" aspect of the gunslinger.
Well a unique order that works with grit could help.
Bravado :
A fencer can use mockery and provocation to undermine the confidence of enemies who hear it, causing them to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear and charm effects as long as the bard continues performing. This penalty increases by –1 at 5th level and every six levels thereafter. Bravado is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses audible components.
About the Denouncing Invective, I totally agree with you Starfox...I don't even know why it wasn't already listed as an Extraordinary ability.
The Throat Treat is a 3rd Party manoeuver I included in some homebrew class. My bad, the reference is obscure and is linked to my own «house rule book».
Here is the throat treat mechanic :
When you successfully initiate a throat treat, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the throat threat, release the throat threat as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the throat threat, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. Your target remains flatfooted against you for as long as you maintain the throat threat. Unlike a grapple, while you throat threat a creature you can only perform one other action, a vital strike. You can use any slashing or piercing weapon to perform this attack, even if it wouldn't be allowed in grapple.
While maintaining a throat threat, you may make a single devastating attack, as an immediate action if your target attempts any action that you are aware of, or if any of your target’s allies provoke an attack of opportunity from you or enter your threatened area. This attack automatically hits and scores a critical hit against your flat-footed opponent and your target must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be stunned for one round. Your opponent may make a Stealth skill check to attempt an action without your noticing, including a move action that gets away from your throat threat, but you gain a +5 bonus on the opposed Perception check to notice. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to throat threat. You can only throat threat a target your own size or one size category smaller than you.
About the 20th level flourishes, I tried to keep the deeds progression, but this resulted in a lot of dead levels and an overdose of 1st level abilities. However, we can try to move some other ability, like duel or the nimble ability, to put the deeds/flourishes back at 19th level as the gunslinger.
Overall, this feels like a powered-down swashbuckler. It lacks any way to improve AC. The Duel ability is less limited than precise strike but can only be used a few times per day - when not in a Duel the fencer is almost useless (like a cavalier, admittedly). It gains many abilities over levels, but the abilities are fairly minor and many rely on limited panache points. Sure, it does gain more skill points and better saves, but if this is to hold the "front line" spot in a party it also needs to be better on defense.
I have to disagree with you on this point. The fencer is a good defensive class. The ability to focus only on Dexterity for offence allow a very good touch AC and an impressive low level AC. During the character progression, the Nimble ability provides +5 additional dodge bonus to AC and the «En Guarde» flourishes allow the fencer to add his Charisma modifier to AC as a dodge bonus against the target of his Duel. In addition, the Fencer receives Uncanny dodge to avoid critical lost of AC if flat-footed and gains some other defensive mechanics, as the Parade flourishes or the global attack reduction provided by Bravado. He can also provides support to his party using Demanding Duel or Provocation to nerf his opponent offence and defence.
While he must use Panache with moderation, rapier and other typical swashbuckling weapons have very good critical range and panache should replenish easily (at least, more easily than a gunslinger's grit). This fencer is a controller/combat support with good damage burst if using Duel. If he doesn't reach the AC level of a sword and shield fighter, he is a lot more versatile.
OK, here's the rework of Keazan's Fencer class. Name can use some work I think, but it'll do for now. The fencer has a LOT of abilities, and with the swaps avaiable, and tryig to keep it primarily a cavalier, I tried to incorporate as much as I could, and focused on wht I felt would serve as solid core abilities for the MCA. I also removed the Throat Threat mechanic from the renamed Subtle Cut deed, due to its unneccessary complications and just simplified it. Another optin is to incorporate the coup de grace mechanic into the deed instead. If we did that, we'd likely need to swap Subtle Cut (maybe rename it Deadly Cut) and Denouncng Invective.
SWAPS
Mount/Tactician/Greater Tactician/Master Tactician = Deeds, grit (Cha, regain with firearm or dueling weapon), gunsmith, weapon finesse
Heavy weapon proficiency = Nimble
Cavalier’s charge = Duelist’s charge
Expert trainer = Daunting swordsman
Banner = Blade elegance
Mighty charge = As duelist’s charge
Greater Banner = Saving slash
Supreme Charge = As duelist’s charge
Elegant swordsmen move with a grace unmatched by most foes, parrying blows and countering attacks with swift thrusts of their blades. Unlike most cavalier’s, these combatants tend to wear light armor, and leap and tumble into the fray with both sword and pistol in hand. Elegant swordsmen dash across the battlefield taunting their foes, while encouraging their companions to greater heights. The elegant swordsman thrives in melee combat, where his skill with the blade allows him to make sudden attacks against clumsy foes and to cripple opponents with particularly well-placed thrusts of the blade. Clever and often known for their thirst for adventure, elegant swordsmen tend to be more dexterous and light on their feet than their armored fighting cousins. Relying on their wits, they often prefer to negotiate their way out of situations rather than fight. Don’t mistake parley for weakness, however. When pressed, elegant swordsmen are formidable opponents unmatched in one-on-one combat.
Primary: Cavalier.
Secondary: Gunslinger.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The elegant swordsman selects three gunslinger skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills. The elegant swordsman gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The elegant swordsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the dueling sword and one-handed firearms. An elegant swordsman is also proficient with light and medium armor, and with bucklers.
Challenge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except that when the elegant swordsman uses a dueling weapon or a one-handed firearm against the target of his challenge, and is wearing light or no armor, he gains a +2 penalty to his Armor Class against attacks directed at him by the target of his challenge. A dueling weapon is any light or one-handed piercing weapon, but also includes the dueling sword.
Gunsmith: At 1st level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s gunsmith ability, but gains either a dragon pistol or a pistol as his starting firearm. This ability, finesse duelist, deeds, and grit replace the cavalier’s mount, tactician, greater tactician, and master tactician.
Weapon Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, an elegant swordsman gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and adds the dueling sword to the list of weapons that the feat benefits.
Nimble (Ex): At 2nd level, a cavalier gains the gunslinger’s nimble ability. This ability replaces the cavalier’s heavy armor proficiency.
Deeds: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s deeds ability and gains access to 1s level deeds. At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, an elegant swordsman gains access to each subsequent level of deeds up to 15th level deeds at 17th level.
In addition, the elegant swordsman swaps seven of the gundslinger’s deeds for the following deeds.
Swordsman’s Flair (Ex): At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman wields his weapons with flair and elegance and adds 1 point of Charisma bonus (if any) per elegant swordsman level as a circumstance bonus to her attack rolls while wielding a dueling weapon. If an elegant swordsman is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus. The elegant swordsman must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. This deed replaces the quick clear deed.
Endless Bravado (Ex): At 5th level, an elegant swordsman can use taunts and insults to undermine the confidence of his opponents that hear him. The elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point as a move action, causing his opponent to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear and charm effects for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. This penalty increases by –1 at 11th level, and again at 17th level. At 10th level, an elegant swordsman can use this deed as a swift action. This deed replaces the pistol-whip deed.
Charming Ruse (Ex): At 5th level, an elegant swordsman’s self-confidence and natural charm impress his opponents. An elegant swordsman adds 1/2 his elegant swordsman level to his Bluff check when he attempts a feint with a dueling weapon. The elegant swordsman must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. If the elegant swordsman spends 1 grit point, he can attempt a feint as a move action. This deed replaces the utility shot deed.
Instant Riposte (Ex): At 9th level, an elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point to counterattack an opponent as an immediate action. Whenever an opponent attacks the elegant swordsman in melee combat, the elegant swordsman can make a single counterattack against the opponent at his highest attack bonus. This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity the opponent may provoke by entering the elegant swordman’s threatened squares. In addition, the target is considered flat-footed against this attack. This deed replaces the startling shot deed.
Precise Thrust (Ex): At 9th level, whenever the elegant swordsman makes a single melee attack with a dueling weapon as part of a standard action, a charge, or a spring attack, he can spend 1 grit point as a free action to deal extra damage to his opponent. This extra damage is equal to 3d6 at 9th level, plus 1d6 points of damage every four levels beyond 9th, to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level. This damage is considered “precision” damages. Should the elegant swordsman score a critical hit with a precision thrust, this extra damage is not multiplied. If the attack misses, the elegant swordsman only deals minimum precision damage. This deed replaces the targeting deed.
Subtle Cut (Ex): At 13th level, whenever the elegant swordsman confirms a critical hit with a dueling weapon against an opponent, he can spend 1 grit point to make an Intimidate check against the opponent’s CMD as an immediate action. If the Intimidate check is successful, the elegant swordsman presses the tip of his weapon against the throat of his opponent. The opponent can either choose to surrender, or the elegant swordsman can roll his critical damage as normal, but increases the critical multiplier of his weapon by one. For example, if the weapon has a x2 critical multiplier, it is increased to x3 for this attack. If the check fails, the attack is considered a normal attack, and the elegant swordsman deals normal damage. This deed replaces the bleeding wound deed.
Denouncing Invective (Ex): At 17th level, an elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point as a standard action to emulate one of the following spell’s effects: denounce, malicious spite, or utter contempt. The save DC of these effects is equal to 10 + 1/2 the elegant swordsman’s class level + the elegant swordsman’s Charisma modifier. This deed replaces the menacing shot deed.
Duelist’s Charge: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman learns to make more accurate charge attacks on foot while wielding a dueling weapon or one-handed firearm. The elegant swordsman receives a +4 bonus on melee attack rolls on a charge while wielding a dueling weapon or one-handed firearm (instead of the normal +2). In addition, the elegant swordsman does not suffer any penalty to his AC after making a charge attack while wielding a dueling weapon or one-handed firearm. This ability replaces cavalier’s charge.
Grit: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s grit ability, except that elegant swordsman uses his Charisma to determine the number of girt points he gains each day. In addition, an elegant swordsman can use a dueling weapon in addition to his firearm to regain grit.
Daunting Swordsman (Ex): At 4th level, an elegant swordsman learns to use his swordsmanship to great effect. The elegant swordsman receives a bonus equal to 1/2 his elegant swordsman level whenever he uses Intimidate against the target of his challenge. In addition, he can use Intimidate to demoralize the target of his challenge as a move action. At 7th level, he can use Intimidate to demoralize the target of his challenge as a swift action.
Blade Elegance (Ex): At 5th level, a fencer can select one specific type of dueling weapon. He can add his Dexterity modifier instead of his Strength modifier on damage rolls when using that type of weapon. The fencer can not multiply his Dexterity modifier on damage roll when using a two-handed weapon. At 10th level, 15th level and 20th level, an elegant swordsman can change his chosen dueling weapon. This ability replaces banner.
Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the can also choose grit feats as a bonus feat.
Mighty Charge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the elegant swordsman gains this ability when wielding a dueling weapons or one-handed firearm during a charge on foot.
Saving Slash (Ex): At 14th level, when wielding a dueling weapon, an elegant swordsman can use an immediate action to try deflecting a melee critical hit targeting him, reducing its damage to that of a normal hit, with a 25% chance of success. This does not stack with the fortification special ability of magical armor or similar effects. This ability replaces greater banner.
Supreme Charge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the elegant swordsman gains this ability when wielding a dueling weapons or one-handed firearm during a charge on foot.
Table: Elegant Swordsman
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Challenge 1/day, gunsmith, order, weapon finesse
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Nimble +1, order ability
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Deeds, duelist’s charge, grit
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Challenge 2/day, daunting swordsman
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Blade elegance, deeds
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus feat, nimble +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Challenge 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Deeds
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Challenge 4/day, nimble +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Mighty charge
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Bonus feat, demanding challenge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Callenge 5/day, deeds
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Nimble +4, saving slash
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Challenge 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Deeds
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +11 +6 Bonus feat, nimble +5
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Challenge 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Supreme charge
A cavalier who belongs to this order has learned to use both dueling weapons and firearms in combat, supporting his allies in close quarters and from afar. Cavaliers of this order tend to be agile, exacting, and skilled in the both dueling weapons and one-handed firearms. This order complements the Elegant Swordsman multiclass archetype.
Edicts: The cavalier must accept any challenge to duel an opponent one-on-one, provide ranged offensive support to his allies, and use his agility to gain the upper hand in battle. The cavalier always seeks to control the battlefield, provide both offensive and defensive benefits to his allies, and position himself where he can provide opportunities for his allies to strike down his foes.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the dueling gun cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus to his touch AC against firearm attacks made against him by the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses. Furthermore, the dueling gun cavalier gains a +2 bonus to his CMB and CMD when performing or defending against disarm and sunder combat maneuvers, or feints until the end of the challenge.
Skills: An order of the dueling gun cavalier adds Acrobatics (Dex) and Sleight of Hand (Dex) to his list of class skills. In addition, an order of the dueling gun cavalier adds his Wisdom modifier (if positive) to all Reflex saves he makes while on foot.
Order Abilities: A cavalier that belongs to the order of the dueling gun gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Dueling Style (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier gains Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Sword and Pistol (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier gains Sword and Pistol as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. When the cavalier uses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielding a dueling weapon and a one-handed firearm, his attacks with the firearm provoke no attacks of opportunity from foes that he threaten with his dueling weapon.
Piercing Blade (Ex): At 15th level, as a standard action or as part of a charge, when the cavalier attacks a mounted opponent, he can make two attacks, one against the mount and the other against the rider, using a dueling weapon at his highest base attack bonus. Furthermore, if the mount is hit and its rider attempts to negate the hit with the Mounted Combat feat, the cavalier’s attack roll is considered 4 higher when calculating the DC of the Ride check to negate the hit. If the cavalier is dual wielding a dueling weapon and a loaded one-handed firearm, one of these attacks can be made with his firearm.
# Elegant Swordsman
I think you did a very good job converting my idea Elghinn. I have however a few propositions about some deeds and minor ability.
First of all, I don't think it is necessary to limit dueling weapon to piercing weapon only. I can easily imagine a elegant swordsman using a scimitar or a cane as a club and fight with grace and elegance. The main thing here is the finesse aspect of the weapon. I suggest to replace the dueling weapon limitation to one-handed and light piercing weapon for something as : any weapon usable with the Weapon Finesse feat (it open the way to some two-handed fencer build with exotic weapons).
I also remarked that the Charming Ruse deed looks like a bad version of Improved Feint. It does the exact same thing, cost 1 grit and doesn't count as Improved Feint for the purpose of feat prerequisite. A feinting oriented swordsman still must expend a feat to get Improved Feint if he wants Two-Weapon Feint or Greater Feint. I propose to either reduce the feint to as swift action that cost 1 grit point to perform or to allow this deeds to count as improved feint and remove the grit cost. Utility shot is a good gunslinger ability : it's a virtual immunity to bleed effect and gives some interesting options. The actual Charming Ruse isn't a even trade in my opinion.
I also think this class need at least Uncanny dodge, or something similar. This could be incorporate in place of duelist's charge or as a deeds (maybe something to replaces the 1st level Gunslinger's dodge).
Ex. : At 3st level, the elegant swordsman gains an uncanny knack for getting out of the way of unexpected attacks. When an attack is made against the elegant swordsman that would consider him flat-footed, he can spend 1 panache point as an immediate action to avoid losing his Dexterity to AC for 1 round. At 7th level, using this ability also immunizes the swashbuckler from the flat-footed conditions related to concealment for 1 round.
Overall, this MCA seems legit and well balanced, even if it seems to lose a lot of the original fencer control capacity, something I can understand.
Elghinn,
Question on your guidelines:
Spell Progression: Multiclass archetypes with a spellcasting primary class continue to cast spells normally in that class. If the archetype’s primary class has a spellcasting ability that is two or more steps below that of the secondary class, the archetype’s spellcasting ability increases by one step. If the primary class has no spellcasting, depending upon the archetype, it may gain a 1/2 caster spell progression or a unique progression table of its own. Additionally, the multiclass archetype may gain the Diminished Spellcasting ability, retaining the primary’s class’s spell progression, but reducing the number of spells cast at each spell level per day, or the number of spells known of each spell level, depending upon the multiclass archetype. Unless noted otherwise, an archetype has a caster level equal to its archetype level.
I'm working on Dreamscarred Press' forums for Multi-class Archetypes for Psionic classes and it seems our first archetype has a bit of a scenario that is outside your guidelines.
The primary class has no actual "spells" able to be cast, but does have power points, combined with a class that has psionic power progression similar to that of the magus combined with the sneak attack ability of the rogue (cryptic-brutal disruptor archetype).
In this case, the primary class doesn't have spellcasting per se, but does have spellpoints for use with fueling things like scrolls (power stones).
How would you guys balance this out?
# Elegant Swordsman
I think you did a very good job converting my idea Elghinn. I have however a few propositions about some deeds and minor ability.
First of all, I don't think it is necessary to limit dueling weapon to piercing weapon only. I can easily imagine a elegant swordsman using a scimitar or a cane as a club and fight with grace and elegance. The main thing here is the finesse aspect of the weapon. I suggest to replace the dueling weapon limitation to one-handed and light piercing weapon for something as : any weapon usable with the Weapon Finesse feat (it open the way to some two-handed fencer build with exotic weapons).
I'm fine with that. Essentially, you're looking for a finesse combatant vs. an actual duelist then. I'll change it to any weapon that can use the Weapon Finesse feat.
I also remarked that the Charming Ruse deed looks like a bad version of Improved Feint. It does the exact same thing, cost 1 grit and doesn't count as Improved Feint for the purpose of feat prerequisite. A feinting oriented swordsman still must expend a feat to get Improved Feint if he wants Two-Weapon Feint or Greater Feint. I propose to either reduce the feint to as swift action that cost 1 grit point to perform or to allow this deeds to count as improved feint and remove the grit cost. Utility shot is a good gunslinger ability : it's a virtual immunity to bleed effect and gives some interesting options. The actual Charming Ruse isn't a even trade in my opinion.
Then let's just leave Utility Shot if you like it that much. There's enough chances to gain any Feint related feats through normal feats or bonus feats.
I also think this class need at least Uncanny dodge, or something similar. This could be incorporate in place of duelist's charge or as a deeds (maybe something to replaces the 1st level Gunslinger's dodge).
Let's go with replacing Gunslinger's Dodge with Uncanny Dodge.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the uncanny knack to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. When the elegant swordsman is caught flat-footed, or loses his Dex bonus to AC if an attacker is invisible, he can spend 1 grit point as an immediate action to negate the flat-footed effect and loss of his Dex bonus to AC for 1 round. He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. An elegant swordsman with this deed can still lose his Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against him. This deed otherwise functions as the uncanny dodge class feature. If an elegant swordsman has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. This deed replaces the gunslinger’s dodge deed.
Overall, this MCA seems legit and well balanced, even...
Elghinn,
Question on your guidelines:
Spell Progression: Multiclass archetypes with a spellcasting primary class continue to cast spells normally in that class. If the archetype’s primary class has a spellcasting ability that is two or more steps below that of the secondary class, the archetype’s spellcasting ability increases by one step. If the primary class has no spellcasting, depending upon the archetype, it may gain a 1/2 caster spell progression or a unique progression table of its own. Additionally, the multiclass archetype may gain the Diminished Spellcasting ability, retaining the primary’s class’s spell progression, but reducing the number of spells cast at each spell level per day, or the number of spells known of each spell level, depending upon the multiclass archetype. Unless noted otherwise, an archetype has a caster level equal to its archetype level.
I'm working on Dreamscarred Press' forums for Multi-class Archetypes for Psionic classes and it seems our first archetype has a bit of a scenario that is outside your guidelines.
The primary class has no actual "spells" able to be cast, but does have power points, combined with a class that has psionic power progression similar to that of the magus combined with the sneak attack ability of the rogue (cryptic-brutal disruptor archetype).
In this case, the primary class doesn't have spellcasting per se, but does have spellpoints for use with fueling things like scrolls (power stones).
How would you guys balance this out?
1) Simply compare the psionics class with the appropriate spellcasting class.
Psychic Warrior, Dread (128 points & 6th level powers; hybrid manifester) = Magus, Inquisitor, Bard, Alchemist, Summoner (hyrbid casters up to 6th level spells).
Aegis, Marksman (70 points & 4th level powers; 1/2 manifester) = Paladins, Rangers (1/2 casters, 4th level spells).
2) Use the spellcasting guidelines we provide, replacing the appropriate caster with its equivalent manifester.
b) Primary full manifester + Secondary 1/2 manifester = Hybrid manifester
c) Primary hybrid manifester + Secondary nonmanifester = 1/2 manifester or even half or a 1/2 manifester (depending on the build)
d) Primary hybrid manifester + Secondary 1/2 manifester = hybrid maniuferster or 1/2 manifester (depending on the build)
e) Primary 1/2 manifester + Secondary full manifester = Hybrid manifeter
f) Primary 1/2 manifester + Secondary hybrid manifester = 1/2 manifester or hybrind manifester (depending on build)
g) Primary Nonmanifester + Secondary full manifester = hybrid or 1/2 manifester (dependingon build)
h) Primary Nonmanifester + Secondary hybrid manifester = 1/2 manifester
i) Primary Nonmanifester + Secondary 1/2 manifester = 1/2 manifester, nonmanifester, or half 1/2 manifester (dependingon build)
3) If you are dealing with the equivalent of diminished spellcasting for a psionic class, then use the following mathematical equation (not including cantrips/orison) to determine the point equivalent of a spell for that type of manifester.
Hybrid caster = 30 total spells (1st-6th)
1/2 caster = 14 total spells (1st-4th)
Full manifester = 343 total points (1st-9th)
Hybrid manifester = 128 total points (1st-6th)
1/2 manifester = 70 total points (1st-4th)
Full casters/manifesters: 343 points divided by 54 spells = 6.35 pts/spell
Hybrid casters/manifesters: 128 points divided by 30 spells = 4.26 pts/spell
1/2 casters/manifesters: 70 points divided by 14 spells = 5 pts/spell
Thus, the equivalent of "diminished spellcasting (or lets call it diminished manifesting) is...
Full manifester = 343 - (9 lost spells x 6.35 = 57.13, round to 57) = 286 points
Hybrid manifester = 128 - (6 lost spells x 4.26 = 25.56, round to 26 ) = 102 points
1/2 manifester = 70 - (4 lost spells x 5 = 20) = 50 points
QUEUE UPDATE
Well, haven't seen WingedPanther, so let's move on to the next MCA in the queue. Christos/Toaster, you're up with the whole Tristam's Monk Blooldine thing. Once we've OKed the Elegant Swordsman is done, ecw1701 is up with his Mag/Brd.
ok so this is what he gave me to work with.
Arcana- You use your Wisdom, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class features and effects relating to your sorcerer class, such as bonus spells per day, maximum spell level you can cast, and the save DCs of your spells.
Class Skill- Acrobatics
1st- IUS as a bonus feat, +1 attack bonus on unarmed strikes and touch spells. Increases by +1 at 4th and every 4 thereafter.
3rd- Wis to AC as a monk, but no more than half your level. If you have monk levels instead treat half your sorcerer levels (rounded down) as monk levels for determining the monks AC bonus.
9th- Ki pool as though monk of your level -4.
15th- No clue yet
20th- Perfect Self
Feats- Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Combat Training.
Spells- Also not done.
so i have some thoughts 15th level power, how about burning ki to increase spell dc's? also bonus spell list, how about (2nd) feather fall (4th) spider climb (6th) haste (8th) resilient sphere (10th) break enchantment(12th) heroism greater (14th) ethereal jaunt (16th) mind blank (18th) mage’s disjunction (as taken from zen mystery)
15th- No clue yet
Slow fall, duh.
But seriously, I'd probably go with Diamond Soul. This is supposed to be a monk bloodline, might as well have monk abilities.
That said, we might need to change around the Ki pool and what it can do, or maybe not, you do get bonus melee damage and AC, so it might be a good idea to keep it that way then I suppose.
As for the spells, here are some choices you might want to consider:
3rd: Adjuring Step, Abstemiousness, Comprehend Languages, Endure Elements, Feather Fall, Ki Arrow, Keen Senses Mighty Fist Of The Earth, or Protection from Chaos. Adjuring Step because of Abundant Step, Abstemiousness because Irori=monk, Comprehend Languages because of Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Feather Fall because of Slow Fall, Ki Arrow because Ki Arrow, Keen Senses because monks usually have keen senses, Mighty Fist Of The Earth because of unarmed strike and ki strike synergy, and Protection from Chaos because Protection from Chaos.
5th: Delay Disease, Delay Poison, or Spider Climb. Delay Disease and Delay poison because of Purity of Body and Diamond Body, respectively, and Spider Climb because Spider Climb.
Will do others in 10 or so hours. I need sleep right now.
15th- No clue yetSlow fall, duh.
But seriously, I'd probably go with Diamond Soul. This is supposed to be a monk bloodline, might as well have monk abilities.
That said, we might need to change around the Ki pool and what it can do, or maybe not, you do get bonus melee damage and AC, so it might be a good idea to keep it that way then I suppose.
As for the spells, here are some choices you might want to consider:
3rd: Adjuring Step, Abstemiousness, Comprehend Languages, Endure Elements, Feather Fall, Ki Arrow, Keen Senses Mighty Fist Of The Earth, or Protection from Chaos. Adjuring Step because of Abundant Step, Abstemiousness because Irori=monk, Comprehend Languages because of Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Feather Fall because of Slow Fall, Ki Arrow because Ki Arrow, Keen Senses because monks usually have keen senses, Mighty Fist Of The Earth because of unarmed strike and ki strike synergy, and Protection from Chaos because Protection from Chaos.
5th: Delay Disease, Delay Poison, or Spider Climb. Delay Disease and Delay poison because of Purity of Body and Diamond Body, respectively, and Spider Climb because Spider Climb.
Will do others in 10 or so hours. I need sleep right now.
diamond soul basically can be covered by the spell spell resistance, I think at least one casting friendly ability would be good. Increasing DCs are powerful, hence 15th level. I am looking forward to the spell suggestions though.
Elginn,
Sent you a PM to continue our discussion.
For the Paizo classes, do you guys see any balance concerns when combining a primary non-spellcaster with full BAB progression and a partial spellcaster with a full caster level insfar as feat/prestige class qualifications?
ok so this is what he gave me to work with.
** spoiler omitted **
so i have some thoughts 15th level power, how about burning ki to increase spell dc's? also bonus spell list, how about (2nd) feather fall (4th) spider climb (6th) haste (8th) resilient sphere (10th) break enchantment(12th) heroism greater (14th) ethereal jaunt (16th) mind blank (18th) mage’s disjunction (as taken from zen mystery)
So, are we looking at a buildng a Sor/Mnk MCA with a new complementary bloodline? OR are we just working out a Monastic Bloodline for the MCA Supplements? If the first, we also need to look at what other Sorcerer abilities to swap out-do we want diminished spellcasting, dropping it to a hybrid caster, lose certain bloodline benefits? I would suggest the diminshed spellcasting or go hybrid casting, as I don't think we want to lose parts of the bloodline benefits and it gives us some more leway. An unarmed combatant spellcaster might be fun with hybrid casting.
#Elegant Swordsman
@Kelazan: Are you good with those changes? Also, notice that he has medium armor, plus the nimclass feature. Yes, nimble doesn't work with medium armor, but this gives the MCA the option go go light mobile combatant, or medium (even heavy if he takes the feat) armored meleeist. erwise, I think it's pretty good as it is. Thoughts by others elegant swordsmans?
I am good with the elegant swordsman. And you don't have to remove your charming ruse, it still more flavorful than utility shot. My only concern was that charming ruse wasn't counting as Improved Feint for the purpose of feat prerequisites, even if it was sharing the exact same mechanic.
Hybrid caster sounds fine, something like the 3.5 battle sorcerer variant could be used as a framework. Exchanging bloodline feats for monk bonus feats could be fun, and maybe delay access to bloodlines 3 levels or so, coupled with loss of bloodline spells for specific monk based ones, and we got something going.
Ok here are the rest of my spell suggestions:
7th: Burst of Speed, Haste, Heroism, Ki Leech, Remove Disease, or Tongues. Burst of Speed or Haste because of Fast Movement, Heroism because of it fits, Ki Leech because Ki, Remove Disease because of Purity of Body, and Tongues because of Tongue of the Sun and Moon.
9th: Dimension Door, Forceful Strike, Freedom of Movement, or Replenish Ki. Dimension Door because Abundant Step, Forceful Strike because unarmed damage, Freedom of Movement because that seems like a monk thing, and Replenish Ki because of Ki.
11th: Err.. Dispel Chaos or Break Enchantment?
13th: Heroism, Greater?
15th: Ethereal Jaunt or Ki Shout. Ethereal Jaunt because of Empty body, Ki Shout because Ki.
17th: Iron Body or Shield of Law?
19th: Etherealness or Freedom?
I am good with the elegant swordsman. And you don't have to remove your charming ruse, it still more flavorful than utility shot. My only concern was that charming ruse wasn't counting as Improved Feint for the purpose of feat prerequisites, even if it was sharing the exact same mechanic.
Then we'll put it back in and make it count as the Improved Feint feat.
Here's the final version.
Elegant swordsmen move with a grace unmatched by most foes, parrying blows and countering attacks with swift thrusts of their blades. Unlike most cavalier’s, these combatants tend to wear light armor, and leap and tumble into the fray with both sword and pistol in hand. Elegant swordsmen dash across the battlefield taunting their foes, while encouraging their companions to greater heights. The elegant swordsman thrives in melee combat, where his skill with the blade allows him to make sudden attacks against clumsy foes and to cripple opponents with particularly well-placed thrusts of the blade. Clever and often known for their thirst for adventure, elegant swordsmen tend to be more dexterous and light on their feet than their armored fighting cousins. Relying on their wits, they often prefer to negotiate their way out of situations rather than fight. Don’t mistake parley for weakness, however. When pressed, elegant swordsmen are formidable opponents unmatched in one-on-one combat.
Primary: Cavalier.
Secondary: Gunslinger.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The elegant swordsman selects three gunslinger skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills. The elegant swordsman gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The elegant swordsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the dueling sword and one-handed firearms. An elegant swordsman is also proficient with light and medium armor, and with bucklers.
Challenge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier’s ability of the same name, except that when the elegant swordsman uses a finesse weapon or a one-handed firearm against the target of his challenge, and is wearing light or no armor, he gains a +2 penalty to his Armor Class against attacks directed at him by the target of his challenge. A finesse weapon is any weapon that benefits from the Weapon Finesse feat (see below).
Gunsmith: At 1st level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s gunsmith ability, but gains either a dragon pistol or a pistol as his starting firearm. This ability, finesse duelist, deeds, and grit replace the cavalier’s mount, tactician, greater tactician, and master tactician.
Weapon Finesse (Ex): At 1st level, an elegant swordsman gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and adds the dueling sword to the list of weapons that the feat benefits.
Nimble (Ex): At 2nd level, a cavalier gains the gunslinger’s nimble ability. This ability replaces the cavalier’s heavy armor proficiency.
Deeds: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s deeds ability and gains access to 1s level deeds. At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, an elegant swordsman gains access to each subsequent level of deeds up to 15th level deeds at 17th level.
In addition, the elegant swordsman swaps eight of the gunslinger’s deeds for the following deeds.
Swordsman’s Flair (Ex): At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman wields his weapons with flair and elegance and adds 1 point of Charisma bonus (if any) per elegant swordsman level as a circumstance bonus to her attack rolls while wielding a finesse weapon. If an elegant swordsman is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus. The elegant swordsman must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. This deed replaces the quick clear deed.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the uncanny knack to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. When the elegant swordsman is caught flat-footed, or loses his Dex bonus to AC if an attacker is invisible, he can spend 1 grit point as an immediate action to negate the flat-footed effect and loss of his Dex bonus to AC for 1 round. He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. An elegant swordsman with this deed can still lose his Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against him. This deed otherwise functions as the uncanny dodge class feature. If an elegant swordsman has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead. This deed replaces the gunslinger’s dodge deed.
Charming Ruse (Ex): At 5th level, an elegant swordsman’s self-confidence and natural charm impress his opponents. An elegant swordsman adds 1/2 his elegant swordsman level to his Bluff check when he attempts a feint with a dueling weapon. The elegant swordsman must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. If the elegant swordsman spends 1 grit point, he can attempt a feint as a move action. This deed counts as the Improved Feint feat for the purpose of qualifying for feats. This deed replaces the utility shot deed.
Endless Bravado (Ex): At 5th level, an elegant swordsman can use taunts and insults to undermine the confidence of his opponents that hear him. The elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point as a move action, causing his opponent to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear and charm effects for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier. This penalty increases by –1 at 11th level, and again at 17th level. At 10th level, an elegant swordsman can use this deed as a swift action. This deed replaces the pistol-whip deed.
Instant Riposte (Ex): At 9th level, an elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point to counterattack an opponent as an immediate action. Whenever an opponent attacks the elegant swordsman in melee combat, the elegant swordsman can make a single counterattack against the opponent at his highest attack bonus. This attack is in addition to any attacks of opportunity the opponent may provoke by entering the elegant swordman’s threatened squares. In addition, the target is considered flat-footed against this attack. This deed replaces the startling shot deed.
Precise Thrust (Ex): At 9th level, whenever the elegant swordsman makes a single melee attack with a finesse weapon as part of a standard action, a charge, or a spring attack, he can spend 1 grit point as a free action to deal extra damage to his opponent. This extra damage is equal to 3d6 at 9th level, plus 1d6 points of damage every four levels beyond 9th, to a maximum of 5d6 at 17th level. This damage is considered “precision” damages. Should the elegant swordsman score a critical hit with a precision thrust, this extra damage is not multiplied. If the attack misses, the elegant swordsman only deals minimum precision damage. This deed replaces the targeting deed.
Subtle Cut (Ex): At 13th level, whenever the elegant swordsman confirms a critical hit with a finesse weapon against an opponent, he can spend 1 grit point to make an Intimidate check against the opponent’s CMD as an immediate action. If the Intimidate check is successful, the elegant swordsman presses the tip of his weapon against the throat of his opponent. The opponent can either choose to surrender, or the elegant swordsman can roll his critical damage as normal, but increases the critical multiplier of his weapon by one. For example, if the weapon has a x2 critical multiplier, it is increased to x3 for this attack. If the check fails, the attack is considered a normal attack, and the elegant swordsman deals normal damage. This deed replaces the bleeding wound deed.
Denouncing Invective (Ex): At 17th level, an elegant swordsman can spend 1 grit point as a standard action to emulate one of the following spell’s effects: denounce, malicious spite, or utter contempt. The save DC of these effects is equal to 10 + 1/2 the elegant swordsman’s class level + the elegant swordsman’s Charisma modifier. This deed replaces the menacing shot deed.
Swordsman’s Charge: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman learns to make more accurate charge attacks on foot while wielding a finesse weapon or one-handed firearm. The elegant swordsman receives a +4 bonus on melee attack rolls on a charge while wielding a finesse weapon or one-handed firearm (instead of the normal +2). In addition, the elegant swordsman does not suffer any penalty to his AC after making a charge attack while wielding a finesse weapon or one-handed firearm. This ability replaces cavalier’s charge.
Grit: At 3rd level, an elegant swordsman gains the gunslinger’s grit ability, except that elegant swordsman uses his Charisma to determine the number of girt points he gains each day. In addition, an elegant swordsman can use a finesse weapon in addition to his firearm to regain grit.
Daunting Warrior (Ex): At 4th level, an elegant swordsman learns to use his swordsmanship to great effect. The elegant swordsman receives a bonus equal to 1/2 his elegant swordsman level whenever he uses Intimidate against the target of his challenge. In addition, he can use Intimidate to demoralize the target of his challenge as a move action. At 7th level, he can use Intimidate to demoralize the target of his challenge as a swift action.
Blade Elegance (Ex): At 5th level, a fencer can select one specific type of finesse weapon. He can add his Dexterity modifier instead of his Strength modifier on damage rolls when using that type of weapon. The fencer can not multiply his Dexterity modifier on damage roll when using a two-handed weapon. At 10th level, 15th level and 20th level, an elegant swordsman can change his chosen finesse weapon. This ability replaces banner.
Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the can also choose grit feats as a bonus feat.
Mighty Charge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the elegant swordsman gains this ability when wielding a finesse weapons or one-handed firearm during a charge on foot.
Saving Slash (Ex): At 14th level, when wielding a finesse weapon, an elegant swordsman can use an immediate action to try deflecting a melee critical hit targeting him, reducing its damage to that of a normal hit, with a 25% chance of success. This does not stack with the fortification special ability of magical armor or similar effects. This ability replaces greater banner.
Supreme Charge (Ex): This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that the elegant swordsman gains this ability when wielding a finesse weapons or one-handed firearm during a charge on foot.
Table: Elegant Swordsman
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Challenge 1/day, gunsmith, order, weapon finesse
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Nimble +1, order ability
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Deeds, grit, swordsman’s charge
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Challenge 2/day, daunting warrior
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Blade elegance, deeds
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus feat, nimble +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Challenge 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Deeds
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Challenge 4/day, nimble +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Mighty charge
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Bonus feat, demanding challenge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Callenge 5/day, deeds
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Nimble +4, saving slash
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Challenge 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Deeds
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +11 +6 Bonus feat, nimble +5
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Challenge 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Supreme charge
A cavalier who belongs to this order has learned to use both graceful weapons and firearms in combat, supporting his allies in close quarters and from afar. Cavaliers of this order tend to be agile, exacting, and skilled in the both finesse weapons and one-handed firearms. This order complements the Elegant Swordsman multiclass archetype.
Edicts: The cavalier must accept any challenge to duel an opponent one-on-one, provide ranged offensive support to his allies, and use his agility to gain the upper hand in battle. The cavalier always seeks to control the battlefield, provide both offensive and defensive benefits to his allies, and position himself where he can provide opportunities for his allies to strike down his foes.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the graceful gun cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus to his touch AC against firearm attacks made against him by the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses. Furthermore, the graceful gun cavalier gains a +2 bonus to his CMB and CMD when performing or defending against disarm and sunder combat maneuvers, or feints until the end of the challenge.
Skills: An order of the graceful gun cavalier adds Acrobatics (Dex) and Sleight of Hand (Dex) to his list of class skills. In addition, an order of the graceful gun cavalier adds his Wisdom modifier (if positive) to all Reflex saves he makes while on foot.
Order Abilities: A cavalier that belongs to the order of the graceful gun gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Dueling Style (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier gains Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Sword and Pistol (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier gains Sword and Pistol as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. When the cavalier uses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while wielding a finesse weapon and a one-handed firearm, his attacks with the firearm provoke no attacks of opportunity from foes that he threaten with his finesse weapon.
Piercing Blade (Ex): At 15th level, as a standard action or as part of a charge, when the cavalier attacks a mounted opponent, he can make two attacks, one against the mount and the other against the rider, using a finesse weapon at his highest base attack bonus. Furthermore, if the mount is hit and its rider attempts to negate the hit with the Mounted Combat feat, the cavalier’s attack roll is considered 4 higher when calculating the DC of the Ride check to negate the hit. If the cavalier is dual wielding a finesse weapon and a loaded one-handed firearm, one of these attacks can be made with his firearm.
Hybrid caster sounds fine, something like the 3.5 battle sorcerer variant could be used as a framework. Exchanging bloodline feats for monk bonus feats could be fun, and maybe delay access to bloodlines 3 levels or so, coupled with loss of bloodline spells for specific monk based ones, and we got something going.
I would do the following:
1) Hybrid framework (hybrid casting, d8, BAB +15)
2) Create a Monastic Bloodline that any sorcerer could take
3) Bloodline arcana and skill at 1st level.
4) Bloodline powers at normal increments (1/3/9/15/20). These should be key abilities, which forces the MCA to choose it if it really wants to be a "monk". Then we include less iconic abilities in the MCA progression, making it "monk" but still allowing the MCA to choose any bloodline. I think you should put Timeless Body in as the 15th level power.
5) Bloodline spells at 3/6/9/12/15/18
6) Bonus feats (includes monk and bloodline feats) at 2/8/14/20
7) Monk abilities at 4th (evaison), 5th (maneuver training), 7th (high jump), 10th (purity of body), 13th (improved evasion), 16th (diamond body), 17th (???), 19th (tongue of the sun and the moon).
So the table would look like this.
Table: Sorcerer Monk
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bloodline power, cantrips, eschew material 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bonus feat 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline power, bloodline spell 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Evasion 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Maneuver training 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Bloodline spell 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 High jump 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Bloodline power, bloodline spell 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Purity of body 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Bloodline spell 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Improved evasion 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Bloodline power, bloodline spell 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Diamond body 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 ?? 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Tongue of the sun and the moon 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Bloodline power, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5
Of course, as we know, all these monk abilities + bloodline powers may make this OP, so we may want to reduce the static monk powers so that the table looks more like a bard's table, with empty levels, all depends on the power levels of abilities. Bloodline powers tend to be pretty good after all. I think this is were we should start, then start paring down monk abilities and/or including new abilities to create some more synergy.
Actually, make the 15th level bloodline power this.
Ki Spells (Su): At 15th level, you can spend 2 ki points to increase the save DC of a single spell that you can cast by +1. These ki points are spent as part of casting the spell.
Timeless body can be incorporated into the static abilities.
Looking over all the input on spells and what not, and looking at monk abilities and spells on my own, I think this would be a suitable list for the spells (included). Here's the Monastic Bloodline written up.
Your blood has been infused with the rigorous training and mental discipline of the monastic orders throughout the world. You are able to strike your opponents with deadly blows, dodge physical attacks, focus ki energy into various effects, and become one with the infinite comic energies of the universe. This bloodline complements the Sorcerer Monk multiclass archetype.
Class Skill: Acrobatics.
Bonus Spells: expeditious retreat (3rd), glide* (5th), healing thief† (7th), dimension door (9th), spell resistance (11th), age resistance** (13th), resonating word** (15th), mind blank (17th), etherealness (19th). (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat)
Bonus Feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Combat Training.
Bloodline Arcana: You rely on insight rather than force of personality. You use your Wisdom instead of your Charisma to determine the effects of your sorcerer class features, including those form your bloodline, your bonus spells per day, the maximum spell level you can cast, and the save DCs of your spells.
Bloodline Powers: You are trained in the mystic knowledge of the ascetics, and can draw upon it to improve your combat capabilities.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st level, you gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. Your attacks may be made with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that you may make unarmed strikes with your hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack when striking unarmed. You may thus apply your full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all your unarmed strikes.
Usually your unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but you can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on your attack roll. You have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. Your unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
You deal 1d6 points of damage at 1st level. Every six levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1 damage die category (1d8 at 7th, 1d10 at 13th, and 2d6 at 19th level). These unarmed damage values are for a Medium sorcerer. A Small sorcerer deals 1 damage die lower (1d4 at 1st, 1d6 at 7th, 1d8 at 13th, and 1d10at 19th level), while a Large sorcerer deals 1 damage die category (1d8 at 1st, 1d10 at 7th, 2d6 at 13th, and 2d8 at 19th level).
In addition, when you make an unarmed strike or use a touch spell, you gain a +1 bonus to your attack rolls at 4th level, plus an additional +1 bonus for every four levels beyond 4th, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
AC Bonus (Su): At 3rd level, when you are unarmored and unencumbered, you add your Wisdom bonus (if any) to your AC and your CMD. In addition, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five sorcerer levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +4 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose these bonuses when you are immobilized or helpless, when you wear any armor, when you carry a shield, or when you carry a medium or heavy load.
Ki Pool (Su): At 9th level, you gain a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in you ki pool is equal to 1/2 his sorcerer level + your Wisdom modifier. As long as you have at least 1 point in your ki pool, you can make a ki strike. At 9th level, ki strike allows your unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 12th level, your unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 15th level, your unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 19th level, your unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
By spending 1 point from your ki pool, you can do one of the following:
• Make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus when making an unarmed strike, or
• Increase your speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or
• Give yourself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
Ki Spells (Su): At 15th level, you can spend 2 ki points to increase the save DC of a single spell that you can cast by +1. These ki points are spent as part of casting the spell.
Perfect Self (Su): At 20th level, you become a magical creature. You are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever your creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, you gain damage reduction 10/chaotic, which allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonchaotic weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, you can still be brought back from the dead as if you were a member of your previous creature type.
Nice that'll provide an excellent framework, although i do fear that this may be too much monk for a sorcerer primary. But maybe not.
Here's my thought. With all the sorcerer goodies, we may, as suggested at the beginning, only allow up to the 15th level bloodline power. Otherwise, it gets everything the Sorcerer gets, plus a bunch of monk (though more monk if you choose the Monastic bloodline), but less spells. So perhaps a prgression like this would be better. Less monk, restricts 20th level bloodline powers to full sorcerers, then we give it its own unique capstone.
Of course, as we progress here, we can always remove some of the other monk abilities, and insert more flavorful unique ones?
Table: Sorcerer Monk
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bloodline power, cantrips, eschew material 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline spell 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Maneuver training 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Bloodline spell 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 High jump 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Bloodline spell 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Purity of body 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Bloodline spell 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Improved evasion 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Diamond body 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Timeless body 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Capstone, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5
But then again, perhaps we'll be alright using the full sorcerer bloodline. Then we can be very selective as to the monk abilities we add to the MCA, and include/incorporate more unique sorcerer-monk abilities. That way, if the player really wants to be more monk than sorcerer, he chooses the Monatic Bloodline, otherwise, there are lots of other bloodlines to create a more sorcerer MCA. So, now that we have the Monastic bloodline generally set, I think the next step is to really narrow down what monk abilities we want included in static levels of the MCA framework. Then we can fill in the remaining dead levels with new abilities.
# Fencer
@Nimble; I feel nimble is there to make up for not using a shield. I'd not allow nimble to work with two-handed weapons.
Replying on the defensive balance issues, I made an analysis of the Swashbuckler proposal from Pazio. Unfortunately I took too long and the testing period was over before I posted it. Anyway, I feel the argument applies to the fencer as well.
Most classes start out with 3 sources of low-level AC; Armor, shield, and dexterity. Of these, armor is always the largest. Shield is a static bonus a high-strength character can give up for more damage, while dexterity is conditional to some builds/classes and incompatible with heavier armor. This is where armored classes get their advantage; heavy armor means higher AC over the character's entire career. Dexterity allows you to catch up on some of this, but you rarely have enough of it to take up the slack.
Dexterity AC bonuses develop more for dexterity classes, naturally. Both because they put more points into Dexterity, because enhancing Dexterity has a higher priority to them, and because they wear armor that allows more Dexterity bonus to apply. But all characters can get a bonus from increasing dexterity simply by enhancing it and getting mithral armor.
In toto, a small bonus to Dex-focused builds over levels, but a disadvantage at low levels unless you can afford absurdly high initial Dexterity.
# Fencer (Again)
The fencer starts without shield proficiency, but it can actually use a masterwork buckler with no penalty right from the start. By the same token, it can use some 2-handed finesseable weapons.
If this class is balanced around being a 1-haded fighter, I feel it needs restrictions to keep it from using a shield, two weapons, and from gaining it's Nimble benefit when wielding a 2H weapon. Actually using Duel with a TWF fencer would be devastating.
Also, the name of this should be duelist, as that is what it actually does. Sad that there is already a PrC by that name, which really ought to be named the fencer.
# Sorcerer Monk
I'd use the magus spell list and the magus class as the framework for this. Flurry of Blows is replaced by spell combat, armor replaced with monk armor bonuses (possibly based off Charisma), armed attacks get replaced with unarmed attacks. I actually wrote a monk/magus Int-based combo for this, just make that Cha-based. Magus of the mind.
Here's my thought. With all the sorcerer goodies, we may, as suggested at the beginning, only allow up to the 15th level bloodline power. Otherwise, it gets everything the Sorcerer gets, plus a bunch of monk (though more monk if you choose the Monastic bloodline), but less spells. So perhaps a prgression like this would be better. Less monk, restricts 20th level bloodline powers to full sorcerers, then we give it its own unique capstone.
Of course, as we progress here, we can always remove some of the other monk abilities, and insert more flavorful unique ones?
there we go thats much more like it.
Just to emphasize, the dead levels in this table are where monk or new abilities can be slotted in. I think evasion is a good one to keep for sure, so I left it in the table. AS this is your MCA, Christos, what are you thinking you'd like to keep as core monk abilities for the table? Obviously, not any in the new bloodline. :D We also need a name too. Wandering Sorcerer, Blood Ascetic, Ascetic Mage...? Ideas?
Table: Sorcerer Monk
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bloodline power, cantrips, eschew material 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline spell 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Bloodline spell 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Bloodline spell 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Bloodline spell 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Capstone, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5
I was doing some thinking and plumbing for ideas on the d20pfsrd sight, and came up with the following. I realize two of the static abilities are similar to two of those in the Monastic Bloodline, but the statics are lesser versions, and are built upon if they choose the Monastic Bloodline.
Also, Starfox had suggested using the Magus spell list for this, but I'm not sure. I think we can just go with Sorcerer spell list, and perhaps add in some unique spells that are more monk?
Anyways, I'll take a look at the spells, and meantime, here's the Sorcerer Monk as I currently see it.
NEED BLURP CHRISTOS
Primary: Sorcerer.
Secondary: Monk.
Alignment: Any nonchaotic.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The sorcerer monk selects three monk skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal sorcerer class skills. The sorcerer monk gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +2 Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The sorcerer monk is proficient with simple weapons, plus the brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear and temple sword. A sorcerer monk is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a sorcerer monk's movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Arcane Martial Artist (Ex): At 1st level, the sorcerer monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage with her unarmed attacks. A sorcerer monk cannot make an unarmed attack while wielding a weapon in his hands.
At 2nd level, whenever a sorcerer monk casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, she can deliver the spell as part of an unarmed attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a sorcerer monk can make one free unarmed attack at her highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this unarmed attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the sorcerer monk has the monk’s unarmed strike ability, she uses the critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects) of the monk weapon she is wielding, but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
This ability does not count as the monk’s unarmed strike ability for the purposes of feat prerequisites, but it does stack with monk levels when determining the effects of the unarmed strike ability, including the unarmed strike power granted by the Monastic Bloodline.
Insightful: A sorcerer monk uses her Wisdom instead of her Charisma to determine the effects of her sorcerer class features, including those from her bloodline, her bonus spells per day, the maximum spell level she can cast, and the save DCs of her spells.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level, a sorcerer monk gains the monk’s evasion ability.
Ki Pool (Su): At 4th level, a sorcerer monk gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to 1/4 her sorcerer monk level + her Wisdom modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, whenever she makes an unarmed attack or uses a touch spell, she gains a +1 bonus to her attack rolls. For every four levels beyond 4th, she gains an additional +1 bonus to her unarmed or touch spell attack rolls, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
In addition, at 4th level, as long as the sorcerer monk has at least 1 ki point, she can make a ki strike. Hers unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
This ability stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of the ki pool ability, including the ki pool granted by the Monastic Bloodline.
Insightful Opening (Ex): At 7th level, by spending 1 ki point as an immediate action, a sorcerer monk can make an attack of opportunity against an enemy she threatens when that enemy confirms a critical hit against the sorcerer monk or an ally. This attack of opportunity must be an unarmed attack or a touch spell, using the sorcerer monk’s highest attack bonus. The sorcerer monk can make this attack of opportunity even if she would be killed or incapacitated by the critical hit, resolving the attack after the critical hit deals damage but before she falls unconscious or dies. If the sorcerer monk’s attack of opportunity hits, it is automatically a critical threat.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 10th level, a sorcerer monk gains the monk’s improved evasion ability.
Insightful Strike (Su): At 13th level, a sorcerer monk can spend 2 points from her ki pool as a swift action to perfect the next unarmed attack or touch spell attack she makes before the end of her turn. Attack and damage rolls are rolled twice and the sorcerer monk selects which result to use.
Diamond Body (Su): At 16th level, a sorcerer monk gains the monk’s diamond body ability.
Timeless Body (Ex): At 19th level, a sorcerer monk gains the monk’s timeless body ability.
Perfect Deflection (Su): At 20th level, a sorcerer monk can spend 3 ki points as a swift action to gain the effects of the Deflect Arrows feat and the protection from arrows spell for a number of minutes equal to her sorcerer monk level. In addition, when a targeted spell or spell-like ability fails against a sorcerer monk, she can reflect the effect onto its caster as spell turning by spending a number of points from her ki pool equal to 1/2 the spell’s level (minimum 1).
Table: Sorcerer Monk
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Arcane martial artist, bloodline power, cantrips, 1 — — — — —
eschew material, insightful
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline spell 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Ki pool 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Bloodline spell 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Insightful opening 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Bloodline spell 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Improved evasion 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Bloodline spell 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Insightful Strike 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Diamond body 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Timeless body 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Perfect deflection, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5
Your blood has been infused with the rigorous training and mental discipline of the monastic orders throughout the world. You are able to strike your opponents with deadly blows, dodge physical attacks, focus ki energy into various effects, and become one with the infinite comic energies of the universe. This bloodline complements the Sorcerer Monk multiclass archetype.
Class Skill: Acrobatics.
Bonus Spells: expeditious retreat (3rd), glide* (5th), healing thief† (7th), dimension door (9th), spell resistance (11th), age resistance**/disintegrate (13th), resonating word** (15th), mind blank (17th), etherealness (19th). (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat)
Bonus Feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Combat Training.
Bloodline Arcana: You rely on insight rather than force of personality. You use your Wisdom instead of your Charisma to determine the effects of your sorcerer class features, including those form your bloodline, your bonus spells per day, the maximum spell level you can cast, and the save DCs of your spells.
Bloodline Powers: You are trained in the mystic knowledge of the ascetics, and can draw upon it to improve your combat capabilities.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st level, you gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. Your attacks may be made with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that you may make unarmed strikes with your hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack when striking unarmed. You may thus apply your full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all your unarmed strikes.
Usually your unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but you can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on your attack roll. You have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. Your unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
You deal 1d6 points of damage at 1st level. Every six levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1 damage die category (1d8 at 7th, 1d10 at 13th, and 2d6 at 19th level). These unarmed damage values are for a Medium sorcerer. A Small sorcerer deals 1 damage die smaller (1d4 at 1st, 1d6 at 7th, 1d8 at 13th, and 1d10 at 19th level), while a Large sorcerer deals 1 damage die category larger (1d8 at 1st, 1d10 at 7th, 2d6 at 13th, and 2d8 at 19th level).
Your level stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of the unarmed strike ability. If you have levels in the sorcerer monk multiclass archetype, your arcane martial artist is superseded by this ability.
AC Bonus (Su): At 3rd level, when you are unarmored and unencumbered, you add your Wisdom bonus (if any) to your AC and your CMD. In addition, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five sorcerer levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +4 at 20th level. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose these bonuses when you are immobilized or helpless, when you wear any armor, when you carry a shield, or when you carry a medium or heavy load. You level stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of your AC bonus ability.
Ki Pool (Su): At 9th level, you gain a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in your ki pool is equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Wisdom modifier. As long as you have at least 1 point in your ki pool, you can make a ki strike. At 9th level, ki strike allows your unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 14th level, your unarmed attacks are treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 19th level, your unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
By spending 1 point from your ki pool, you can do one of the following:
• Make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus when making an unarmed strike, or
• Increase your speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or
• Give yourself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
Your level stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of you ki pool ability. If you have levels in the sorcerer monk multiclass archetype, your ki pool increases to 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Wisdom modifier. At 9t level, your ki strike allows your unarmed attacks to be treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 14th level, your unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 19th level, your unarmed attacks are also treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Insightful Spells (Su): At 15th level, you can spend 2 ki points to increase the save DC of a single spell that you can cast by +1. These ki points are spent as part of casting the spell.
Perfect Self (Su): At 20th level, you become a magical creature. You are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever your creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, you gain damage reduction 10/chaotic, which allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonchaotic weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, you can still be brought back from the dead as if you were a member of your previous creature type.
No sign of ECW1701, so next is Bardess and her Chosen Apostle. Anytime you have a change Bardess.
Ready, my lord!
Someone chooses to serve the gods. Someone is chosen. And then there is someone who thinks to have chosen.
Sometimes two very different deities declare a truce or an alliance. Maybe two pantheons with interests in the same area decide to stop hostilities; maybe a lawful good heavenly lord and a lawful evil archdevil are forced to help each other against a demon lord who would destroy an entire world. Or maybe, a deity wants to give a new image of itself, different from the one held by the organized church; or, two faiths that were in conflict until now want to spread the message that a syncretism between them is possible, to make a great philosophical step forward. The chosen apostle is the (often unwilling) pawn of this peace, agent of this change: a woman or a man consecrated to a god, that finds herself in possess of powers granted by another being or philosophy, ready or not. Scorned by both churches or regarded as a savior, balancing between praying and channeling magic, blessing or cursing her irregular state, she must learn how to serve two masters that could in any moment break their pacts– and survive.
Primary Class: Cleric
Secondary Class: Oracle
Alignment Restrictions: none
Hit Dice: d8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: the chosen apostle gains the class skills of her chosen mystery as bonus skills; if a mystery skill already is a class skill for the cleric class, the chosen apostle can choose any one other skill instead. Skill Ranks: 4 + Int
BAB: ¾
Saving Throws: GPG
Weapons and Armor: as cleric, but no favored weapon
Spell Progression: as oracle. The chosen apostle casts using Wisdom, but gains bonus spells based on Charisma. She gains a domain spell slot in which to prepare a domain or mystery spell.
1) Channel Spells, Domain, Mystery, Orisons, Revelation, Sacred Curse
2) ––
3) ––
4) ––
5) ––
6) Revelation
7) ––
8) ––
9) ––
10) ––
11) ––
12) ––
13) Revelation
14) ––
15) ––
16) ––
17) ––
18) ––
19) ––
20) Divine Avatar
Channel Spells: The chosen apostle prepares spells like a cleric, but she can channel stored spell energy to spontaneously cast spells she hasn’t prepared for that day. The chosen apostle “loses” two prepared spells for each spontaneously cast spell, both of which must be of the same spell level or higher than the spell cast. Domain/mystery spell slots cannot be used to cast spells spontaneously, neither oration spell slots. This replaces the spontaneous casting and channel energy abilities.
Domain: A chosen apostle chooses only one domain granted from her chosen deity. She gains her first domain spell and bonus spell slot at 1st level, and gains a new one each time she gains the ability to cast spells of an higher level.
Mystery: The chosen apostle is granted an oracle mystery at 1st level. This can be a mystery granted from her chosen deity, or another deity. The mystery has not to be thematically linked to the chosen apostle’s selected domain; actually, they often are in contrast among themselves. At 1st level, the chosen apostle gains a revelation from her mystery; another revelation is gained at 6th and 13th level. The chosen apostle’s oracle level is equal to her chosen apostle level for the purposes of revelation effects. The chosen apostle gains her mystery’s bonus spells at the same levels of an oracle. This replaces the second domain.
Orisons: A chosen apostle can prepare a number of orations, or 0th–level spells, equal to her number of 1st–level spells per day, +1, up to 6 orations per day.
Sacred Curse: The chosen apostle suffers somewhat for her divided powers and loyalty. Whenever she uses a domain power, she’s considered as having 2 levels less (minimum 1) for the purposes of her revelations for 10 minutes. Whenever she uses a revelation, she suffers the same penalty on domain powers. However, her different divine callings give her a +1 divine bonus on saving throws against divine magic and outsiders’ spell–like powers, plus +1 for every five chosen apostle levels she possesses.
Divine Avatar: At 20th level, the chosen apostle becomes a true avatar of divine forces. She receives a bonus on all saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier. She becomes immune to confusion, exhaustion, fatigue, nausea, and sickened effects. The chosen apostle’s type changes to “outsider (extraplanar), and she may cast commune and plane shift as spell–like abilities once per day each. If the chosen apostle dies, she is reborn 3 days later as a shining godling (treat as the reincarnate spell).
# SORCERER MONK
@ Ki Pool: "This ability stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of the ki pool ability, including the ki pool granted by the Monastic Bloodline."
The intent here is for levels to stack when calculating ki pool sizes? Compare to how a ninja/monk works.
If the ninja possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, ninja levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The ninja can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.
@Insightful: The sorcerer monk has no abilities that key off either Wisdom or Charisma, so this really isn't needed. It is also a bit redundant with having it in the bloodline as well. Perhaps move the AC bonus from the bloodline to the MCA, and then change the bloodline arcana to something else?
@ Insightful Opening: This is quite original and outside the simple concept of a sorcerer/monk. Not saying it is bad, but what makes a sorcerer/monk able to do this, when a regular monk cannot? Feels more like something for a monk AT to have.
@ Perfect Deflection: "...when a targeted spell or spell-like ability fails against a sorcerer monk, she can reflect..." "Fail" here is nebulous. The restriction to targeted spells clears a lot of this up really, but "when a targeted spell or spell-like ability used against the sorcerer monk fails to have any effect on her" might be more clear.
@ Perfect Self: "...or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction". I believe this refers to a 3.5 rule that no longer exists in Pathfinder. Damage reduction in itself does no longer allow you to penetrate damage reduction. Yes, I know this is copied straight from the Monk in the prd, but I believe the prd monk is wrong on this. Or is this intended to be a specific weakness of the monk damage reduction?
# MONASTIC BLOODLINE
Is this really intended to be a stand-on-it's own bloodline that any sorcerer can take? If not, it could be merged into the MCA, replacing generic bloodline abilities with these specific abilities.
It feels to me like a little too much of the oph here lies in the bloodline and too little in the MCA. The MCA does give up spells of level 7+, while the bloodline gives up nothing. Actually, I think all of these abilities could be fitted into the MCA, and the MCA could have a regular bloodlike as well. Specifically, Ki pool, unarmed attacks, and AC could move to the MCA. Ki Pool seems a bit too involved an ability for a bloodline to have. Escalating unarmed damage is basically useless to a 1/2 BAB class anyway. If we want to make an ascetic bloodline (a bloodline feels a bit outside the MCA project focus), I think it would be better to say that the MCA cannot take this bloodline but that other sorcerers can, thus avoiding the conflict on where specific abilities belong. Similar to how Pazio's MCA equivalent prevent taking levels in any of the classes they are based on.
# SORCERER MONK
@ Ki Pool: "This ability stacks with monk levels when determining the effects of the ki pool ability, including the ki pool granted by the Monastic Bloodline."
The intent here is for levels to stack when calculating ki pool sizes? Compare to how a ninja/monk works.
I changed it to the way that the ninja has it written. That's how I wanted it.
@Insightful: The sorcerer monk has no abilities that key off either Wisdom or Charisma, so this really isn't needed. It is also a bit redundant with having it in the bloodline as well. Perhaps move the AC bonus from the bloodline to the MCA, and then change the bloodline arcana to something else?
Actually, as it is a Sorcerer primary, all spellcasting and bloodline powers would be Charisma based, like a normal sorcerer. This would simply make things less MAD. I'm guessing that this is a way for Christos to get his Wisdom-based arcane caster....rrrright Christos? :D
I think we could just make everything work off of Charisma personally, and you're right (as you say later down the post) it may be better to just make the Monastic Bloodline manditory for the MCA, but also a stand alone bloodline.
@ Insightful Opening: This is quite original and outside the simple concept of a sorcerer/monk. Not saying it is bad, but what makes a sorcerer/monk able to do this, when a regular monk cannot? Feels more like something for a monk AT to have.
Actully, this ability and Insightful Strike are based on the Perfect Opening and Perfect Strike abilities of Paizo's Champion of Enlightenment PrC, which has the Still Mind class feature as a prereq (aka the Monk) and Perfect Deflection is based on the ability of the Flowing Monk monk arcehetpye. So, it's very much monk abilities. Also, you are always refering to ATs, what is an "AT"?
@ Perfect Deflection: "...when a targeted spell or spell-like ability fails against a sorcerer monk, she can reflect..." "Fail" here is nebulous. The restriction to targeted spells clears a lot of this up really, but "when a targeted spell or spell-like ability used against the sorcerer monk fails to have any effect on her" might be more clear.
I'll change that.
@ Perfect Self: "...or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction". I believe this refers to a 3.5 rule that no longer exists in Pathfinder. Damage reduction in itself does no longer allow you to penetrate damage reduction. Yes, I know this is copied straight from the Monk in the prd, but I believe the prd monk is wrong on this. Or is this intended to be a specific weakness of the monk damage reduction?
Don't know. It the same word for word on the PF Core Rulebook pdf.
# MONASTIC BLOODLINE
Is this really intended to be a stand-on-it's own bloodline that any sorcerer can take? If not, it could be merged into the MCA, replacing generic bloodline abilities with these specific abilities.
It feels to me like a little too much of the oph here lies in the bloodline and too little in the MCA. The MCA does give up spells of level 7+, while the bloodline gives up nothing. Actually, I think all of these abilities could be fitted into the MCA, and the MCA could have a regular bloodlike as well. Specifically, Ki pool, unarmed attacks, and AC could move to the MCA. Ki Pool seems a bit too involved an ability for a bloodline to have. Escalating unarmed damage is basically useless to a 1/2 BAB class anyway. If we want to make an ascetic bloodline (a bloodline feels a bit outside the MCA project focus), I think it would be better to say that the MCA cannot take this bloodline but that other sorcerers can, thus avoiding the conflict on where specific abilities belong. Similar to how Pazio's MCA equivalent prevent taking levels in any of the classes they are based on.
An ascetic bloodline is outside the MCA focus? Fox, have you looked at the supplements for the MCAs on the wiki? We have specific Schools, Bloodlines, Orders, Domains, etc. for a number of MCAs, most of which can be taken by normal core or base classes with that particular class feature. However, you are right, in that the abilities in the Bloodline may bee too much, while there isn't enough of the good abilities in the MCA itself. He shouldn't necessarily have to take the bloodline to be a functional sorcerer/monk.
Fox makes some good points, although i have seen some sick melee sorcerer builds, with which the monastic bloodline would lend itself well to. Thinking heritage ascetic might be a good name for this. Maybe we should make this bloodline mandatory, anyone else wanna chime in this?
Actually, take a look at this. This will allow the MCA to function well on its own without the Monstic Heritage, but well with it if they choose to be more monk.
STILL NEED A FLAVOR BLURP
Primary: Sorcerer.
Secondary: Monk.
Alignment: Any nonchaotic.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The heritage ascetic selects three monk skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal sorcerer class skills. The heritage ascetic gains a number of ranks at each level equal to +2 Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The heritage ascetic is proficient with simple weapons, plus the brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear and temple sword. A heritage ascetic is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a heritage ascetic's movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Spellcasting: A heritage ascetic casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and adds the following spells at the indicated spell level: 3rd level–delay disease, delay poison, healing thief†; 4th level–neutralize poison, remove disease; 5th–resonating word**. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a heritage ascetic must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class (DC) for a saving throw against a heritage ascetic’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the heritage ascetic’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a heritage ascetic can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Heritage Ascetic. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score.
The heritage ascetic’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A heritage ascetic begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of the heritage ascetic’s choice. At each new heritage ascetic level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Heritage Ascetic Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a heritage ascetic knows is not affected by her Charisma score.
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third heritage ascetic level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a heritage ascetic can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the heritage ascetic “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level heritage ascetic spell the heritage ascetic can cast. A heritage ascetic may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level.
A heritage ascetic need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, ‡Advanced Race Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat).
Arcane Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st level, a heritage ascetic gains the monk’s unarmed strike ability, except that she deals 1d4 points of damage at 1st level. At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1 damage die category (1d6 at 5th, 1d8 at 9th, 1d10 at 13th, and 2d6 at 17th level). These unarmed damage values are for a Medium heritage ascetic. A Small heritage ascetic deals 1 damage die smaller (1d3 at 1st, 1d4 at 5th, 1d6 at 9th, and 1d8 at 13th, and 1d10 at 17th level), while a Large sorcerer deals 1 damage die category larger (1d6 at 1st, 1d8 at 5th, 1d10 at 9th, and 2d6 at 13th, and 2d8 at 17th level).
In addition, at 2nd level, whenever a heritage ascetic casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, she can deliver the spell as part of an unarmed attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a heritage ascetic can make one free unarmed attack at her highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this unarmed attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the heritage ascetic has the monk’s unarmed strike ability, she uses the critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects) of the monk weapon she is wielding, but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
AC Bonus (Su): At 1st level, when a heritage ascetic is unarmored and unencumbered, she adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC and her CMD. In addition, she gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four heritage ascetic levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the heritage ascetic is flat-footed. A heritage ascetic loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she is wearing any armor, when she is carrying a shield, or when she is carrying a medium or heavy load.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level, a heritage ascetic gains the monk’s evasion ability.
Ki Pool (Su): At 4th level, a heritage ascetic gains the monk’s ki pool ability, except that the number of points in her ki pool is equal to 1/2 the heritage ascetic’s level + the heritage ascetic’s Charisma modifier. In addition, as long as a heritage ascetic has at least 1 point in her ki pool, her base attack bonus from her heritage ascetic levels is equal to her heritage ascetic level whenever she makes an unarmed attack or uses a touch spell. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, she uses her normal base attack bonus.
If the heritage ascetic possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, heritage ascetic levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The heritage ascetic can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.
Decisive Opening (Ex): At 7th level, by spending 1 ki point as an immediate action, a heritage ascetic can make an attack of opportunity against an enemy she threatens when that enemy confirms a critical hit against the heritage ascetic or an ally. This attack of opportunity must be an unarmed attack or a touch spell, using the heritage ascetic’s highest attack bonus. The heritage ascetic can make this attack of opportunity even if she would be killed or incapacitated by the critical hit, resolving the attack after the critical hit deals damage but before she falls unconscious or dies. If the heritage ascetic’s attack of opportunity hits, it is automatically a critical threat.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 10th level, a heritage ascetic gains the monk’s improved evasion ability.
Insightful Strike (Su): At 13th level, a heritage ascetic can spend 2 points from her ki pool as a swift action to perfect the next unarmed attack or touch spell attack she makes before the end of her turn. Attack and damage rolls are rolled twice and the heritage ascetic selects which result to use.
Resilient Spells (Su): At 16th level, you can spend 2 ki points to increase the save DC of a single spell that you can cast by +1. These ki points are spent as part of casting the spell.
Timeless Body (Ex): At 19th level, a heritage ascetic gains the monk’s timeless body ability.
Perfect Deflection (Su): At 20th level, a heritage ascetic can spend 3 ki points as a swift action to gain the effects of the Deflect Arrows feat and the protection from arrows spell for a number of minutes equal to her heritage ascetic level. In addition, when a targeted spell or spell-like ability fails to have an effect on her, she can reflect the effect onto its caster as spell turning by spending a number of points from her ki pool equal to 1/2 the spell’s level (minimum 1).
Table: Heritage Ascetic
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 AC bonus, arcane unarmed strike, bloodline power, 1 — — — — —
cantrips, eschew material
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Bloodline spell 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 AC bonus (+1), ki pool (magic) 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Bloodline power 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Bloodline spell 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Decisive opening, ki pool (cold iron/silver) 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 AC bonus (+2), Bonus feat 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Bloodline spell 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Improved evasion, ki pool (lawful) 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Bloodline power 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 AC bonus (+3), Bloodline spell 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Insightful Strike 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Bonus feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 AC bonus (+4), resilient spells 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Bloodline power 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Bloodline spell 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Ki pool (adamantine), timeless body 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 AC bonus (+5), perfect deflection, bonus feat 5 5 5 5 5 5
Your blood has been infused with the rigorous training and mental discipline of the monastic orders throughout the world, allowing you to become one with the infinite comic energies of the universe. This bloodline complements the Heritage Ascetic multiclass archetype.
Class Skill: Acrobatics.
Bonus Spells: expeditious retreat (3rd), glide* (5th), healing thief† (7th), dimension door (9th), spell resistance (11th), age resistance** (13th), resonating word** (15th), mind blank (17th), etherealness (19th). (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat)
Bonus Feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobility, Defensive Combat Training.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell from the transmutation school, your land speed also increases by +10 feet per spell level, up to a maximum of +60 feet. This increase does not stack with any spell that improves your land speed.
Bloodline Powers: You are trained in the mystic knowledge of the ascetics, and can draw upon it to gain an advantage in combat.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): At 1st level, you gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat and deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 for Small, 1d8 for Large) with any unarmed strike. Your attacks may be made with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that you may make unarmed strikes with your hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack when striking unarmed. You may thus apply your full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all your unarmed strikes.
Usually your unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but you can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on your attack roll. You have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. Your unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
If you already possess the Improved Unarmed Strike feat or the monk’s unarmed strike class feature, you gain either Elemental Fist or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. This power counts as the monk’s unarmed strike class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites.
Still Mind (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects. This power counts as the monk’s still mind class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites.
Resilient Body (Su): At 9th level, you gain immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases, and to all poisons. This power counts as both the monk’s purity of body and diamond body class features for the purpose of feat prerequisites.
Diamond Soul (Su): At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your current sorcerer level + 10. In order to affect you with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds your spell resistance.
Perfect Self (Su): At 20th level, you become a magical creature. You are forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever your creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, you gain damage reduction 10/chaotic, which allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonchaotic weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn't have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, you can still be brought back from the dead as if you were a member of your previous creature type.
That is beautiful for multiple reasons, top of my list...top one is still mind in the bloodline. Hello eldritch heritage paladin into champion of iori :)
Flavor blurb
deep in seclusion, there exists a monastic order of those with sorcerous potential. In this order some magical power for martial aptitude to achieve greater balance in their lives. In fact many of these potential sorcerers are descended from powerful monks, thouggh any heritage is welcome.
AT (as I use it here) = Archetype. A bit obscure, I admit.
#Heritage Ascetic
@Christos
Glad you like it. I figured Fox has some solid critiques, so I respliced things to make it more workable as a solid MCA, plus a useful Bloodline foe anyone.
@Starfox
Ah, that makes sense. Now I won't be so confused. :D
What about Heritage Hermit?
Chewing on Chosen Apostle, but its too late to write anything now.
# Chosen Apostle
* Just looking at the flavor would Twice-Chosen Apostle fit?
* I like the concept - it's defintely a harsh design space to work in with neither class having a lot to work with in their essential chassis - the domains and mysteries do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of flavor.
* I dunno, I'm tempted to give her both favored weapons rather than none ;)
* There aren't many revelations gained, and I'd like to see more somehow, perhaps an either/or swap with the 1st/8th level domain powers gained?
@Chosen Apostle
1) I thought the same as OSW, give both deities' favored weapons.
2) Perhaps make a choice at the time she prepares her spells, choose 1 domain and mystery from either deity each day, and that's the domain & mystery (spells and powers) she gets for that day.
Wow, that's very powerful. And here I thought it was too powerful as I made it. However, no objections.
As for the name, I would rather leave it as it is. The Apostle has been jointly chosen for a very specific crusade.
# Chosen Apostle
I am ok with the name and concept of this, but not super-exited.
The chosen apostle feels more like an oracle/cleric than a cleric/oracle to me - has much more of the oracle than the cleric, and even uses the oracle's spells/day. Not a big issue.
I do not feel this is overpowered, except perhaps in the number of spells it can prepare. Oracle spells/day + domain slot is quite a lot. Other than spells, it gives up one domain and channel energy for 3 revelations, a final revelation, and a weak curse with no benefits. A trade-down in my opinion. I feel there is some room for more abilities.
Sacred Curse: The chosen apostle suffers somewhat for her divided powers and loyalty. Whenever she uses a domain power, she’s considered as having 2 levels less (minimum 1) for the purposes of her revelations for 10 minutes. Whenever she uses a revelation, she suffers the same penalty on domain powers. However, her different divine callings give her a +1 divine bonus on saving throws against divine magic and outsiders’ spell–like powers, plus +1 for every five chosen apostle levels she possesses.
I'd simply scrap all of this - it is a bookkeeping nightmare for very little effect. Besides, the original oracle's curse is one of the most fun aspects of the oracle - I'd keep the oracle's normal selection of curses. A curse would also limit the chosen apostle at lower levels, which is good - 3 spells/day + domain slot, domain power, and revelation is quite a lot at 1st level.
@ Spells
I'd give one domain/mystery spell slot per level of spells (like the cleric has a domain slot) which can be used to prepare domain/mystery spells. Maybe this is what you intended - I find this part confusing to read.
The combination of oracle spells/day with preparation and replacement is intriguing. Late spell access combined with many spells prepared gives room to actually use the costly spell substitution.
A more conventional variant would be to use the cleric spells/day list and allows substitution only to cure/inflict spells, domain spells, and revelation spells, at a 1:1 ratio (like the normal cleric substitutes for cure/inflict spells). Not sure this is better, it is just how I'd have instinctively done it myself. This way retains more of the cleric, making this more of a cleric/oracle.
@ Revelations
I'd give revelations at level 1, 3, 11, 19. Most domains give domain powers at level 6-8, so granting a revelation at 6 seems a bit redundant. Also, may revelations offer new selections at either level 7 or 10, so a level 6 revelation misses out on a lot. I also think this AT (AT= archetype) can use the extra revelation. If we feel this is too many revelation, I'd remove the one at 1st level.
@ Divine Avatar
I am ok with this, but would prefer to use the normal oracle's final revelation.