RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Came up at the table last night. GM ruled elves weren't immune, personally I disagreed, but since no one died, I didn't make a stir at the table.
Cloak of dreams for reference.
My feelings were based on the cloak of dreams having the exact spell type and subtype as sleep.
People's thoughts?
I don't see what's ambiguous about "Elves are immune to magic sleep effects". Cloak of Dreams is a magical spell that causes a sleep effect; unless specifically stated otherwise, elves are immune.
I agree that elves should be immune to Cloak of Dreams by the rules as they are.
I haven't the slightest idea why elves are immune to magical sleep effects in the first place, though.
I agree that elves should be immune to Cloak of Dreams by the rules as they are.
I haven't the slightest idea why elves are immune to magical sleep effects in the first place, though.
Its a hold over from 3.5. Which is a holdover from somewhere else too. Elves didn't actually sleep in forgotten realms, just tranced for 4 hours. This isn't true for all 3.5 settings and elves slept in most of them.
But yeah your DM was kinda being silly.
It's a holdover from the Chainmail wargame.
So yeah, it's been there from the very start.
Tolkein's elves didn't get described as sleeping, they were described as having a 'faraway look in the evenings', which could have meant a lot of things, but was interpreted as what came to be reverie.
And your GM was salvaging the win he'd already awarded himself.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Tolkein's elves didn't get described as sleeping, they were described as having a 'faraway look in the evenings', which could have meant a lot of things, but was interpreted as what came to be reverie.
And your GM was salvaging the win he'd already awarded himself.
Nah, it was early in the fight. Don't blame on malice what can be explained by confusion. I've had several GMs not realize, for example, that Ksenia's slumber hex isn't a carbon copy of sleep and ask me where it centers or for a hit die limit.
I just didn't see any point in breaking the game down into an argument when we could post it later. Yeah, if it had resulted in a party death, then we'd likely have stopped and talked it through. We all make mistakes... I've the ex-wives to prove it.
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Tolkein's elves didn't get described as sleeping, they were described as having a 'faraway look in the evenings', which could have meant a lot of things, but was interpreted as what came to be reverie.
And your GM was salvaging the win he'd already awarded himself.
Elves being immune to sleep is not in most of the games I have played, so forgive me as the silly GM, I will chime in.
First, I appreciate Matt telling me he posted this, and I was curious to know what others thought. No one even questioned it until the Magus kept failing the save, and I did not know he was an elf to start with nor was it brought up until later. It was on his 3rd or 4th round of failing the save and getting woke up that Matt or the player mentioned he was an elf.
Waking Rune is a complex adventure and there is a lot going on. I spent well over 50 hours prepping the event and even used dungeon tiles to try and create the room. I thought I was being nice to them even casting cloak of dreams instead of something more direct like chain lightning again. I stated at the time, I had planned on casting repulsion, but did cloak of dreams because I had it printed out already, and it made more sense for the baddie's intent. Outsiders are not immune to sleep and the intentions of the baddie is to eat an outsider, putting them to sleep would have nearly guaranteed that, repelling them would not have.
There is no "win I awarded myself", you can ask anyone who played the game, I had kid gloves on so people could even have fun. Matt fully expected to die. I could have killed the party if I wanted to, but that is not fun or sporting. There is no lessen learned for getting it handed to you, besides people not wanting to play and feeling that they had no chance or "try harder" unless you consider power game or plan better as a lessen. The party did well for the most part, even taking down all runes, they just did not have enough damage. Really only one serious damage dealing character and a few batman's.
When it was brought up, after several rounds I did not stop and read on elves, I do not have an elf character, and it was not "sleep". On the fly I said no, as it made no difference because the battle was well in hand for them at the time. Matt nor the player argued it and if it did lead to the character death I would have dealt with it in the players favor. We discuss these things after the game and review the rules as needed. Players are free to pull references instead of stopping the game for the GM to do it, which I loathe.
Upon reading the elven racial rules, Elves are immune to magic sleep effects. Had the player said something maybe it would have been different, not 3 rounds after the fact and in passing by another player. What did happen after the game is the player realized his will save was wrong.
We tease the player all the time for things like this happening to his character and it was amusing at the time. No one even the player felt robbed. I apologized to him and as I said I believe he would be immune upon reading the rules, but he should have said something to start with.
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Aside Jared,
If I'd not used the Goblinworks boon, that trap would have dropped Ksenia from full + false life to dead dead in one hit. I was doing the math, so it was a good thing.
Clearly my optimization-fu is weak. ;-)
I hope you had fun in any event, I know you felt challenged, which were my goals.
Always happy to help, but my fu is lots of experience, reading and playing in hero lab. Not to mention Rod reviewing my fu.
I was curious how far you were down, but you did get max on your false life. I did roll rather well for it.
I did ask for races early on, but it was for my mental check list for who was an outsider, I did not commit races to memory otherwise.
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The specific racial differences can be tricky and easy to forget, particularly the ones that don't come up too often.
We had an event where I got Crocodile Dundee'd(I actually said I was going to and then walked up to a fountain to fill a waterskin and a monster burst out that was hiding under the water) and it immediately set about paralyzing everyone in the party. It did a wonderful job of it due to some really terrible rolls on our side.
After about 3 rounds which resulted in -everyone- in the party paralyzed and being ready to be coup de graced, we looked over at one of the others who was playing a wyvaran and said 'Wait, you're a dragon right? Can't be paralyzed.' and he saved the day.
His character was basically an idiot(Int 6) and so we just played it off jokingly that he saw the rest of us freeze and did too, figuring it was part of the plan.
Unless the spell specifically says it ignores immunity to sleep,and it does not then elves should be immune to it.
An example is the feat that allows you to use mind affecting spells against undead.
I just noticed the GM chimed in. It seems all is well. :)