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There's also a preview of...
The Investigator. This class blends together elements of the alchemist and the rogue to make for the ultimate sleuth. Using extracts, sneak attack, and a new mechanic called inspiration, the investigator is skilled at putting together clues, finding hidden foes, and striking enemies with precision. Think of him as part Sherlock Holmes, part Doctor Jekyll. Using inspiration, the investigator can add a bonus to certain skill checks, saving throws, and even attack rolls.
Awful name though. Like many of the other hybrid classes announced so far.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Mmm...buzzing with Investigator happiness...
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Mmm...buzzing with Investigator happiness...
Oh yeah making mine right now....well at least his backstory anyways
Indyyyyyy!!!!
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There's also a preview of...
The Investigator. This class blends together elements of the alchemist and the rogue to make for the ultimate sleuth. Using extracts, sneak attack, and a new mechanic called inspiration, the investigator is skilled at putting together clues, finding hidden foes, and striking enemies with precision. Think of him as part Sherlock Holmes, part Doctor Jekyll. Using inspiration, the investigator can add a bonus to certain skill checks, saving throws, and even attack rolls.
Awful name though. Like many of the other hybrid classes announced so far.
The Sleepless Detective prestige class just started making a lot more sense. Too bad I already have an A5/SD3.
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So, of course... they announce this 2 days after I played my latest GM credit character (ok, he's only 2nd level). I guess I'll have to pick one for my next character. A bunch of them look really interesting.
I just hope they are well balanced to the rest of the classes... especially the 'core' classes.
Guess we'll see (and be able to give feedback!)
So the real question is: now that we have a sneak attack alchemist, will people finally stop complaining about vivisectionist?
Probably not. Though it could be exactly what people for looking for or not. Lots of things could ruin it for people, like reduced sneak attack progression or a different spell list. Extracts themselves have a plethora of issues. They might also suffer their own mechanical issues and not be much better than a rogue!(ouch!) Who knows.
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Does anyone know what restrictions were put on beta test classes in the past, if any? Can an existing character take levels in the beta classes? Warpriest sounds like it might work well for my Fighter/Oracle who was about to dip cleric. Here's hoping Warpriest gets channel energy (even if it's reduced progression). If Warpriests get martial weapon proficiency, it might even warrant a retrain of that one level of fighter.
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Y'all might want to wait 11 days after it's released to play PFS with those shiny new classes...Why's that, sir?
Probably for a little somethin' somethin'.
Investigator. Sounds like a great class for a Sharn campaign!
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Does anyone know what restrictions were put on beta test classes in the past, if any? Can an existing character take levels in the beta classes? Warpriest sounds like it might work well for my Fighter/Oracle who was about to dip cleric. Here's hoping Warpriest gets channel energy (even if it's reduced progression). If Warpriests get martial weapon proficiency, it might even warrant a retrain of that one level of fighter.
From the panel at GenCon, the thought at the time was that you could not multiclass hybrid classes with any classes of their components. So a ranger/rogue hybrid can not multiclass with either ranger or rogue. Warpriest is fighter/cleric, so your character cannot have levels of fighter or cleric.
Again, this was in August, so it may have changed since.
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Thanks. I guess I can understand that. I know part of the goal of the new book is to reduce multi-classing. It's not completely consistent with the way the Magus works, but it's not a huge deal. It sounds like retraining might still be an option.
EDIT - Looking forward to seeing the new classes and how it all works on Tuesday.
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I wonder if we're going to be playtesting a few elements of Pathfinder Second Edition. The Investigator, Arcanist, and the Brawler sound eerily like revised versions of the Rogue, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Monk.
We could be seeing Paizo's equivalent to the Warlock, Knight, and Scout. Next-edition ideas in current-edition books. I wonder if Inner Sea Combat will be Paizo's Tome of Battle...
-Matt
More classes is interesting. Further marginalizing multiclassing isn't.
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More classes is interesting. Further marginalizing multiclassing isn't.
It makes sense, considering the long push away from multiclassing since the Core. Paizo has been introducing options which cannot be combined, like archetypes, Style chains (until you can combine them), and Celestial Obedience.
I would not be surprised if multiclassing as gotten rid of altogether in Second Edition. The upside to this approach is that it holds down powercreep. Lots of very strong options can be published, but if they cannot be combined, then there is less of a powercreep effect.
Or, it could be that the Advanced Class Guide is ushering in a "Second Edition" which revises problematic base classes. The Investigator could just be the revised Rogue, for example. They could be fixing the Rogue by just replacing it, and lessening powercreep issues with the multiclass restriction.
-Matt
I'm not a fan of narrowing options in general, and while I am glad that Pathfinder reduced the power-gaming triple class and dip into four prestige classes insanity of 3.5, I disagree with the designers hatred for multiclassing and prestige classes. I would like to see them fixed, not removed.
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I agree, but the way the system is set up, multiclassing is unbalanced. Your saves go WAY off the reservation, while you BAB suffers if you do not take a full BAB class. Then the true problem lies in the scaling of level dependent abilities, such as spellcasting.
You are absolutely right, if multiclassing is to continue as a viable option, some fix needs to be introduced, but I don't see one with the rules that we have.
I agree, but the way the system is set up, multiclassing is unbalanced. Your saves go WAY off the reservation, while you BAB suffers if you do not take a full BAB class. Then the true problem lies in the scaling of level dependent abilities, such as spellcasting.
You are absolutely right, if multiclassing is to continue as a viable option, some fix needs to be introduced, but I don't see one with the rules that we have.
Use fractional. That goes a long way, but its considered a houserule instead of core. Doesn't help progression of abilities though, and that can really sting!
Use fractional. That goes a long way, but its considered a houserule instead of core. Doesn't help progression of abilities though, and that can really sting!
I think Fractional BAB and saves, plus reducing the Good saves to the same progression as prestige classes use (maybe have a favoured class option to raise a save by 1/3 or so to keep the maximum higher for single classed characters) would do a lot to balance multiclassing all by themselves. A few multiclass-focused feats (possibly instead of a jillion new hybrid classes to cover ever possible pairing) to allow partial progression of the abilities of two classes and multi classing could be a viable (and still slightly suboptimal) option again.
Doesn't really matter though; I doubt that Paizo is going to consider a revised edition for a few more years (even though I'd really like to see them do it). Certainly not until well after they see the effect 5th does or does not have on the market.
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The other two classes were dropped in an interview at EN World:
Brawler: This class blends the fighter and the monk, creating a warrior whose sole focus is unarmed combat and martial maneuvers, without any of the mysticism of the monk. This class is designed specifically to beat up monsters, with a full base attack bonus progression (like a fighter) and improved unarmed strike damage (like a monk). To top it off, the class is also very skilled at making combat maneuvers.
Skald: Taking parts of the bard and the barbarian, this class can rage and inspire rage in its allies (we initially called it the “bard-barian” in-house). Instead of inspiring speeches and words of encouragement, the skald incites fury and anger in his allies, allowing them all to go on a murderous rampage.
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Skald: Taking parts of the bard and the barbarian, this class can rage and inspire rage in its allies (we initially called it the “bard-barian” in-house). Instead of inspiring speeches and words of encouragement, the skald incites fury and anger in his allies, allowing them all to go on a murderous rampage.
A player in my Serpent's Skull group plays a Savage Skald Bard. I think she will be VERY interested in this hybrid to replace it :-)
Skald: Taking parts of the bard and the barbarian, this class can rage and inspire rage in its allies (we initially called it the “bard-barian” in-house). Instead of inspiring speeches and words of encouragement, the skald incites fury and anger in his allies, allowing them all to go on a murderous rampage.
I was hoping for it to be called a bardbarian for some reason...