inhuman_candyman
|
Ok i need all you minmaxers out there for this guy. My only stipulations is this character must be society legal. I want to build that doesn't focus on damage dealing at all. Here are the things i want from this character listed in order of importance. Try to incorporate as many as you can into the build as possible.
Assist party in combat but not dealing damage.
Skill monkey
High AC and saves (i don't want to get knocked out for helping everyone)
Use all wands
In general i want a character who more than makes up for not dealing any combat damage by his ability to always being able to help. I want the best support character you can possibly build.
| Rynjin |
That can be done a pretty hefty number of ways, I think.
My personal favorite for a buffer is Bard, though.
-Best skill monkeys in the game
-Can easily be Dex focused (especially especially since you don't want any combat, though down the line this can be converted into a decent combat ability)
-Cha focus makes UMD a definite possibility.
PFS is 20 PB, isn't it?
Level 1 quick build I'd say:
Level 1 Human Bard
Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 16
(Before racial bonus. More AC if you put it in Dex, higher save DC if you wanna dip into some debuffs and such too. Otherwise, 16 is really as high as you'll ever need)
Feat: Buncha options here depending on how you wanna play it starting off, defensively. Toughness to take a hit, Dodge to make them miss entirely more often, Great Fortitude to shore up your weak Fort save...really up to you. Skill Focus might be good as well. Any two of the above. OR take the Alternate Racial Trait Focused Study, which gives you Skill Focus for free, and two more times down the line. Not a bad deal for a skill monkey.
Skills: 9 per level (6 class, +1 Int, +1 Human, +1 Favored Class)
Suggested skills:
Perception
Use Magic Device
Bluff
Spellcraft
Perform: Oratory (at 2nd you will replace this bonus for your Diplomacy and Sense Motive scores, hold off until then)
4 "Wild Cards" (Probably Knowledges, perhaps Stealth/Sleight of Hand/Etc., maybe Linguistics, depends on your focus)
Spells known:
0th: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Prestidigitation (last two can really be anything you want)
1st: Feather Fall and Saving Finale (not sure on that second one, could easily be replaced with a few others. I Like a lot of the 1st level Bard spells).
Yeah, really simple build, and barebones, but is a good framework for any sort of buffer you'd like to be, I think.
| Samasboy1 |
Are you okay with debuffing enemies?
I think spells like Sleep or Slow should be okay for a pacifist, but they do meet the definition of attack in Invisibility so I want to know how you feel about them.
Most casters should be able to accomplish what you want, its just a matter of play style. Buffing the party, and debuffing enemies, are actually a very effective tactic.
Thalin
|
Or if you want the Melee Monk-type that doesn't deal damage but does everything you ask:
Tengu 3 Fighter (Lore Warden) / 2 Monk (Manuever Master)
Str: 7
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Dex: 18 (20 after magic item, and technically +1 because you'd put the level-up here in preparation for 8th level).
Con: 12
Chr: 12
6 skill points / level, which should generally be focused around sneaking, perception, and some knowledges... as well as Dangerously Curious (hey, you wanted to use wands).
At level 5, pre-items he is:
Reflex: +9
Will: +7
Fort: +7
Which you'll have to agree is quite good. He also has evasion.
Traits: Dangerously Curious, the one that gives +1 to CMB
Alt Racial Trait: Claws (over swords).
And now to make him useful:
Lore Warden 1: Agile Manuevers, Improved Grapple
MM 1: Improved Trip
LW2: Combat Expertise, Ki Throw, Skill Focus (Use Magic Devices)
MM2: Improved Dirty Trick
Magic Items: Assortment of Wands (Shield and Mage Armor, Cure Light Wounds, whatever else you want @ 2 PP each... should have nice selection), Red Ioun Stone slotted into Wayfinder, +2 Dex Belt, probably a +1 Cloak of Resistance
So your attack is usually Claw / Claw / Bite / Manuever, and the Claw / Claw / Bite all become manuevers (either disarm or trip). Your CMB should be (Level 5 + Dex 5 + 3 for magic items +2 for feat +1 for trait +2 Lore Warden) around +18 (-2 for flurry), so very few things at this level will need more than a 4 or so to be hit with a manuever.
So typically vs one foe you'll trip him, disarm him, then grapple him. Vs a group you'll trip 3 of them and use Improved Dirty trick to blind one of them. If you can pass up the skill focus you can have binding throw, which would allow you to trip / blind / grapple him all in one turn.
Your AC will be 18 at this level, but 22 if you use a Wand of Mage Armor and 26 if you buff yourself first round of combat with a Wand of Shield.
For the wands, I gave you the skill focus (though if you don't mind waiting a few levels that could be binding ki throw). This puts your UMD at this level at:
5 (skill points)
+1 (dangerously curious)
+3 (Skill Focus)
+3 (Class skill thanks to DC)
at a nice even +12; meaning you can drop Mage armors and heal yourself if no casters are available.
Thalin
|
For true support, as people state, you need a bard. My personal favorite for the job is the Archivist; and Aasimar helps because he gets improved Inspire Courage if you use his favored class bonus (+2 at level 4, +3 at levels 8-10, +4 at levels 12-16 relative; at those level ranges he is +1 relative to a "normal" bard).
The archivist's ability adds to armor class, which can really help a bodyguard build.
Azretha Aasimar Archivist Bard 5
Str: 7
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Cha: 16
Traits: Adopted (by halflings), the one that makes Disable Device Class skill (oversight for archavist that they don't have it as class skill since they have trapfinding)
Feats:
1) Combat Reflexes
3) BodyGuard
5) Arcane Strike
At this level he has:
Gloves of Arcane Strike
+1 Mithril Benevolent Armor
+1 Darkwood Heavy Wooden Shield
Masterwork Cestus
+1 Cloak of Resistance
So at this level, he starts off most dungeons by dropping 3 Heroisms on various group members, yielding +2 to saves / skill checks / to hit.
He starts each combat by taking 10 to identify all monsters (1 rank in each knowledge yields an 18, which should identify pretty much everything). Then he starts his performance, granting another +2 to hit, +2 to AC, and +2 to all non-spell saves.
During subsequent round, he buffs party members or does an assist to attack for one of the melees while trying to stay beside as many people as possible. A successful assist from him yields +4 to hit, +2 damage (the latter from Gloves of Arcane Strike).
5 times per turn, when someone is attacked, he AOOs to provide them an additional +7 to AC (+4 Aid Another with Helpful, +2 Gloves of Arane Strike, +1 Benevolent Armor)
So there's the Buffy McAssist build :).
| Umbranus |
For buffing I would make sure to take the flagbearer feat.
That way you always buff, no matter what you do with your actions.
In the end my "enigmatic sage" concept I recently had would fulfil at least some of your requirements:
Gnome Ninja 2/bard 2
Feats: flagbearer, bewildering koan
Str: 6
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 20 (including level 4 increase)
This guy uses flagbearer and bardic music to buff, bewildering koan to debuff, forces the bad guys to waste actions drinking booze by casting beguiling gift and handing them flasks of booze labled healing potion.
In addition he can be a flanking partner.
As alternate racial trait take gift of tongues because that gives you +1 to bluff and an additional language each time you take linguistics. That's good because bewildering koan is language dependant.
AC and saves will not be uber high but he can buff, debuff, assist by flanking and do other nice stuff. And while doing all that he is a pain in the backside but, most likely, not dangerous enough to be target #1.
And, as the stuff you will be doing mostly isn't offensive, you can always cast vanish and continue buffing invisible. Be sure to use inspire courage with audible components if you want to do this.
| Gallyck |
Another possibility is Strategist Cavalier.
You get d10 hit dice and full Base Attack. (Manuever defenses)
Trait in UMD for Wand Usage.
You can provide teamwork feats which dependent on party composition can be a awesome (PFS play will be hard to pick which feats but eh)
Banner buffs as well.
Just a thought. Bard will be better and have more skills.
| Renegadeshepherd |
Though I agree the bard is likely best. A build could be made based on inquisitor/cleric
Hybrid. Using domains that grant initiative to your allies, buff spells, and such. I can't give a full list or possible build for this concept since I'm at work break ATM but a cleric is worth a look IMO. The saves would be strong, AC can be very high, skills are moderate.
More to come later.
| Addem Up |
Though I agree the bard is likely best. A build could be made based on inquisitor/cleric
Hybrid. Using domains that grant initiative to your allies, buff spells, and such. I can't give a full list or possible build for this concept since I'm at work break ATM but a cleric is worth a look IMO. The saves would be strong, AC can be very high, skills are moderate.More to come later.
The Evangelist archetype might be interesting as well. It's basically the lovechild of a bard and a cleric.
| Renegadeshepherd |
this is something of a work in progress as ive never tried to min max this idea. but ill throw these out to c how you respond...
1) A sensei/ki mystic monk... wait for the hate...... ok we good? a sensei from the start functions in a manner very similar to the bard. He has comparable skill list in his class, has better saves, is not nearly as MAD as some of the bards, AC is not overly strong but is solid and is almost always the same in any situation. Add the ki mystic archetype with the sensei u have A) boosts to skills at a cost, B) near constant boosts to knowledge skills (that are class skills thx to sensei) and C) at level 5+ u get limited rerolling for allies for saves or attacks. I do not as yet see a good synergy of archetypes beyond these two but there are more that could be included. For this build your going to need a wisdom mod OR something with secondary and tertiary. Human, aasimar, and dwarf are likely the best choices (id go human since u wanted skills).
Interestingly enough a tiefling shouldn't be discarded in this build though. +2 dex, +2 INT with the dump stat of CHA -2 isn't bad. But perhaps most important is the fact that he has A) "Armor of the pit" feat and base fiendish resistance or B) Scaled skin racial trait to choose from gives the tiefling more AC potential than any monk that I know of. Plus the resistance to electric, cold, or fire isn't bad. At level 1 you could gain deflect arrows feat for free for even more protection of self.
Id say your level 1 stats would be something like this without any feats or racial mods.
St 10
DX 16
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 7
AC 16/17 (dodge feat?) FORT +3 REF +5 WILL +5 but could lower dex for more int.
If you like tiefling for the defense...
St 7
Dx 14 (16)
Con 11
INT 14 (16)
WIS 18
CHA 7 (5)
AC 17/18/19 (see above choices) FORT +2 REF +5 WILL +6
If teifling chosen id choose deflect arrows for bonus feat as that makes hitting you with anything but melee very hard.
EDIT: You will want combat expertise fairly early for your idea as well, as that is more AC for someone who probably wont care much for BAB. when and how u do this is a judgement call but this may be the backbone of you making yourself very durable.
Option #2 is the cleric... coming soon. even more can be said on that.
inhuman_candyman
|
Wow everyone is coming up with so many ideas and i still havd no clue which route im going. I need this character by sat to play a society Marathon. But i have never built or played a character like this. I can build arcane cannons all day, i can build a damage dealing monster that is unrivaled, i can build the sneakiest rouge assassins ever. But i have no idea how to build support characters that still have flair. Most of you are mentioning traits, feats, spells and archetypes that i have no idea what they do because in building my broken power characters I've completely disregarded them.
Now i want to switch gears and play the support character and im completely lost. Its funny that i have played dnd for over 12 years now and now play pathfinder and have never even sat down and looked at a bard, never have i considered playing one because they always just looked like little b@~%+es. I've always wanted a master in their trade. Now i want a true jack of all trades. If i throw out the idea of being a pacifist and just say i just don't want damage dealing high on his priority lists, what can you guys come up with? You might need to explain the build in detail because like i said i haven't played on of these characters ever. I want the support character you would always want in your party. Not a liability where you feel like your carrying him. Someone that is always helpful to have around. Like the swiss army knife. Throw a little combat in just incase he gets into a pinch but no need to.focus to much on it.
As i was looking i was getting interested in a halfling bard/ranger because as i see it i would have all skills as class skills... thoughts?
If someone could optimize this build it would be really awesome or tell me where the flaws in this is.
| Renegadeshepherd |
Part 2...
after looking into cleric or inquisitors ive concluded the possibilities are limitless. I don't know how the OP feels about copping a feel on his party with the dozens of different touch buffs a cleric has and such so ill just throw out a first draft min/max. But I have to say that getting many skills with a cleric is tough.
ST 13
DX 12
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 12
AC 19 when u can afford good armor and a shield. Fort + 4 REF +4 WILL +6
Domains: Protection/defense and Luck
Protection offers scaling increases to saves while defense offers two different limited buffs to large area for your party. Domain spells for protection/defense is just great for ur purpose. Luck is just too good to pass up. The only downside is Shelyn is the only goddess who offers this combination that I know of. If that is not acceptable seek out good or law to compliment protection.
Spells: guidance is bread and butter when u don't need to use a power/spell to gain control. protection from.. is all u will need for the tank for many levels. pick what scales when u can.
Race: Go human if u really want skills and pick fast learner for ur extra feat so that u get 6 skill points without losing that important +1 hp from favored class. Aasimar would be even better if u can live without being the skill monkey.
Tip: don't use a power just because u can. when ur party has the situation in hand let em mop up. if u must do something go flank a guy just to help out the fighter as that buffs him
| Renegadeshepherd |
Wow everyone is coming up with so many ideas and i still havd no clue which route im going. I need this character by sat to play a society Marathon. But i have never built or played a character like this. I can build arcane cannons all day, i can build a damage dealing monster that is unrivaled, i can build the sneakiest rouge assassins ever. But i have no idea how to build support characters that still have flair. Most of you are mentioning traits, feats, spells and archetypes that i have no idea what they do because in building my broken power characters I've completely disregarded them.
Now i want to switch gears and play the support character and im completely lost. Its funny that i have played dnd for over 12 years now and now play pathfinder and have never even sat down and looked at a bard, never have i considered playing one because they always just looked like little b#&#&es. I've always wanted a master in their trade. Now i want a true jack of all trades. If i throw out the idea of being a pacifist and just say i just don't want damage dealing high on his priority lists, what can you guys come up with? You might need to explain the build in detail because like i said i haven't played on of these characters ever. I want the support character you would always want in your party. Not a liability where you feel like your carrying him. Someone that is always helpful to have around. Like the swiss army knife. Throw a little combat in just incase he gets into a pinch but no need to.focus to much on it.As i was looking i was getting interested in a halfling bard/ranger because as i see it i would have all skills as class skills... thoughts?
If someone could optimize this build it would be really awesome or tell me where the flaws in this is.
I don't know about bard/ranger builds and I never played a Halfling so im out of my element there. I believe that they would not work well since one is a support role and one is a traditional front man like a fighter or paladin. I don't see the synergy. But if u want a build for a jack of all trades here is my latest creation and I think its really good....
Tiefling Inquisitor 1/Rogue 1-19
STR 10
DEX 16(18)
CON 12
INT 12 (14)
WIS 16
CHA 7 (5)
Favored class bonus is your choice really but id take health.
BTW ur rogue talent and feats hit at same level since u took inquisitor first.
LV 1 feat: Armor of the Pit (extra AC)
LV 3 Rogue Talent: Weapon finesse
LV 3 Feat: Dervish Dance
LV 5 Rogue Talent: Weapon training
LV 5 Feat: Improved Initiative
LV 7 Rogue Talent: Combat trick for toughness
LV 7 Feat: Whatever u want
By this point ur set and can make what u want really.
WHY/HOW IS HE A JACK OF ALL TRADES????
1) He is a potent mouth piece/face. Id take the Conversion inquisition and "infiltrator" archetype of the inquisitor. Doubling ur wisdom modifier of +3 in bluff and diplomacy is ridiculously good and you get class skill bonus on top of that for a +10 out of the gate. Other social skills like sense motive also get good scores with small effort.
2) You are going to be one of the best skill monkeys there is. While a human could have more skills or skill points you are not far behind. Id take the social skills, perception of course, and the dex skills like stealth and acrobatics. You will have 10 or more skill points a level so use ur imagination.
3) In battle you are HARD to kill. Evasion laughs at spellcasters. your AC by level 3 without any special circumstances is 20+ in a chain shirt. with that AC you can easily be an off tank or get into the thick of things without too much fear.
4) SNEAK ATTACK: Situational damage but when it happens no one is going to complain.
5) JUDGEMENTS: There is enough options in this alone to choke a horse but you can change your tactics to the situation even more with even the one level dip of the inquisitor. Choosing between +1 to saves, AC, and to hit isn't an easy choice but ill take this burden any day.
In short u do everything but spellcasting, well!
PS: the only skills that aren't a class skill with my combo is fly, handle animal, and two knowledge skills (engineering and history?)
| Renegadeshepherd |
Renegadeshepherd,
Conversion Inquisition and Infiltrator archetype don't stack. You can only stack bonuses that specifically say that they may stack. Both add your Wis Mod to your bluff/diplomacy so only 1 functions since they're the same bonus.
A +7 is still pretty good though.
I haven't kept up with the FAQ as of late but last time I personally investigated that matter it was just someone from paizo who didn't like that, have they made that official now?
But if this is true it does not cripple the idea. rather a new inquisition or domain that doesn't say "based on cleric/inquisitor level" need be chosen. Too bad Sarenrae doesn't give tactics inquisition. Order Inquisition is worthwhile as its a self buff 3-4 times a day with protection from chaos.