| dark78660 |
That's an interesting question, official rules wise I don't have an answer for this.
Personally I would say one of two options.
1. That it cant be used with an AoMF.
or
2. You don’t gain Electricity Immunity, but gain all the other benefits.
But for such a cheep price to gain Electricity Immunity, that is certainly not RAI. I'm pretty sure RAW will be about the same as far as character gaining immunity. But maybe this needs an FAQ?
| SwiftyKun |
Okay, this one's a little tricky. It's very picky about the wording, so follow along with me.
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.
Reading both descriptions as they are, yes, you can get grounding on your amulet, and yes, the grounding enchantment would apply to your unarmed attacks. You will also benefit from the extra damage vs air subtypes and the +2 vs air and electricity saving throws.
However! The grounding enchantment specifically says the immunity is for the weapon only. While monks are indeed considered weapons of mass destruction, and they are in fact considered armed because of their fists of fury...monks are not weapons, they are monks. So no, you wouldn't be immune to electricity.
I would personally rule, though, that whatever parts of your body that you can attack unarmed with as listed through the monks improved unarmed proficiency, that you use as weapons, gain the immunity trait but, This does not keep an electrical elemental from shocking your face, chest, or any part of your body that it did not list you being able to attack with.(Therefore no immunity, but you can touch eletrical surfaces without being harmed.)
| Revan |
Okay, this one's a little tricky. It's very picky about the wording, so follow along with me.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Reading both descriptions as they are, yes, you can get grounding on your amulet, and yes, the grounding enchantment would apply to your unarmed attacks. You will also benefit from the extra damage vs air subtypes and the +2 vs air and electricity saving throws.
However! The grounding enchantment specifically says the immunity is for the weapon only. While monks are indeed considered weapons of mass destruction, and they are in fact considered armed because of their fists of fury...monks are not weapons, they are monks. So no, you wouldn't be immune to electricity.
I would personally rule, though, that whatever parts of your body that you can attack unarmed with as listed through the monks improved unarmed proficiency, that you...
Likewise, you could probably attack a monster who would normally deal electric damage to those who hit it with an unarmed strike or natural weapon without fear.
| Acolyte |
Unfortunately, I think the property would make you immune to electric damage.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qd3
Unarmed Strike: For the purpose of magic fang and other spells, is an unarmed strike your whole body, or is it a part of your body (such as a fist or kick)?
As written, the text isn't as clear as it could be. Because magic fang requires the caster to select a specific natural attack to affect, you could interpret that to mean you have to do the same thing for each body part you want to enhance with the spell (fist, elbow, kick, knee, headbutt, and so on).
However, there's no game mechanic specifying what body part a monk has to use to make an unarmed strike (other than if the monk is holding an object with his hands, he probably can't use that hand to make an unarmed strike), so a monk could just pick a body part to enhance with the spell and always use that body part, especially as the 12/4/2012 revised ruling for flurry of blows allows a monk to flurry with the same weapon (in this case, an unarmed strike) for all flurry attacks.
This means there is no game mechanical reason to require magic fang and similar spells to specify one body part for an enhanced unarmed strike. Therefore, a creature's unarmed strike is its entire body, and a magic fang (or similar spell) cast on a creature's unarmed strike affects all unarmed strikes the creature makes.
The text of magic fang will be updated slightly in the next Core Rulebook update to take this ruling into account.—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/01/13
RAW says an unarmed strike counts the entire body as a potential striking surface (no matter how absurd it may be), so grounding would allow any part of it to be immune to electrical damage. While the potential is there for abuse, you have to remember that the character had to trade off a +1 enchantment on an item that has a hard cap of +5, and can't be quickly changed out unlike a backup weapon.
EDIT: Nevermind, found the abuse. Nothing says you have to be a monk or actively using unarmed strike to have the benefit, and since anyone can technically make an unarmed strike, there's nothing saying that the wizard wears one with grounding, thawing, neutralizing, etc. If this ever came up in a home game, I'd take away the immunities, but still allow the saving throws and other effects.
| Acolyte |
Has anyone found a way to prove me wrong, because I'd really appreciate that. I realize that a home GM can simply say no or alter it, but for PFS which must use RAW, this seems questionable. 4000 gp for an immunity to one type of elemental damage? Minor ring of elemental resistance costs 3x that, caps at resist 10, and lacks the damage and saving throw bonus.
| Acolyte |
Which is why I want this clarified. Because as it is, I can not find a RAW reason why a character with this enchantment on an AoMF does not become immune to that element so long as the amulet is worn. I agree that it should have some disclaimer that removes the general immunity if applied to the AoMF (or restricts the immunity to the amulet itself).
At best, the wording could imply that the immunity is only in effect when the weapon in question is actively wielded.
| Zahmahkibo |
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.
Immunity to electric damage enhances the weapon, but it doesn't affect the attacks made with the weapon. So, I agree with SwiftyKun's reasoning: the monk gets the bonus to damage vs. air creatures, and the wielder's bonus to certain saves, but not the electric damage immunity.
But yeah, it's ambiguous enough. I'm sure I'm not the first to notice, but counting *entire monk* as a weapon opens up a lot of abuses and non-intuitive interactions even without AoMF, and grounding isn't even strangest enhancement you can put on a person.
What happens when you get a monk with a throwing-enhanced amulet, cast Returning Weapon on him, and have another monk chuck him off a cliff? If a monk equips an anarchic amulet, does he become an ex-monk? Does Weaponwand have a disturbing new application?
| Tharken |
I sunder the monk. He gains the broken condition.
I disarm the monk using Greater Disarm, sending his body flying. Alternately, since I have free hands, I am now holding the monk.
That would all fly if it wasn't for this wording :
You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent.
If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice
The character's body being a weapon doesn't make it an item, nor does he carry it. Incidentally, that wording is also why you can't sunder or disarm natural weapons.
| Lyee |
Seems like "Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks." would not work with "The wielder of a grounding weapon receives a +2 competence bonus on saving throws against air- and electricity-based effects, and the weapon itself is immune to electricity damage." - RAW, anything that applies 'while wielded' doesn't seem to apply to an Amulet of Mighty Fists, only things that apply during an attack roll. I would rule you gain neither the +2 saving throw or the electricity immunity. (And can only touch charge surfaces without harm if it is intended to attack the surface).
James Risner
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So, the Amulet of Mighty Fists can give a the wearer weapon special properties, the Grounding Property states the Weapon is Immune to Electrical damage, does that mean an Amulet with Grounding makes the wearer Immune to Electrical damage?
No of course not, because if this were true I could use Sunder to Sunder your Unarmed Strike to deal hit point damage to you without hitting your AC.
Or you attack a Caryatid Column with Shatter Weapon and take hit point damage because you used Unarmed Strike. (No you don't.)
| Zahmahkibo |
You can only sunder objects or items. The amulet itself would be a valid target, but the monk isn't an object or item himself.
For Shatter Weapons, though, I can't find a conclusive rule on the books for why it shouldn't damage the monk beyond a post by James Jacobs. I'm happy to accept JJ's ruling in this case, but unless he's made similar statements about the questions here, the Shatter Weapons example doesn't prove anything.
| Bizbag |
I'd say the amulet with the Grounding property would be immune to electrical damage for the purpose of attacking, just as if you were wieldin a weapon with the property. I don't think it would grant the character blanket immunity to electricity. So you could safely punch an electrified wire, but you aren't immune to a blue dragon. You'd get the +2 bonus against the dragon, of course.
| Ian Meadows |
Honestly, while this combination is quite powerful, I believe Acolyte is probably right that it probably does make the wearer of the amulet immune to the damage type specified by the weapon trait. That being said, it probably will get banned by Pathfinder Society as they have banned a class archetype that can give itself immunity to all energy types permanently without a gold cost by level 7, namely the Synthesist Summoner.
In non Pathfinder Society play, this combination is probably not overpowered considering the myriad of ways that players already have to enhance themselves.
In Pathfinder Society play though, considering the massive amount of restrictions placed on players to tone down their power level I believe the weapon traits will probably be banned in that format or not be allowed to be used with the amulet once it comes to light to the people who make the rules for Pathfinder Society.