According to Bestiary 4 (or so I'm told--the 30th can't come quickly enough!), Cernunnos, Cthulhu, and Pazuzu are CR 30, which is Paizo's capstone. Higher than that and you're in god territory. I don't know much about Cernunnos, but Pazuzu has fought post-ascension Lamashtu several times, and Cthulhu... well, Cthuuhl ftagn. Of course, this has led me to wonder: who are the others? Who are the other big kids on the block? These are some of my guesses and the reasons, and please feel free to add your own.
I'll stick with the Demon Lords for now:
Abraxus. He's one of the oldest, and the Final Incantation is suitably super-powerful.
Deskari. Mostly for meta reasons. WotR is just going for broke, and to my mind it would make sense for it to end with a fight with the most powerful opponent possible. I don't know if he's normally that powerful, but we're dealing with power-boosting artifacts, so who's to say that he can't get a little boost in time to fight a party of level 20 MR 10 PCs?
Nocticula. Most of the others are afraid of her, and it looks like even Lamashtu is concerned. That's a telling sign.
Orcus. I confess to D&D Nostalgia Goggles. This one could go either way, depending on whether he lives up to his worshipers' hype or not. He might not, but I have this vision of uninformed mythic adventurers saying "Oh this is a minor demon lord, look at the small cult! How much trouble could he-- RETREAT! OH SWEET MERCIFUL GODS RETREAT!"
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Of the devils, I'd have to say that it's a tie between Mephistopheles (being made by Asmodeus himself from the land of Hell itself), or possibly the mysterios Barbatos.
Of the daemons, definitely Charon. He is the first Horseman of Death and the only one to date.
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Lets see, there are like a dozen Ashura Ranas, of which we can probably say 2-3 are CR30, simply based on how many there are (similar to how there are probably a few more demon lords up there). I would guess Ahriman would be a CR30 creature as lord of the Div (and he holy has 4 domains, so isn't in the full god category). Again, like the Ashuras, the Oni Daimyo likely have 1 or 2 of the ten up there around 30. Also the Raksasha Immortals: Ravana the First and Last is probably one, with another up there too based again on volume of them.
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Orcus. I confess to D&D Nostalgia Goggles. This one could go either way, depending on whether he lives up to his worshipers' hype or not. He might not, but I have this vision of uninformed mythic adventurers saying "Oh this is a minor demon lord, look at the small cult! How much trouble could he-- RETREAT! OH SWEET MERCIFUL GODS RETREAT!"
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Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.
Achekek (not in Bestiary 4). Cthulhu, Pazuzu and Cernunnos were all CR30 statted creatures in Bestiary 4.
He's CR 26, as per Mythic Realms.
I should have known that, I have that book...
Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.
So is Baba Yaga the most powerful mortal (or once-mortal) in the PFRPG setting?
I want to say that James Jacobs has said that as far as Demon Lords go, only Pazuzu, Nocticula, and Deskari are CR 30.
I have heard no word on the other demigod scores, although Charon at least should be CR 30, as oldest and original Horsemen of Death.
Curious about Mammon myself. Bonded with the wealth of Hell has to have given him some freakish powers and some ridiculously difficult conditions to kill him.
Achekek (not in Bestiary 4). Cthulhu, Pazuzu and Cernunnos were all CR30 statted creatures in Bestiary 4.
I should have known that, I have that book...
I think Achekek (sp?) has been retconned to be a full god now, and above CR 30.
Baba Yaga would be the most powerful known mortal in the setting. The only mortals that have surpassed her did so by becoming full-on deities (Aroden, Norgorber, etc.) Baba Yaga probably COULD be a diety, but the notion of having people pray to her, and having to listen to them, actually kind of horrifies her. She does NOT want to hear about your problems. She hates you enough as is.
I'd expect Orcus to be a CR 29, as he's extremely powerful but isn't actually at the pinnacle of demonhood - that position belongs to Demogorgon in the DnD cosmology, and in Pathfinder belongs to the entities already described above.
Of the Archdukes of Hell...
Mephistopheles is the logical choice for CR 30. I'd expect Baalzebul to be a CR 29, while Dispater is probably CR 26 but has an insane home field advantage (up to possibly actual invincibility) if confronted in the Iron City.
I think Achekek (sp?) has been retconned to be a full god now, and above CR 30.
Achekek (not in Bestiary 4). Cthulhu, Pazuzu and Cernunnos were all CR30 statted creatures in Bestiary 4.
I should have known that, I have that book...
I hope not. That would be a waste of a cool kaiju sized monster.
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Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.
Achekek (not in Bestiary 4). Cthulhu, Pazuzu and Cernunnos were all CR30 statted creatures in Bestiary 4.
I haven't seen Bestiary 4 yet though I assumed there would be some CR 30 baddies in there. The demon lords in Wrath of the Righteous haven't hit CR 30 yet though I have no doubt that Deskari will. I mentioned 'so far' because I was not aware of anyone else matching her but assumed that someone will soon.
I just looked up Achekek on www.d20pfsrd.com and damn, I never heard of him before. He looks to be a powerhouse but he was published under 3.5 so I wonder if he would still be CR 30 under Pathfinder rules.
[EDIT]
Now that I do a little poking around I see that the Oliphaunt of Jandelay from Mythic Realms is CR 30.
I guess protean Lord of Entropy
and of the Eldest Shyka the Many
The only two guys I am quite sure will hit 30 are:
Charon: for reasons said above by others.
Mephistopheles: there must be at least one devil(as the standard outsider race for LE) who hits the 30, and he is the Devil King, an entire layer of Hell made into flesh.
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I want to say that James Jacobs has said that as far as Demon Lords go, only Pazuzu, Nocticula, and Deskari are CR 30.
I have heard no word on the other demigod scores, although Charon at least should be CR 30, as oldest and original Horsemen of Death.
Curious about Mammon myself. Bonded with the wealth of Hell has to have given him some freakish powers and some ridiculously difficult conditions to kill him.
Not sure where I said Deskari was CR 30... but that was a lie. He's CR 29.
Pazuzu and Nocticula are both CR 30 though for sure.
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Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.Achekek (not in Bestiary 4). Cthulhu, Pazuzu and Cernunnos were all CR30 statted creatures in Bestiary 4.I haven't seen Bestiary 4 yet though I assumed there would be some CR 30 baddies in there. The demon lords in Wrath of the Righteous haven't hit CR 30 yet though I have no doubt that Deskari will. I mentioned 'so far' because I was not aware of anyone else matching her but assumed that someone will soon.
I just looked up Achekek on www.d20pfsrd.com and damn, I never heard of him before. He looks to be a powerhouse but he was published under 3.5 so I wonder if he would still be CR 30 under Pathfinder rules.
[EDIT]
Now that I do a little poking around I see that the Oliphaunt of Jandelay from Mythic Realms is CR 30.
Achaekek is beyond CR 30 in Pathfinder; he's a full on deity and thus beyond stats. And this isn't really a ret-con... different games and all. Think of it more as a conversion. If you look at the list of demon lords in Pathfinder 18 you'll see that their CRs skew a tiny bit higher there as well, since 3.5 had a different (infinitely expanding) upper level limit.
Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.So is Baba Yaga the most powerful mortal (or once-mortal) in the PFRPG setting?The closest one to her that I can recall offhand would be Runelord Xanderghul, who was supposedly CR 27-ish according to James Jacobs. Arazni and Tar-Baphon are only CR 26, and Nex/Geb probably clocked in at around CR 25.
So yeah. Baba Yaga, thanks to her 20 levels, 10 mythic tiers, PC wealth and +5 CR in abilities, would be the most powerful mortal currently known. Or if she isn't, then she's really, really close.
Not saying ur wrong or disbelieving you, but where is it that tar-baphon is on cr 26? Didn't the man challenge the now dead god multiple times and fought at close to a standstill for a bit?
Not saying ur wrong or disbelieving you, but where is it that tar-baphon is on cr 26? Didn't the man challenge the now dead god multiple times and fought at close to a standstill for a bit?Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.So is Baba Yaga the most powerful mortal (or once-mortal) in the PFRPG setting?The closest one to her that I can recall offhand would be Runelord Xanderghul, who was supposedly CR 27-ish according to James Jacobs. Arazni and Tar-Baphon are only CR 26, and Nex/Geb probably clocked in at around CR 25.
So yeah. Baba Yaga, thanks to her 20 levels, 10 mythic tiers, PC wealth and +5 CR in abilities, would be the most powerful mortal currently known. Or if she isn't, then she's really, really close.
His full stat block is in Mythic Realms.
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Not saying ur wrong or disbelieving you, but where is it that tar-baphon is on cr 26? Didn't the man challenge the now dead god multiple times and fought at close to a standstill for a bit?Baba Yaga weighs in at CR 30, which as far as I can tell is the highest CR opponent that has been statted up so far.So is Baba Yaga the most powerful mortal (or once-mortal) in the PFRPG setting?The closest one to her that I can recall offhand would be Runelord Xanderghul, who was supposedly CR 27-ish according to James Jacobs. Arazni and Tar-Baphon are only CR 26, and Nex/Geb probably clocked in at around CR 25.
So yeah. Baba Yaga, thanks to her 20 levels, 10 mythic tiers, PC wealth and +5 CR in abilities, would be the most powerful mortal currently known. Or if she isn't, then she's really, really close.
Yup. Although he did that a long, long time ago. Aroden got even tougher after he beat up Tar-Baphon.
Aroden became a god after he killed T-B, not before.
==Aelryinth
Aroden became at least a demigod the moment he created the Starstone Cathedral.
Aroden departed Golarion to make his divine realm in Axis after slaying the mortal Tar-Baphon and imprisoning an avatar of Deskari.
Tar-Baphon's CR in Mythic Realms may be a little undervalued - 19 for 20th level character, +5 for mythic ranks, and +2 for lich puts him at 26, but then he has artifacts and other goodies. So he's personally CR 26, but I'd expect the ECL for actually fighting him to be much higher.
He's an undead necromancer. His power is his spells and his servants.
Yes, if he gets to fill the room with undead minions, he's going to be absolute hell.
But other then that, he's one spellcaster who can be countered by another spellcaster and probably taken out by a mythic paladin in one round of happy Mythic Vital Strike Smiting. Your main problem is going to be locating his phylactery so he stays gone.
Between him and Baba Yaga, I'd really rather face him, you know?
==Aelryinth
Completely non-canon speculation here:
Arch-Daemons:
I'd agree with placing Charon as having the highest CR of the Four Horsemen. He's the only one of them that's original to the position. Prior to being devoured by Trelmarixian I would have placed Lyutheria as just below Charon as a 29. I'd hesitate to place Trelmarixian there however just by virtue of being the youngest (once he finishes digesting Lyutheria we can talk about putting him on her former level). I'd probably put Apollyon and Szuriel at around the same level, both of them just higher than Trelmarixian. But with Famine's madness leading to unpredictability, his predecessor being quite literally stuck in his head, and his puppeteer-like linkage to at least one of his harbingers (Vorasha) he's possibly more secure in his position than War of Pestilence, but none of them are as cozy as Charon.
The 5th Horseman doesn't rank by virtue of being dead/imprisoned, or doesn't rank by having transcended things in some capacity by being merged with Abaddon itself. It's an odd position to be sure and all depends on how you interpret the 5th's current state in your games. :)
Protean Lords:
I'd be tempted to rank Ssila'meshnik the Colorless Lord at the top of the protean lord CR ranking. I suppose I see him as something of a self-appointed intermediary for the proteans' dualistic racial pantheon (whatever the Speakers of the Depths' actual status as discrete gods might or might not be). I mean he pretty much trashed Axis at one point more or less by himself super early on to prove a point, and he comes and goes as he really cares within Pharasma's domain (though I suspect that's by her allowance or some manner of arrangement they've made, not him flaunting laws and restrictions because rules are made to be broken, but then again...).
Below Ssila'meshnik, there are a number of other protean lords that have been mentioned like Narriseminik and Il'surrish, the Watcher in the Wheel, the Lord of Entropy, the Lord of Madness, Mother of Tongues, and maybe Zolo of Hungry Teeth (the reference doesn't explicitly state he was a protean lord, but I assume he is because it took an artifact to stop him). However there hasn't been enough detail published on them for me to really guess about CRs. Hopefully in the future there will be more details forthcoming. :D
Because that would be really cool.