Charm Person

[lostpike]

What are the best ways at lower levels to hide that you are casting this and to avoid the -5 to your dc?

[Leisner]

Get it as an SLA.

[Kayerloth]

lostpike wrote:

What are the best ways at lower levels to hide that you are casting this and to avoid the -5 to your dc?

Do it while in a noisy and crowded location preferable with Still and Silent feats.

Do it while Invisible, from hiding or otherwise with the benefit of concealment or cover.

It may help to have Bluff and or Sleight of Hand depending on your GM.

Have someone or something create a distraction so as to draw attention away from you.

All these methods have quite a bit of GM judgement built in, really comes down to how your GM will run it and what they will allow.

And last raise your spell DC as much as possible ... no point in disguising the fact you've cast a spell if your target becomes aware they have been the subject of a spell when they make the save (even if they don't know the source).

And what -5 are you talking about? The only -5 I see is for an opposition school. The only way to avoid that is to not make it an opposition school.

[lostpike]

-5 while in combat.

[Calybos1]

Find cover or concealment. Carry a smokestick if necessary.

[Claxon]

Charm Person isn't intended to be used in combat. It is an out of combat spell, intended to be used to convince the guard standing in your way that he's your best friend and should let you into the BBEG room without raising an alarm because BEST BROS.

[SlimGauge]

I don't consider it a combat spell. I use it to get information, usually with the old "good cop, bad cop" routine.

[Majuba]

The -5 for combat isn't automatic. If you "initiate combat" by casting charm person, they are not in combat when you cast the spell. Because if they fail the save, there is no combat.

[Kayerloth]

Okay just to make sure I'm on the same page, are you equating your target getting +5 on the saving throw to you getting a -5 because of these lines in the spell description?

Charm Person text wrote:

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

Or is their something else I'm still missing?

If you are in the middle of combat (or even intending on starting momentarily) ... well that's not the most opportune time to use charm spells in general. Even if you succeed the target may decide the best course of action is knock you out cold (got break up this fight between his new friend and his old friends somehow), hammer your 'beserk' companion senseless (your target is not his friend and ally) or other wise be fairly unfriendly to your other companions who unlike you are not his 'best buds'. Likewise consider your target. How one of several city watchmen might respond in combat is likely a bit different from how your typical orc bandit is liable to respond when his "friends" start fighting.

[melferburque]

if you're a bard, the spellsong feat can do wonders.

[Typelouder]

Kayerloth wrote:

Okay just to make sure I'm on the same page, are you equating your target getting +5 on the saving throw to you getting a -5 because of these lines in the spell description?

Charm Person text wrote:

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently [bold]being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, [/bold] however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

Or is their something else I'm still missing?

If you are in the middle of combat (or even intending on starting momentarily) ... well that's not the most opportune time to use charm spells in general. Even if you succeed the target may decide the best course of action is knock you out cold (got break up this fight between his new friend and his old friends somehow), hammer your 'beserk' companion senseless (your target is not his friend and ally) or other wise be fairly unfriendly to your other companions who unlike you are not his 'best buds'. Likewise consider your target. How one of several city watchmen might respond in combat is likely a bit different from how your typical orc bandit is liable to respond when his "friends" start fighting.

My interpretation of the spell (bolded by me) is that they get the +5 to save when they are currently being threatened ( in an allies threatened square) or being attack (taking damage this round).

I'd make the argument if they haven't been attacked in combat yet and not directly threatened by an Ally they don't get the bonus. But that's me.