During my game last Sunday I brought in my Fighter 6/Horizon walker 10. My GM just looked at me like I was crazy when I explained what exactly I could do with the feat chain and the favored terrain(all). Is the class really that crazy and whats the worst you guys have ever done with Horizon Walker or the Dimensional dervish chain
It's not crazy at all.
Side note, barring some houserule, you won't actually have Dim Dervish until level 13 (or level 11 with Paragon Surge spell). The Dimensional feats are not combat feats, there's no way I know of to take them as class bonus feats to pick them up faster than one every 2 levels (starting at 9 for Horizon Walker).
StreamOfTheSky wrote: It's not crazy at all.
Side note, barring some houserule, you won't actually have Dim Dervish until level 13 (or level 11 with Paragon Surge spell). The Dimensional feats are not combat feats, there's no way I know of to take them as class bonus feats to pick them up faster than one every 2 levels (starting at 9 for Horizon Walker).
Oh sorry I forgot to include the 6 levels of fighter in addition to the 10 of HW
...Why did you take all 10 levels of Horizon Walker? If you're just going for the Dim Dervish thing, you can go back to your main class after 3 levels. If you go all 10, you should be devoted to using Terrain Dominance to get bonuses to combat against as many foes as possible. (The latter one *can* become shenanigans, though it has no real middle ground between "lol overpowered" and completely useless).
StreamOfTheSky wrote: ...Why did you take all 10 levels of Horizon Walker? If you're just going for the Dim Dervish thing, you can go back to your main class after 3 levels. If you go all 10, you should be devoted to using Terrain Dominance to get bonuses to combat against as many foes as possible. (The latter one *can* become shenanigans, though it has no real middle ground between "lol overpowered" and completely useless). +4 to any random enemy +10 against hell +6ish against anything urban, are those really that bad?
BloodyManticore wrote: StreamOfTheSky wrote: ...Why did you take all 10 levels of Horizon Walker? If you're just going for the Dim Dervish thing, you can go back to your main class after 3 levels. If you go all 10, you should be devoted to using Terrain Dominance to get bonuses to combat against as many foes as possible. (The latter one *can* become shenanigans, though it has no real middle ground between "lol overpowered" and completely useless). +4 to any random enemy +10 against hell +6ish against anything urban, are those really that bad? Compared to just about anything else that any base class would give... ummm obviously yes?
StreamOfTheSky wrote: It's not crazy at all.
Side note, barring some houserule, you won't actually have Dim Dervish until level 13 (or level 11 with Paragon Surge spell). The Dimensional feats are not combat feats, there's no way I know of to take them as class bonus feats to pick them up faster than one every 2 levels (starting at 9 for Horizon Walker).
Synthesist gets Dimension Door SLA at 6th. So they can start the hopping train at 11th as well.
Yeah, but they already have access to pounce at lvl1 so it's not worth as much for them. Of course, if you use biped or serpent base form it's still pretty good.
iammercy wrote:
Synthesist gets Dimension Door SLA at 6th. So they can start the hopping train at 11th as well.
Feat retraining rules can push it down to 8th level (need +6 BAB to get Dimensional Dervish), which isn't too out of whack because using the feat retraining rules a character can do 6 levels of any class then 3 levels of horizon walker being able to hop at level 9. Of course, this only applies at tables which allow the use of the retraining rules.
cnetarian wrote: iammercy wrote:
Synthesist gets Dimension Door SLA at 6th. So they can start the hopping train at 11th as well.
Feat retraining rules can push it down to 8th level (need +6 BAB to get Dimensional Dervish), which isn't too out of whack because using the feat retraining rules a character can do 6 levels of any class then 3 levels of horizon walker being able to hop at level 9. Of course, this only applies at tables which allow the use of the retraining rules. Actually the Synth has a BAB of +6 at 7th level since you use the Eidolon stats.
iammercy wrote: cnetarian wrote: iammercy wrote:
Synthesist gets Dimension Door SLA at 6th. So they can start the hopping train at 11th as well.
Feat retraining rules can push it down to 8th level (need +6 BAB to get Dimensional Dervish), which isn't too out of whack because using the feat retraining rules a character can do 6 levels of any class then 3 levels of horizon walker being able to hop at level 9. Of course, this only applies at tables which allow the use of the retraining rules. Actually the Synth has a BAB of +6 at 7th level since you use the Eidolon stats. I guess that would work, the synthesist can take the feat at level 7 and use it when fused but has to wait until level 8 to use it when not fused. Of course the SLA dimension door only works when fused...
LoneKnave wrote: Yeah, but they already have access to pounce at lvl1 so it's not worth as much for them. Of course, if you use biped or serpent base form it's still pretty good. What they don't have access to is.
Port into melee range of something with reach.
Hit it. Port behind. Create Flanking for self. Hit it a bunch more.
Port away.
All without any attacks of opportunity. :)
cnetarian wrote: iammercy wrote: cnetarian wrote: iammercy wrote:
Synthesist gets Dimension Door SLA at 6th. So they can start the hopping train at 11th as well.
Feat retraining rules can push it down to 8th level (need +6 BAB to get Dimensional Dervish), which isn't too out of whack because using the feat retraining rules a character can do 6 levels of any class then 3 levels of horizon walker being able to hop at level 9. Of course, this only applies at tables which allow the use of the retraining rules. Actually the Synth has a BAB of +6 at 7th level since you use the Eidolon stats. I guess that would work, the synthesist can take the feat at level 7 and use it when fused but has to wait until level 8 to use it when not fused. Of course the SLA dimension door only works when fused... Sure. But by lvl 11 (when you get Dervish) you have it a bunch of times from spells as well. Oh also Summoners get Dimension Door on their list at 7th.
iammercy wrote: Sure. But by lvl 11 (when you get Dervish) you have it a bunch of times from spells as well. Oh also Summoners get Dimension Door on their list at 7th. That's what the ellipses were about, how things keep on reducing.
Dimension Dervish can be taken at level 7 (although only used when fused) if the summoner retrains two of their lower level feats to Dimensional Agility and Dimensional Assault which can be done during level 6. At level 11 the eidolon gets to +9 BAB and the synthesist can take the Dimension Savant feat and self-flank when fused and using Dimension Door, opening up the option to self-flank Dimension Door when not fused at level 12 and the not fused synthesist BAB becomes +9.
A full BAB class which dipped 3 levels of Horizon Walker can take Dimensional Savant at level 9 by retraining 4 feats, 2 from level 1,3 or 5 to Dimensional Agility & Dimensional Assault AND then the level 7 feat to Dimensional Dervish AND the level 9 feat (which couldn't have been dimensional savant because the qualifying feats weren't taken until after leveling). A 3/4 BAB class (rogue for instance) which dipped 3 levels of Horizon Walker can take Dimensional Savant at level 11 by retraining 2 feats from levels 1,3,5 & 7 to Dimensional Agility & Dimensional Assault AND retrained the level 9 feat to Dimensional Dervish, provided this retraining is done before reaching level 11 there is no need to retrain a fourth feat. A 1/2 BAB class which dipped 3 levels of Horizon Walker for this could also get Dimensional Dervish at level 9 but would have to wait until level 15 to get Dimensional Savant (without retraining of this feat required if the earlier feat retraining has been done before hitting level 15).
Without feat retraining it's pretty hard to get Dervish before level 11.
A Travel domain cleric coupled with Loremaster can get it at lvl 9, but that requires an unrealistically high Int. There might be ways to qualify even earlier with Loremaster, but I haven't thought of any.
A witch or wizard going into EK can also get it at 9, but that requires a generous reading of Samsaran and (ab)use of the Summoner spell list.
I agree with the rest of you that Horizon Walker or synthesist seem to be the best options, since they qualify reasonably early and have the class chassis to take full advantage of the free full attacks. Theologian travel domain cleric with a melee focus could also work pretty well.
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