|
So this is my first posting of a new/updated class as it were. A friend helped me out with a lot of the mechanics, since I don't have the best head for them. I'd really like some input on what we came up with on the Bladesinger as it was one of my favorite kits back in the 2.0 days.
Also you may notice a lack of a spell list. That's because I couldn't think of a way to do one. I know what I'd like, but being a fanboy I'm not sure my opinion is terribly objective so suggestions on progression and what level the spells should go to would also be welcomed. :) So I present to you our take on the Bladesinger. Also I know we're missing abilities at a couple levels based on Pathfinder progression.
Bladesinger: Hit Die: d10 (I got help developing the mechanics and class abilities for this class from my friend Dave) *this is copied from a campaign blog I'm working on that I want to run someday btw*
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Know: Arcana (Int), Know: Nature (Int), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int),Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str)
Skill Ranks per Level: 2+Int
Base Attack: full
Saves: Good Reflex and Will
Spells: Bladesingers prepare their spells from a spellbook not unlike a Wizard and use their Intelligence to determine their number of spells.
Class Abilities:
At first level the Bladesinger gains the Weapon Finesse feat as a bonus feat, and gets their Charisma mod to AC while wearing light or no armor. (Note: a Bladesinger, and only a Bladesinger, may use the Weapon Finesse Feat with the following one handed martial weapons: long sword, scimitar and cutlass)
At second level the Bladesinger gains the ability to attune herself to a single one handed sword. This process takes one full day and she can only be attuned to one sword at a time. (the attunement process requires special incenses that cost 100g as part of a purification process). Afterward the sword is like a physical extension of the Bladesinger granting a +2 bonus vs. being disarmed. Further once attuned to her blade a Bladesinger may sacrifice one of her elemental spells to deal +1d6 acid/cold/electricity/fire per spell level sacrificed on a successful hit.
At third level the Bladesinger gains the ability to use their Dexterity mod to damage in place of their strength mod with their weapon.
At fourth level the Bladesinger gains the Bladesong feat as a bonus feat.
New Feat: Bladesong
Prerequisite: Elf or Half-Elf, base attack bonus +5 or higher
Benefit: May add a +1 dodge bonus to their AC, or a +1 bonus to attack. (the player must say which benefit they are using at a given time, switching bonuses takes a move action)
Focused Training: Once per day the Bladesinger can imbue their sword with magic as a full round action. The sword gains a +1 enhancement bonus for every 4 Bladesinger levels. The Bladesinger may chose equivalent abilities in place of some/all of the enhancement. This ability stacks with any enhancement on the weapon already (max +5 enhancement). The training required for this means that the bladesinger is not as adept with other melee weapons gaining a -2 penalty per 4 levels on attacks made with all melee weapons other than their chosen sword.
At fifth level: Weapon Casting: the bladesinger may substitute any somatic components for her bladesinger spells with gestures with her sword. Summon blade: as a standard action the bladesinger can summon her sword to her hand from up to 100ft per bladesinger level. This is a teleportation effect. If the sword is in the possession of another creature they are entitled to a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Cha mod) to retain possession. If a creature successfully saves, the bladesinger cannot use this ability for 10 min per unsuccessful summon. The blade singer must attune herself to her sword in a day long ritual before using this ability & can only be attuned to one sword at a time. At 10th level the bladesinger can summon her sword from anywhere on the same plane. At 15th level she can summong it across planes.
At sixth level the bladesinger receives the Improved Bladesong feat as a bonus feat.
New Feat: Improved Bladesong
Prerequisite: Elf or Half-Elf, Bladesong, attack bonus of +7 or higher
Benefit: May add a +2 dodge bonus to their AC, or a +2 Attack bonus. (This replaces the benefit of the Bladesong Feat). (the player must say which benefit they are using at a given time, switching bonuses takes a move action)
At seventh level: Locate Elf: The bladesinger can locate creature at will, but may only target elves.
At ninth level: Elf Communication: The bladesinger may use Sending at will, but may only target Elves.
At eleventh level: Spell Channel: The bladesinger may use her sword as an additional focus for her spells. If she does she may add the enhancement bonus of the weapon to the spell's DC. She may do this a number of times per day equal to 3+Cha mod.
At thirteenth level: Reinforce the Homeland: Once per day, a bladesinger can teleport to anywhere within the Elven Nation as per Greater Teleport.
At fourteenth level: Forceful Strikes: A bladesinger becomes adept at using their force of personalilty to do more damage to their target. They can now add their cha mod to all damage rolls with their bonded sword.
At seventeenth level: Quickened Magic: Once per day, the bladesinger can cast a spell as if modified by the Quicken Spell feat. This does not increase the spell level.
At eighteenth level: Improved Spell Channel: When the bladesinger uses her spell channel ability, if they have personally seen their target harm an elf or the elven homeland, or if they have incontrovertible proof they have done so, they double the bonus they receive from their spell channel.
At nineteenth level: Instant Communication: The bladesinger elf communication now only requires a free action to activate.
Base classes aren't racially specific; the 'elf communication' stuff or the Reinforce the Homeland ability, besides being extremely weak, isn't appropriate for a base class. It also assumes there is an 'elven nation', which is not a universal truism.
There's no reason for Bladesong/Improved Bladesong to be racially restricted; its effect doesn't tie into any mechanics for either elf or half elf.
Honestly, I'd just play a Magus or Arcane Duelist Bard, scratch off 'magus' or 'bard' on my sheet, and write 'Bladesinger' in its place.
I forget, what was the fluff behind the bladesinger kit? What was their job?
I forget, what was the fluff behind the bladesinger kit? What was their job?
They're just Elven gishes. They got their own kit for the job because elf fanboys.
|
|
I forget, what was the fluff behind the bladesinger kit? What was their job?
Basically they were elite fighter/mages of the elves. Only an elf PC could be one back in the day (I expanded it to Half-Elf if only for a little variety and to make things a little more interesting). They were the ones trained the most in the Bladesong ability since it was the basis of their fighting style, very fluid and graceful.
They're morality tended on the player but many adventured trying to find things that would help their people. They were defenders of the elves in a sense.
At least that's what I remember, and how I always played it; and how I was planning on running it in my campaign world.
Shouldn't they get Perform: Dance and Perform: Sing as class skills?
Also, I notice that at higher levels you are giving abilities on the odd levels, which would be when you get your feats as well, and giving nothing at even levels, which would make them "dead" levels.
As for spell casting, you are already giving them so much that I can't see anything better than the Paladin/Ranger half casting for this class. So start getting spells at 4th level, max out at 4th level spells, etc.
A while back I tried to make a "Bladesinger" with just a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight build, and it worked out fairly well, but now that the Magus class is out, that would probably work better.
|
|
Shouldn't they get Perform: Dance and Perform: Sing as class skills?
Also, I notice that at higher levels you are giving abilities on the odd levels, which would be when you get your feats as well, and giving nothing at even levels, which would make them "dead" levels.
As for spell casting, you are already giving them so much that I can't see anything better than the Paladin/Ranger half casting for this class. So start getting spells at 4th level, max out at 4th level spells, etc.
A while back I tried to make a "Bladesinger" with just a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight build, and it worked out fairly well, but now that the Magus class is out, that would probably work better.
DOH! I totally missed the Perform thing. lol Thanks for pointing that out.
Hmmmmm well I don't want to give a class too much, that's kind of why I'm posting here. I want to make it balanced. The half casting is fine, that's how I was leaning in this case. I may have to alter a couple of things but that shouldn't be an issue. Is there anything you'd suggest changing?
In that case, I would (as others have suggested) look at the magus, and possibly make a racial Elf archetype instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
I think I made a bladesinger class also before magus came out...
I can dig it up if you'd like to see it.
Advanced race guide has an elven archetype for the Magus called Spell Dancer. I definitely got a Bladesinger vibe from it.
Use arcane pool for enhanced mobility, get insight bonuses to ac instead of medium/heavy armor etc.
For extra flavour, add the Blade bound archetype and call the blade a "Moonblade" instead of black blade.
(Don't know if this is technically legal since spell dancer alters what you do with your pool and bladebound alters how large your pool is. But since you're already experimenting with a new base class, I'm guessing you can get some leeway).
|
|
This is all 2nd Edition stuff that I am pulling from my memory banks...
Not all practioners of the Bladesong utlized magic. Many elves practiced the fighting style as fighters or rangers, etc. The fighting style wasn't tied to magic in any way though it was described as fluid and graceful and that the weapon literaly "sung" through the air creating a haunting melody during combat. They NEVER taught this style to non-elves.
The true Bladesingers were Fighter Mages who blended spell and sword to devestating effect... etc... etc... They got even more bonuses out of the Bladesong Fighting style and were wizards to boot!
Bottom line they were a 2nd Edition kit that could be applied either to a straight melee character or, more commonly, Fighter Mages who got a slightly modified fighting style and bonuses to casting spells in combat. They could, if I recall, utilize their weapons to perform the somatic component of spells.
There are several ways within Pathfinder rules to emulate the Bladesinger... the Magus works, and there is even an archtype that is geared toward this. There are Bard archtypes that work. There is the Eldrich Knight route.
There are probably ways to make it work with archetypes, I just really wanted to bring them back as their own thing. :) I have a fondness for them for a variety of reasons, and I wanted to make a couple of things that were race specific to kind of give the elder races a bit of stand outishness in the world I was building. It's a personal thing I guess. We all have those old kits we'd love to see make a comeback, as prestige classes or some such :). I do appreciate the advice so far, and I'd like to see where this goes so I know what to do ultimately.
In that case, I would (as others have suggested) look at the magus, and possibly make a racial Elf archetype instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
I think I made a bladesinger class also before magus came out...
I can dig it up if you'd like to see it.
Basically this.
|
|
I played them in 2nd edition, loved the flavor and the fighting styles... but there were never their "own thing". They were a kit for Fighters or Fighter/Mage which is no different than the Archtypes of Prestige Classes of today's Pathfinder.
All I was getting it really was that flavor is mutable. There are a plethora of options within Pathfinder that more than allow the emulation of the Bladesinger.
That being said, by no means do you have to limit yourself to said options. You are absolutely able to invent anything you want. One of the greatest secrets of this hobby of ours is that we do not NEED any of the published rules to play them... just imagination.
A bit of critique regarding your build above...
You have them as very MAD. Str, Fight like a fighter (until 14th level when they can add Cha); Int, Cast like a Wizard and with Wizard 2+int skill points; Cha based skills like a Paladin; Con, everybody needs Con; Dex, you give them weapon finesse for free so Dex will likely be a priority
You could give them something akin to the Dervish Dance feat that allows Dex to damage, though most will tell you this is too powerful. Alternatively you could give them something akin to the Duelist Int to damage bonus as percsion damage.
Most abilities at Odd levels, same as feats leaving multiple dead levels.
Shift abilities to even levels.
Full BAB, Full Casting, d10 HD... yikes. No reason to play a fighter or a wizard ever.
One of the mitigating factors of the Bladesinger was that they were multi classes Fighter/Mage. So they never had full spell progression. If you want to turn the old kit into a base class take this into consideration and stagger their spell casting. Give it to them at 1st, but slow their progression (2nd level spells at 4th or 5th instead of 3rd, 3rd level spells at 6th or 7th instead of 5th, etc)
The "only effects evles" type abilites are intereating and thematic but a little weak. This, coupled with the realative power of the class as a whole, I don't see as a...
I'm not quite sure what MAD means but I'm pretty sure that it's close to being broken or too stat dependent. lol hmmm I was pretty sure I did give them a Dex to damage ability at level 3, though I could swap that around to an even level somewhere. What would you suggest changing to make it work better and not be broken?
MAD means Multiple Ability Dependency. I wonder, could this be made into a magus archetype?
Probably pretty easily. Heck, I don't even think it needs to be an archetype. It's just a fighter/wizard.
Just an fyi, but there is a prc in little red goblin games racial guide 2 that does this stuff.
Does dervish of dawn (bard) not adequately exemplify a blade singer?
|
|
Does dervish of dawn (bard) not adequately exemplify a blade singer?
There are probably lots of things that would have been adequate, but that's not really what I was going for. See the world I'm working on where this class would exist does have an Elven homeland that has experienced something of a renaissance. It's a world of high magic where wizards are highly regarded and sorcerers are looked upon with quiet wonder for the power that flows through their bloodline. (Well at least in one of the nations, I'm still working out the whole place)
The Bladesinger was meant to be special, it's own class that, while it COULD be incorporated into other worlds, was part of the history of my own little campaign world.
I'm really trying to branch out and start thinking things through on this and not have to rely on my friend Dave as much, because he's WAY too busy right now to even think about this stuff. I'm still learning how to put things together so I thought I'd show what we came up with and ask for advice on how to make it work better.
Here is something that I use that may be a simple and thematic fix for you.
Take your standard bard, and swap versatile performance for versatile study. Versatile study allows you to add 1 spell (of a lvl you can cast) from the sorc/ wiz list to your bard spell list.
Then just flavor dervish dance (the feat) as added from the dervish of dawn (at) to allow for rapiers, long swords (aldori long sword is your precedent here), and the elven curve blade (if you dare to risk it).
You end up with a 6 spell lvl caster that has an artsy feel to him, a serious arcane punch over the standard bard and most magus', and a medium BaB that gets a +8 to hit/dmg by the time you are done (along with some other goodies as well). The game already allows for the majority of these mechanics without having to overhaul and draft and balance an entirely new class. How you flavor things is up to you. But this AT practically begs your consideration.
Hope that helps.
MAD means Multiple Ability Dependency. I wonder, could this be made into a magus archetype?
Here is a Bladesinger archetype I did for the Magus a while back, as the Magus is essentially the Bladesinger in a base class, without the fluff.
It's worked out great during play so far, especially considering my GM allowed me to take the Crane Style, gaining it's benefits while wielding a longsword. I am the tank of the group, wearing light armor and fighting defensively most of the time.
I did, however, design the archetype to fit nearly any Bladesinger build or concept (Str build, Dex build, Int build, all offensive, all defensive, and any combo in between) that played closely to the lore found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting; wandering elven knights that blended swordplay and magic, doing good (or evil) for the betterment of elvenkind.
was part of the history of my own little campaign world.
If you're not going to just make it a flavor thing, it should be an archetype or a prestige class. Base classes are not racially restricted. EVER.
There's also the other little thing ... WHY would this be racially restricted? It doesn't seem to interact with elven or half-elven mechanics in any way, and thus has no reason to be so restricted. Anybody could learn or develop this.
I've experimented with custom classes before and the hardest thing is keeping the balance compared to other classes, and not making them op in certain situations and useless otherwise.
My recommendation is to start with an exsisting class (magus seems the most appropriate) and start changing things that don't fit with your idea.
Adding Arcanas with the right flavour would be pretty simple, changing some elements in the arcane pool (and/or other abilities) and creating a race specific Archetype is also a good way of adding flavour.
I'm not familiar with the 2nd ed Bladesinger, but the 3rd ed Bladesinger is more or less a Magus with a race specific archetype.
In fact, several of your suggested abilities are already Magus+archetype abilities i.e teleport blade - bladebound magus lvl 9, enhance blade - Magus lvl 1 vanilla ability (sorry for not using your original names, but I'm on my pad which makes posting/scrolling and such a hassle).
Tl:dr Changing an exsisting class to your liking is alot easier than creating something from scratch and generally results in a more balanced class.
for the prc version of the bladesinger look here
|
|
was part of the history of my own little campaign world.If you're not going to just make it a flavor thing, it should be an archetype or a prestige class. Base classes are not racially restricted. EVER.
There's also the other little thing ... WHY would this be racially restricted? It doesn't seem to interact with elven or half-elven mechanics in any way, and thus has no reason to be so restricted. Anybody could learn or develop this.
They are racially restricted because 1) I want them to be in the context of the campaign world I'm working on and 2) they are effectively the Elf equivalent of Paladins. Rather than be Divine they're Arcane, but the principle is sort of similar. They can go out and adventure but they're known as protectors of the Elven people. It's part of their code and is something that can be used against them, just like a regular Paladin. I hadn't factored that part in yet because I wanted to get the mechanics down first.