My DM wants to test out some gestalt with PF, starting at lv5. Right now, my group consists of a Monk5|Rogue5, Arcane Trickster 1|Fighter 1/Wizard4|Rogue4, and a Cleric5|Fighter5. He's allowing broken PrCs like Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight and Mystic Theurge. Stats are 18, 18, 14, 12, 11, 10.
My DM is allowing me to take the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype as a Half-Orc, so I am absolutely certain that I want to have half of my character as that. I originally considered mixing with Gunslinger because I could dump str, int, and cha, but it would be pretty feat intensive. So I decided...
Mix with fighter. Bad reflex but good HP. Lots of feats. Could fight well in melee (especially later on with retribution hex.) Good AC benefits from Scarskin, plus misfortune hex and compel hostility for tanking. Snatch up a great sword and just smash things!
Thinking Str(18), Dex(14), Con(23), Int(11), Wis(12), Cha(10). Will drop enough feats for Accursed Hex, Ability Focus(Misfortune), Power Attack and Furious Focus.
But I'm thinking...are there any prestige classes that normally suck that might be pretty cool combined with a Scarred Witch Doctor? Or is Straight SWD/Fighter the best way to go? Any great Fighter archetypes I could mix with this?
Should also add that perhaps I should consider some form of mounted combat so that I can move (cackle) and get an attack?
Perhaps not a great mix after all since Ill pretty much never get full attack if I'm stuck cackling!
I think straight fighter/witch works great. You may want to switch around or even out your stats in str and con if your investing feats into melee.
If you work with high Con already you could go for Rage Prophet.
Rage would prevent you from casting at first but later you can use a few spells in rage.
Also the barbarian archetype Scarred Rager would fit thematically with Scarred Witch.
You can use hexes while raging so barbarian would be cool.
I would go scarred rager. That way you can use one round ragecycling in case you want to cast spells now and then.
raging increases your con and by that your hex DCs.
All in all you got a ton of HP, two good saves, full BAB, can smash squishy opponents and hex the tough ones to make them easy targets.
Cavalier, perhaps with huntmaster archetype, could be an idea, too.
If you are allowed to use psionic classes you could use the aegis class with the aberrant archetype turning yourself into a tentacle horror with natural armor, DR and other goodies that provide protection without interfearing with your arcane spellcasting.
I'm liking the scarred rager. Early rage cycling sounds fun. I like the idea of hexing more than smashing. I'll be a little wanting for feats, but I think it'll work out :)
Urban barbarian might be a stronger option for a scarred witch doctor... You can put the rage bonus into Con and still be able to cast spells (with a monster DC), you would miss out on the strength bonus though. Ranger is also probably a better option than fighter- you get less feats, but you get a lot more skill points (and more/better class skills), some extra spells, and all 3 good saves.
That said, if your GM is willing to let you take those kind of PrCs there are some truly outrageous builds you can put together... The simplest would be to start sorc/oracle for 4 levels and then take 10 levels of paladin/mystic theurge. If you line up the levels just right you can also build a paladin/sorc//dragon disciple/eldritch knight that will end up with +20 BAB and CL20. You can also do a pretty devestating zen archer/arcane archer by mixing in empyreal sorc levels, fighter levels, and EK levels (the exact build varies based on much casting you want).
edit:
2- pally 2/sorc 2
3- pally 3/sorc 3
4- pally 4/sorc 4
5- pally 5/sorc 5
6- pally 6/sorc 6
7- EK 1/sorc 7
8- EK 2/DD 1
9- pally 7/DD 2
10- pally 8/DD 3
11- pally 9/DD 4
12- EK 3/DD 5
13- pally 10/DD 6
14- pally 11/DD 7
15- pally 12/DD 8
16- EK 4/DD 9
17- pally 13/DD 10
18- pally 14/sorc 8
19- pally 15/sorc 9
20- pally 16/sorc 10
you get +1 BAB every level from the 'left' class, and each time the DD misses a caster level you get it from EK instead. You end up with all the casting and bloodline powers of 20th level sorc, plus all the extra bonuses from DD 10, full BAB, 10d10+10d12 hp, all the powers (and casting) of a 16th level paladin, and you count as a 4th level fighter for qualifying for feats. the only downside is that you'd have to follow the paladin's code (of course- you could use this exact build but replace paladin with fighter or ranger or urban barb; there's less stat synergy that way, but you could easily make 'other flavor' dragonknights that way, including using chaotic/chromatic dragons)
1- fighter 1/empyreal sorc 1
2- EK 1/sorc 2
3- EK 2/zen archer 1
4- EK 3/ZA 2
5- EK 4/ZA 3
6- EK 5/ZA 4
7- Arcane Archer 1/EK 6
8- AA 2/ZA 5
9- AA 3/ZA 6
10- AA 4/ZA 7
11- AA 5/EK 7
12- AA 6/ZA 8
13- AA 7/ZA 9
14- AA 8/ZA 10
15- AA 9/EK 8
16- AA 10/ZA 11
17- EK 9/ZA 12
18- EK 10/ZA 13
at 18th you have +18 BAB, CL 18, 18d10 hp, and all the crazy archery abilities of an AA 10 and ZA 13. the last 2 levels are when you (finally) need to sacrifice something (maybe): if you take 2 more levels of fighter/sorc, you end up with 20 BAB&CL but miss out on the last bonus attack from flurry; if you take 2 levels of fighter/ZA, you get BAB 20 and max flurry but miss 2 CL (do still have 9th level spells though); if you take 2 levels of ZA/sorc, you max flurry and get 20 CL but technically should lose a point of BAB... 19th would be your 1st level of using a 3/4 BAB class, so you should gain no BAB there- but it is late in the game and ZA does gain 1 BAB at both 14&15th level so your GM might let it slide (you should ask before deciding though).
I don't think you can cast as Urban Ranger. Controlled Rage only talks about using mental based skills. Nothing about spellcasting changes.
Unless you consider spellcasting a skill of course.
hmmm... that's an interesting point. in my home group we'd been using it that way, but now i'm not so sure.I don't think you can cast as Urban Ranger. Controlled Rage only talks about using mental based skills. Nothing about spellcasting changes.
Unless you consider spellcasting a skill of course.
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.so, rage never actually calls out spellcasting as forbidden- we're all collectively assuming (rightly, i think) that casting counts as an "ability that requires patience or concentration" since casting requires concentration checks if disturbed at all.
When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.
so, this ability does not restore your ability to do things requiring concentration (which seems to be the only reason you can't cast)...
i hereby withdraw my suggestion of Urban Barbarian. (check out those spoilers though, they're sick)
apparently i missed my chance to do one last edit on my first post :(
i kind of casually tossed out mixing sorc/oracle with pally/MT... here's a little more fleshed out accounting of that injustice ;)
1- sorc 1/oracle 1
2- sorc 2/oracle 2
3- sorc 3/oracle 3
4- sorc 4/oracle 4
5- pally 1/Mystic Theurge 1
6- pally 2/MT 2
7- pally 3/Hell Knight Signifier ("enforcer" on pfsrd) 1
8- pally 4/HKS 2
9- pally 5/HKS 3
10- pally 6/HKS 4
11- pally 7/HKS 5
12- pally 8/HKS 6
13- pally 9/HKS 7
14- pally 10/HKS 8
15- pally 11/HKS 9
16- pally 12/HKS 10
17- pally 13/MT 3
18- pally 14/MT 4
19- pally 15/MT 5
20- pally 16/MT 6
there's 2 things you need to be aware of with this build:
1. you have no wiggle room in your alignment at all- pally requires utter goodness and hell knight requires utter lawfulness. (there will be times when its difficult to figure out what to do)
2. its made of velveeta (solid cheese)- the signifier gains +1 level to any casting class you already have, so you apply it to Mystic Theurge.
if you can look your GM in the eyes and tell him you think its a reasonable build (and he buys it) it really is pretty potent... you have 2 full caster progressions maxed out (and based on the same stat), a +19 BAB, 16d10+4d8 hp, abilities to use arcane spells in armor, 16th level pally abilities, if you take the warrior priest feat you also get a 10th level clerics alignment channel (on top of paladin channels)... demons would be truly (and rightly) screwed against you- you can stack Smite Evil (+Cha to hit, +16 dmg, etc) with Smite Chaos (+Cha to hit again, another +20 dmg). lol
i'm an idiot... signifier doesn't get smite (that's the other Hell Knight), everything else is still good though
Sorry for the late replies folks, been buried in college work. @Nate Lange: I love the ideas sir, but he definitely won't let us take two PrCs at once. The spoilers are fantastic btw.
This won't be a long running campaign. It's sort of our 'halloween haunted house' special. I think he's pretty much guaranteed first character death, so I'll have some fun making this scarred witch doctor, and then I'm going to build something just absurdly broken to WoW him. Maybe a gunslinger/paladin. Oh the smiting bullets.
2. its made of velveeta (solid cheese)- the signifier gains +1 level to any casting class you already have, so you apply it to Mystic Theurge.
Is this really possible with RAW? MT doesn't have it's own 'progression' table. I used something very similar to this in 3.5 with a bard gish dropping Virtuoso +1 casting level to the Sublime Chords very awesome casting progression.
RAW there's nothing preventing it... it is a cheesy move though
(however, that one never doubles up on PrCs so, I guess, is a legal build for you).
if its for a one shot (or basically one shot) that definitely changes things though (you're trying to be at your most effective at 5th and not concerned with what happens after that).
Str 14; Dex 18; Con 20 (including race); Int 12; Wis 12 (including 4th level); Cha 10
feats: 1-toughness; 3-raging vitality; 5-ability focus [slumber]
skills: whatever
discovery: spontaneous healing; rage power: lesser beast totem
hexes: slumber, flight
items: +2 Con belt (counted for HP, but not under Con above) [4k], ring of prot. +1 [2.5k], amulet of nat AC +1 [2k], cloak of resistance +1 [1k]; 1,000g in wand/scrolls/potions
spells: mage armor, figure the rest out yourself
favored class: witch (+1 hp)
hp, assuming avg rounded up: 76 (+15 when raging/+10 with Con mutagen; 101 total with both)
AC with Mage Armor: 20 (18 while raging; 22 with mutagen; 20 total with both)
Slumber DC: 20 base; 22 with Con mutagen; 23 with rage; 25 with both
while raging you can just put everything to sleep, or attack with 2 claws (primary attacks) that deal 1d6+4+1d6 sneak attack (if applicable). you have a pretty solid AC, and an unreasonable number of hp; also, you can fly around through most of the combats (to even further increase your survivability)- plus, the first time you drop below 0hp you automatically gain 5hp back for free.
you also have spells available to you, lol. you can focus on spells that you'll use out of combat or you can use the 'poor mans' rage-cycle (scarred rager only get 1rnd fatigue/rage round, so if you rage and hex or attack then drop rage in 1 round, your fatigue will only last until your next turn) which lets you cast any round you chose instead of staying in rage.
make an angelkin or musetouched aasimar
1 -sorc [pick any bloodline] 1/oracle [wood] 1 (take Bend the Grain revelation)
2+ -pally/Mystic Theurge (racial SLA covers 2nd level arcane; Bend the Grain covers 2nd level divine)
max out Cha. take Fey Foundling @1st level.
there's really no bad way to go from there... you can heal yourself as a swift action for 2d6+4 hp, 7-8 times per day. you can focus on full casting (passing on armor) and just enjoy crazy survivability from paladin, or you can focus on the divine (wearing armor) and take most of your arcane spells as out of combat utility (when armor can be removed or ASF isnt life or death).
hmmm... i tried to add an amendment to my last post, but apparently my edit time ran out after i started typing but before i hit post :(
if you want a simpler/more straight forward pally, paladin/inquisitor should be a cool and interesting build. you'd have a couple pally spells and a handful from inq (all of which are uninhibited by armor), full BAB, good skills, and tons of special abilities. if you make it to the BBEG you should pretty much be able to solo it: good AC (from armor) and saves (from Cha); have 1-2 buffs up from spells; use smite, judgement, divine bond, and bane; heal self as swift action throughout fight... should be pretty sick :)
Something that no one seems to have mentioned... if you're looking at mixing with Barbarian (A great and fun choice), then pick up a Scythe (or other x4 weapon) and the Sleep Hex, and have fun CDG'ing everything.
@NateLange - I poured over RAW and noticed you're quite right. There is absolutely nothing stopping me from taking a PrC to increase the +1 casting of the +1 casting/+1 casting of a Theurge. If the SWD dies off, I'll definitely be breaking this, but I'll have to find a way to do it without taking two PrCs at once.
@EsperMagic and Daelen: Yes, yes and yes. Yes too. This is all going to happen now I think :D
One other question, Nate Lange. Why am I taking Fey Foundling? I must be missing something that's probably very obvious :D
Fey Foundling gives you +2 per die on all magical healing- at 5th level, that's +4 every time you LoH your self (times 7-8 uses per day), and +2-6 every time you get a cure spell. that'll add up to a ton of extra healing very quickly.
pallys are awesome (partially) because you can heal yourself as a swift action for 2d6 hp with LoH, which means you're effectively taking an average of only 8 damage per round- even with less Con and no toughness, you should be able to last 5 rounds...
with fey foundling that drops to only taking effectively 4 damage per round, which means you should run out of LoH before they can drop you (and if you and your allies can't drop it in 7-8 rounds, plus another 2 or so after LoH runs out, you're probably doing something very wrong)
edit: the MT/signifier build i posted never takes 2 PrCs at the same time! also, i didn't do it (because its unnecessary) but you could use the early entry trick from the 5th level MT build i posted to make a character that took 1 level of sorc/oracle, then 5 of pally/MT, 10 of pally/signifier, and 4 more pally/MT...
Hey Nate Lange, just thought I'd add this.
Mystic Th is not a 'spell casting' class and therefore is not subject to the spellcasting progression of other prestige classes :( Bummer.