how many AoO's in the surprise round with combat reflexes?

[stuart haffenden]

Can you use your regular AoO with combat reflexes? Is it all of them? Just the extras from the feat?
And why are you considered flat footed still if you're able to react to others actions?

[Renen]

You get 1+your dex.
You are able to use them WHILE flatfooted. You arent magically non flatfooted. Least acording to the wording

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Combat Reflexes changes your 1 AoO to that 1AoO + your Dex mod.

If I had a dex mod of 4, I would have 5 total AoO per round.

When you're flat-footed, meaning caught off guard or you haven't acted yet in a round to become ready and on your toes,

--- "A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC and Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat or Uncanny Dodge class ability." ---

you cannot make attacks of opportunity as you are not yet ready to act normally.

[Renen]

But doesnt the feat allow you to make AoO regardless of being flatfooted?

[Doomed Hero]

Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:

you cannot make attacks of opportunity as you are not yet ready to act normally.

...unless you have Combat Reflexes. Then you can.

[Kayerloth]

Renen wrote:

But doesnt the feat allow you to make AoO regardless of being flatfooted?

Yes that's my understanding and the feat description clearly says so. I don't believe Raijin was contradicting you merely restating and elaborating on the subject.

Combat Reflexes from the PRD:

Combat Reflexes (Combat)

You can make additional attacks of opportunity.

Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to your Dexterity bonus. With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can't make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round.

[Xaratherus]

The Combat Reflexes feat states that you may make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. That means that even during a surprise round - even if you didn't get an action during the surprise round because you failed the Perception check - you would threaten and could make one AoO, plus one additional for each point of DEX mod.

Making an AoO does not remove the flat-footed condition because taking an action (even 'not an action' or 'no action' like an AoO) doesn't remove it.

Combat - Flat-Footed wrote:

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

There's some disagreement on whether or not "first regular turn" would include the surprise round; my opinion, being able to take a normal (standard or move) action in the surprise round would remove the condition.

[Brf]

I believe the OP is asking if you have Combat Reflexes and are Flat-footed -- can you take ALL of your AoOs, or just the bonus ones granted by CR?

So Kazumetsa Raijin, who has a Dex bonus of +4 and Combat Reflexes, is attacked by a dozen Tiny creatures while flat-footed. Does Kazumetsa get 4 AoOs, or 5?

[Xaratherus]

Brf wrote:

I believe the OP is asking if you have Combat Reflexes and are Flat-footed -- can you take ALL of your AoOs, or just the bonus ones granted by CR?

So Kazumetsa Raijin, who has a Dex bonus of +4 and Combat Reflexes, is attacked by a dozen Tiny creatures while flat-footed. Does Kazumetsa get 4 AoOs, or 5?

5. The feat increases the total number of AoOs you can make, and allows you to make those AoOs even if you're flat-footed.

[Diego Rossi]

Xaratherus wrote:

The Combat Reflexes feat states that you may make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed. That means that even during a surprise round - even if you didn't get an action during the surprise round because you failed the Perception check - you would threaten and could make one AoO, plus one additional for each point of DEX mod.

Making an AoO does not remove the flat-footed condition because taking an action (even 'not an action' or 'no action' like an AoO) doesn't remove it.

Combat - Flat-Footed wrote:

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

There's some disagreement on whether or not "first regular turn" would include the surprise round; my opinion, being able to take a normal (standard or move) action in the surprise round would remove the condition.

Really someone think that you are flat footed until you take your first full round, and not until you act during the surprise round?

PRD wrote:

Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Under conditions it don't use the term "regular turn".

[Xaratherus]

@Diego Rossi: Technically, under conditions all it says is "has not yet acted", which isn't a defined term; some people might take "has not yet acted" to even include an AoO, meaning that triggering an AoO would cause someone to become not flat-footed (which I don't believe was the intent).

But yes - there was a forum topic not that long ago where people were discussing what your "first regular turn" meant, and one opinion was that it did not include the surprise round because that's not a "regular turn".

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Kayerloth wrote:

Renen wrote:

But doesnt the feat allow you to make AoO regardless of being flatfooted?

Yes that's my understanding and the feat description clearly says so. I don't believe Raijin was contradicting you merely restating and elaborating on the subject.

** spoiler omitted **

Correct. I just write/convey funny sometimes :P