I'm a wizard and I have the choice between a knowledge skill or linguistics.
I already have knowledge arcane and our ranger has knowledge nature. I'm looking at knowledge dungeoneering or maybe knowledge religion.
I was looking at Linguistics though and 5 extra languages could be awesome. Our DM uses different languages fairly frequently so the languages could get use. He also said I could pick up sign language if I wanted, which would be fun for him and his soon to be cohort. However, I'm not sure if Linguistics is better than knowledge skills what with the tongues spell in existence and myself being a wizard. Though, I doubt I'd alway have that spell handy.
Any opinions between the two skills and which you would prefer and why?
Kn. Religion is pretty useful.
I personally love Linguistics.
I have a Barbarian who knows like 16 languages, it's cool.
Don't forget Linguistics isn't just for languages; it also absorbed 3.5 Decipher Script and Forgery. That's 3 skills for the price of one.
Knowledge Religion is certainly very useful.
The usefulness of Linguistics will depend entirely upon your GM and your campaign. The more your GM throws archaic scripts and NPCs/Monsters speaking under their breaths in different languages, the more useful it will be. If; on the other hand, your GM tends to use nothing but common and the occasional elven or draconic, then Linguistics is much less useful.
As a personal matter, I love linguistics, especially in a group with a bunch of different races. My current pathfinder group does a fair amount of roleplay, and it can be fun to tell one character something in a language only they can understand so as to keep others out of the loop (when the need arises). It can also be good for discussing plans in a roleplay encounter without the NPCs being able to understand, etc. In the end though it really depends on the GM and campaign how much fun you'll have with it.
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Its a moderately moot question if you're level 2 or 3.
Put 1 rank into every int based skill, Max out spellcraft and knowledge arcana. Many wizards can do that at level 2 but almost all wizards can do it by level 3.
As others have said, the value of linguistics is very campaign dependent. But it can be fun, especially if combined with some method where you get 2 languages for every skill rank. I have a pfs aasimar who already knows something like 18 languages at level 5 :-)
I played a Conjuration Wizard, and I maxed Linguistics for the first 10 levels. Basically I could order about every single fire, water, earth and air elemental as well as every angel, demon, devil etc... I summoned. Immensely useful, don't play summoners without it.
Also was immensely useful in decoding the schemes, battle plans and messages of goblins, ogres and giants when we found them or when they screamed or spoke about them within hearing distance.
The biggest advantage? Secret in-party language! I made sure that all my party members put 1 rank in Linguistics so we could all speak Celestial. We used that to discuss NPCs and sapient enemies in their presence.
[Edit]: I tend to avoid spells like Tongues because space in my prepared spell list is very, very precious to me and with my wizard's INT I've got skill points to spare
Won't share story about Swedish Chef Giants and their Pig Latin Orc flunkies.
I think linguistics value depends on your game. I know knowing Aklo has done me well in society a few times, and other times not knowing a language has broken a chunk of a campaign. Personally I don't like to use a variety of languages in my game, so its useless outside of 1 or 2 small chances it'll show, but I've had games where its essential.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I was put in the position to only choose one, because my DM, gracious and awesome as he is, allowed me to switch out a trait I hadn't used the whole game thus far for a totally different campaign trait (finding haleen and we're playing kingmaker). Thus, I get another skill retroactively and of course can only max one. However, I may be willing to do just a couple linguistics and the rest in a knowledge skill, if that isn't a horrible idea.
Another couple of languages known isn't bad.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I was put in the position to only choose one, because my DM, gracious and awesome as he is, allowed me to switch out a trait I hadn't used the whole game thus far for a totally different campaign trait (finding haleen and we're playing kingmaker). Thus, I get another skill retroactively and of course can only max one. However, I may be willing to do just a couple linguistics and the rest in a knowledge skill, if that isn't a horrible idea.
Your a wizard, you have plenty of spare skill points and your intelligence and class bonus will give you a pretty good size bonus to either one just for putting the point in. I think you'll be just fine.
Personally I like linguistics, especially for a spell caster.
There are a lot of good spells that are language dependent and as others have said it is very useful for commanding summoned creatures.
Beyond that it is a skill that can substitute for spells, in that if you can read something from your skill you don't have to spend a spell that day on comprehend languages, tongues or a similar spell. That's a soft resource for a hard resource in my book and as such one I'm willing to invest in.
what with the tongues spell in existence and myself being a wizard. Though, I doubt I'd alway have that spell handy.
Scrolls, my friend, scrolls. Always have utility spells like that handy by scribing them onto scrolls. :)
I'd look at it more from the character perspective ... is your character actually interested in what KN: Religion or Dungeoneering covers? Is he interested in learning new languages? For my money, for a typical wizard, Linguistics makes more sense than Religion; if you're looking through dusty old tomes, you'll want to be able to read what they say.
At least one AP recently published likes to throw languages that the PCs in general won't know or shouldn't have meta knowledge to know. Its nice when you level to take those languages because otherwise you are stuck with spells, or worse, gestures.
At least one AP recently published likes to throw languages that the PCs in general won't know or shouldn't have meta knowledge to know. Its nice when you level to take those languages because otherwise you are stuck with spells, or worse, gestures.
I once had a GM who's plot hinged on us being able to understand a group of people. No one knew their language, he was shocked nothing went right and there were several almost-genocides as a result. Another one had everything down to a lamp speak common, and another one tried to use languages but never actually planned on what they said when I did understand them*... Like I said, varies from GM to GM.
*"He says something in Halfling." "What? As it turns out I know Halfling" "Umm... Err... Its just nonsense!"
Dood! Linguistics is awesome!
As if knowing a bunch of different languages wasn't cool enough, you can forge documents and recognize forgeries as well.
You know what is even better? Those forged documents can give you a +10 bonus to Bluff!
Every one and their mother has ranks in Sense Motive. Linguistics is resisted by another Linguistics check. It's a much rarer skill. And it's a "trained only". So it's much more likely to succeed.
Linguistics is amazing!
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For an enchanter it is as necessary as a high save DC.
Well there is a feat called Ancient Draconic now so you can bypass the language barrier with a single feat.
For an enchanter it is as necessary as a high save DC.Well there is a feat called Ancient Draconic now so you can bypass the language barrier with a single feat.
Holy halogen headlights!
I might need that sucker for my Enchantment-focused sorceress.
If you want a secret group language id suggest Halfling, because honestly who other than halflings ever take it.
Decoding secret messages in letters, analyzing forged documents, deciphering old writings in ruins, ... and extra languages on top of that: hell yes!
In the Kingmaker campaign you will eventually rule or help rule a kingdom and the linguistics will be very valueable. Also the produced campaigns usually do more with skill checks in general and will provide forged documents, unknown languages (linguistics will allow a general understanding if you make the check) and more languages then you can ever prepare for. I'd say as a king you either need the skill yourself or someone you trust to provide the skill for you.
(mental note to myself: take linguistics next level for my paladin in the kingmaker campaign and do not forget it AGAIN this level)
Hey Lemmy quick question. How does one get +10 to bluff using forgery through linguistics? Is that just something a DM awards, or is there a ruling for it?
The usefulness of Linguistics depend on the DM and the campaign setting.
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For an enchanter it is as necessary as a high save DC.Well there is a feat called Ancient Draconic now so you can bypass the language barrier with a single feat.
Ooh, I'm bookmarking that one.
And yeah, Wizards should put at least 1 point in every knowledge skill so you can at least make the checks trained. A 4+Int bonus (before any general skill bonuses) can go a long way too even if the DC is high, you may roll well.