Played a couple sessions with Conquest of the Bloodsworn Vale this weekend, and during an encounter that converted to PF a little harder than I expected, one of my player's 2h fighter died. His fighter was leaning toward evil, but I talked him down to being chaotic-neutral to flow better with the story.
Now that the fighter is lost, that player is set on bringing out his antipaladin idea to turn the trade route into something he can wickedly rule. He's mentioned about making this character in the past, so I'd much rather play along than force him into another character.
Does anyone have some guidance or campaign experience similar to help me with this? The rest of the party leans toward good, as does the fort. I'm worried about the party ending up on against the keep.
I'd be OK with this as long as we can finish the adventure ,(and this does have some things that could lead into a good campaign after), but I don't want the adventure to implode because of one player.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not all characters are suitable for all parties, games, or adventures. This definitely seems like a case where the Anti-Paladin simply does not fit. Most likely, rather than 'party against the keep', it will be 'most of the party and keep against the Anti-Paladin'.
I'm not normally in favor of PvP, but this is one of those cases where I'd be tempted to sit back and let it play out. The player HAS to know that his character isn't going to fit in with the rest of the party, and that they will take offense to his 'wicked rule' plans.
I suggest explaining this to him, and suggesting a not-evil character. If he refuses, let the chips fall where they may.
|
If the party leans towards good and there is a fort of at least Lawful if not good guys there... that character simply isn't going to work well in this adventure.
An anti-paladin, as mentioned, is an exemplar of Chaos and Evil, as much as a Paladin is of Law and Good. You could perhaps rework the class a little to make a Lawful Evil version with changing around a few of the abilities and powers with more of an anti Chaos bent than anti Good, that might work and LE ties in much better with controlling a trade route than Chaos does I feel, but as written and if the party favours good there's no real way imo.
I would agree with Zhayne but add that this should be talked about with the whole group. You might get support from the other players that will back him off a bit, or you might realize that everyone wants to play the game that he wants to play.
1. The rest of the party needs to know that it is PCvPC open season. (I like PCvPC better than PvP, because one hopes that the conflict is between the characters, not the players)
2. The AntiPaladin player needs to be mature enough to understand that when the good-ish characters end up attacking his character, the other players aren't picking on him. They're actually playing the game that he wanted to play. I expect this is not the case, based on my experience of Who Wants to Be an Antipaladin? but my experience is limited.
3. If the AntiPaladin player tries to force the whole table, including other PCs, NPCs, the adventure itself and the GM to bend over backwards to accommodate his character concept in a friendly, supportive way, suggest he play a character concept less likely to murder friendly, supportive people who accommodate on a whim.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DM should not handle a character, it's the player who should. If he doesn't want to, then you got a bigger problem than just an unruly character
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just have him act like Belkar and you should be okay-ish.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The word "No" comes to mind. You already told him once.
remind the player that even though he's CE, he shouldnt be burning orphanages or kicking puppies for teh lulz.
he can be a calm, controlled antipaladin with no issues--since being stupid and getting yourself put down like a rabid dog wont advance your goals at all. keep the party safe (since more minions means less of a chance of people noticing that you're evil as all get-out, and having meatshields is helpful in large combats), only respect those who've earned it, and keep your goals foremost in your mind as you work towards them and stop at NOTHING to see them fulfilled.
think the punisher on his more omnicidal runs.
he should avoid charity or acts of caring or humility unless it's part of his cover and he's got an atonement spell waiting in the wings to help get back on track.
he can be a calm, controlled antipaladin with no issues--since being stupid and getting yourself put down like a rabid dog wont advance your goals at all. keep the party safe (since more minions means less of a chance of people noticing that you're evil as all get-out, and having meatshields is helpful in large combats), only respect those who've earned it, and keep your goals foremost in your mind as you work towards them and stop at NOTHING to see them fulfilled.
think the punisher on his more omnicidal runs.
he should avoid charity or acts of caring or humility unless it's part of his cover and he's got an atonement spell waiting in the wings to help get back on track.
This.
I think if you would give him a motivation to work with the party, it would work out well. He just eeds a good reason to stay with the characters.
Maybe he was the right hand/partner of the BBEG, who now decided to get rid of him since he didn't want to share his profity with the Antipaladin. Now he wants revenge on his former boss and aligns with the party, who tries to twart his plans.
|
Also, let me unveil this helpful flow chart:
Ciretose's guide to making a good character.
1. Think of a new concept.
2. Ask yourself if this concept will make the game more fun for everyone you are playing with or if it will cause people at the table to have less fun.
If more fun, go to 3.
If less fun, go to 1.
3. Ask your GM and fellow players if this concept will make the game more fun for everyone you are playing with or if it will cause people at the table to have less fun.
If they say more fun, go to 4
If they say less fun, go to 1.
4. Enjoy playing your new character!
In a sentence: If a paladin cannot commit a chaotic or evil act, an anti-paladin cannot commit a lawful or good act.
Work that into your game if you can.
The thing about slippery slopes is that it is hard to climb back up. A few chaotic or evil acts can redefine your alignment, but being lawful or good comes a long path of continuous behavior.
But at the same time, you are right, he can't go around saving drowning puppies. Unless he is doing it in order to fool the populace into thinking he isn't...well... an antipaladin. Good with an evil intention is not really good, is it?
For how to work this fact and the character concept into the game: see if he can use ways to hide his alignment and having him pretend to be... anything more acceptable so that he can weasel his way into a favorable position. Maybe tell him to pretend to be a cleric/inquisitor of a neutral god to explain away his powers. A few hidden animal sacrifices here or there to atone for not being a heavy metal album cover 24/7 and this could work.
Yes, eventually, there will be some big confrontation when he is revealed for what he is, but that can be saved for late campaign.
The thing about slippery slopes is that it is hard to climb back up. A few chaotic or evil acts can redefine your alignment, but being lawful or good comes a long path of continuous behavior.In a sentence: If a paladin cannot commit a chaotic or evil act, an anti-paladin cannot commit a lawful or good act.
Work that into your game if you can.
No, it works the same both ways. It takes a change to consistent behavior to change your alignment one way or the other. There is no slope, particularly on the Lawful-Chaotic axis, because neither is better than the other.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for the advice everyone, and I'll say a lot of my feelings were mimicked in the feedback. I talked to my player and we settled on taking the template from his dead warrior and rolling up a Hellknight from Korvosa. His reasoning for being in the Vale fits since the Order of the Nail is close by, and he can still fall into the evil niche if he chooses.
Yay for order out of chaos (pun intended!).