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Would it be wiser to stick to a Domain for the druid, or an Animal Companion?
I can easily see being a Wolf shaman with Liberation Domain being super useful for both me and the party(I don't really mind the -2/+2 to wild shaping), but at the same time the idea of being a Lion Shaman, summoning many other lions, and all of us pouncing sounds really incredible. If not Wolf shaman, then just a Druid with the Plant domain.
Is it worth it to go for the Animal Companion as a maximum level 10 Druid? I'm worried at how frail they might be...
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How much are you multiclassing? Your animal companion only improves when you take a level in Druid, unless you take Boon Companion in which case you can take up to four levels of something else before it stops growing. Animal companions are great if they're at full strength and you spend some of your money and spells buffing them, but otherwise they tend to be relegated to out-of-combat utility unless you want to have a funeral for mr. sniffles once a week.
I would probably also refrain from a shaman archetype. The summoning thing is awesome, and it's nice when you can suddenly be a huge animal at 6th level, but overall you really constrain your versatility for only a few levels of being better than a regular druid.
Keep in mind that the "let's all pounce at the same time" maneuver actually works better when you're summoning as a full round action... otherwise you spend your standard action summoning and the lions either pounce without you or sit around twiddling their paws for a turn.
If its only one level and your starting late you could nab boon companion and animal domain of some sort. That said, it depends on where you start and your build, etc. Also depends on how much you and your party love animal companions, I know quiet a few GMs who try to make them as useless as possible.
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Atarlost, I'm not sure I understand.
I can acquire both of those forms, Huge, at either Druid 10 or 8. I have Shaping Focus of course. It seems to me being something with Pounce would be the smartest way to go, since I would be constantly closing the gap between opponents and I, along with following it up using a Flurry. I don't intend to use Natural attacks at all. I plan on sticking to IUS, Colossal Fist damage after combining Size, Monk IUS damage/level(Monk's Robe + Monastic Legacy), and Strong Jaw. I'll have a Guided AoMF, so attacks will function off of Wisdom which at some point will be at a +9 or +10 modifier.
Reynard_the_fox, I plan on multiclassing 10/10 of each. I'll look up Boon Companion. I also intend to take Natural Spell, Shaping Focus, and Quicken Spell as a druid at some point.
I really don't mind the +2/-2 when it comes down to it. We're going to 20 in this campaign, and this character is an overall late bloomer anyways. I can wait it out :)
I've no idea how summoning as a full round differs from anything... or even what i can summon and how often... that part is super new to me. :(
I'll keep this in mind though. I like the idea, but I just don't know if it would pay off. Would you mind explaining that part to me? D:
MrSin, I am pretty sure the DM is in favor of companions...
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Ah, see, sadly Boon Companion can only give you 4 levels at most. As soon as you hit Monk 5 and up, your animal companion will start lagging inexorably behind. This is why, if this campaign reaches the high levels, I would advocate for a domain instead, unless you can finagle an animal companion as a Monk class feature.
Also, as you'll only ever reach 5th level spells, I don't think Quicken Spell is something you want. Get a Rod of Quicken, Lesser instead - you'll have the same amount of money as a full caster at that level, and it's even more useful for you. Ah, and make sure you get a Polymorphic Pouch to put it in.
Ah, you've come to the right guy for an explanation on summoning. ; ) Summoning is extremely powerful, and as a druid you are adept at summoning "friends" to help you out. Druids have access to the Summon Nature's Ally line of spells, and in fact can cast it spontaneously. That means that every single spell you prepare can instead be a summon nature's ally spell if you want it to be.
Now, summoning is amazing: it provides one or more bodies that get in the way of enemies and keep wearing them down until actions are wasted killing them. But, there's a catch: Summon Nature's Ally has a casting time of 1 round. That means that if I want to summon something, I have to start casting this round, keep casting for an entire round of combat, and then finish casting on my turn. The newly summoned creatures can then act immediately, and I can take my turn as normal. If anyone hits me while I'm summoning, I have to roll a pretty difficult concentration check, or I lose the spell entirely. The time delay and risk of drawing enemy attacks usually limit summoning to the start of combat or to those who stay out of melee.
However, the animal shamans have a shortcut: as long as they are summoning an animal of their flavor, they can summon as a standard action. This is much more powerful - for example, if you got low on HP in melee, you could literally 5-foot step away from an enemy, use your move action to pull out a potion, and your standard to drop 2 or 3 lions on his head. Not only that, but the lions would all get bonus hit points equal to your level, like a supercharged Toughness feat.
Of course, some flavors of Shaman don't have that many allies on the list. The poor Grizzly Shaman only gets the Grizzly at SNAIV and the Dire Bear at SNAIV. In order to help them use this ability more often, they can apply a few templates to mess with the level of SNA required - specifically, the Young (-1), Advanced (+1), and Giant(+1) templates. So in addition to everything off of the SNA list, a Bear Shaman could summon at each level:
3. Young Grizzly
4. Grizzly
5. Advanced Grizzly, Giant Grizzly, or Young Dire.
6. Dire Bear, Advanced Giant Grizzly
7. Advanced Dire Bear, Giant Dire Bear
8. Advanced Giant Dire Bear
Not only that, but he can also summon multiple lower level bears, as by Summon Nature's Ally. For example, he could use a 5th level spell slot to summon 1d3 Grizzly Bears or 1d4+1 Young Grizzly Bears. That means that only at levels 1 and 2 is he at a loss for standard-action summons.
So there you have it - why almost every spellcaster will tell you summoning is good, and why the shaman druids are some of the best summoners in the game. It's also why a lot of druids favor the Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning feats.
PS: Oh, and there's another catch. You may be able to turn any spell into a SNA, but low-level summons later on are usually only good as trapfinders, roadblocks, or utility. Typically only your top and second-to-top summons are going to help that much, especially against foes with area attacks and DR. (Though, any attack your enemy aims at your summons is not aimed at you, and that's a win.) Being part monk, your summons won't be keeping up with the enemies you face.
Seems to me you are betting on several horses with both wildshapeing and a guided amulet. Do i get it rigth that what you get from wildshape will be pounce and the extar size? And with strong jaw you plan to land 12d8 +Wisdom and magic Per hit?
It can work i am sure. Please let me know how it turns out.
And get a domain pehaps Wolf domain if you have a Wolf thing going.
Reynard_the_fox, I plan on multiclassing 10/10 of each. I'll look up Boon Companion. I also intend to take Natural Spell, Shaping Focus, and Quicken Spell as a druid at some point.
Personally, I would advise you to focus on one or the other, as I think both classes give you better benefits when you focus. 4 levels of monk can be covered perfectly by boon companion, give you a ki pool, and you have still mind which gives you access to the monastic legacy feat, which counts half your non-monk levels for improving unarmed strike (should you decide to go that way).
Yeah, I don't think Monk 10/Druid 10 is going to make you happy.
You could see if your DM will allow 3.5 PrC like Fist of the Forest (not for PFS).
A small dip in monk (1-4 levels) could be doable. What do you want your character to accomplish by multiclassing?
Seems to me you are betting on several horses with both wildshapeing and a guided amulet.
Agreed. Whilst it introduces a slight bit of MAD, I'd have to say - going with Stre or Dex (with an Agile AMOF) and utilizing the increases you get in those would be a lot stronger since you can swing your Wisdom modifier up to +9 or 10 but these will be exceeded by a Str or Dex focused set up after wildshaping
Now yes, wisdom would help the spell list (and AC), but given the fact you'd not be casting beyond 5th level Druid spells in this build, that much wisdom isn't grossly needed. At the higher levels, no matter Wisdom, that simply won't deliver compared to someone who is playing a dedicated caster and tossing out 7-9th level spells.As for the AC - between the Wild Enchantment, Monk's AC and Natural Armour bonuses, even a Strength based build becomes a brick wall...an Earth Elemental brick wall.
I now feel slightly ashamed.
Do i get it rigth that what you get from wildshape will be pounce and the extar size? And with strong jaw you plan to land 12d8 +Wisdom and magic Per hit?
That is exactly what is gained in this build - and it's beautiful. Though reiterating above points against Wisdom.
Especially since as a monk/druid you want to aim for air or earth elemental forms to maximize strength or dexterity, not animal forms that will combo poorly with monk unarmed strike benefits.
To expand on this (at least, assuming I've got it right) - the problem is that when table fiat kicks in, it's not too hard to imagine a table complaining that Beast Shape doesn't have any form involving suitable limbs (well, ok, Ape - but that doesn't have pounce) for unarmed strike. That said, you may have a table that comes to the more fun interpretation. :P
I can acquire both of those forms [Earth or Air Elemental], Huge, at either Druid 10 or 8.
Actually, to obtain those huge, requires an effective Wildshaping of 12. Edit - just thought you probably meant Druid 10 + Shaping Focus. Clearly need less coffee. That said, until you made a point of your pounce combo - I would've recommended the Elemental Body forms and said to go for a normal Druid and hang the summons. Now, well - if you can get away with Pounce + FoB, go for a Shaman. Though I'd have thought Lion the best option since I can't recall forms other than cats that get Pounce, that also appear as a Druid Shaman archetype. As for the above recommendations - in leiu of using Beast Shape - go with a Strength based build.
And lastly, a tiny bit of squeezing everything you can out of the build - because 10th level Druid gives you no extra levels of spells to cast, if you're using a Shaman archetype (and presumably not elemental body forms), you could go Druid9/Monk11 so that with a Monk's Robe you get 1 extra bit of AC. But that's ]b]really[/b] milking it.
Oh! The actual question - go for a domain that doesn't grant an animal companion - it'll just fall behind as has been given.
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One interesting thing to note if you combine Animal Shaman and Shaping Focus the penalty to wild shape from animal shaman can be partially overcome by shaping focus if you are multiclassed.
Benefit: If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.
So lets say you are a Animal Shaman 8, Monk 2. Animal Shaman says your wild shape for all other forms are at Druid level -2. So Druid 6 then you add in Shaping focus and it increases your druid level as 4 higher up to a maximum of your character level or 10. So you wild shape as a druid 12 for you animal forms.
So you wild shape as a druid 12 for you animal forms.
Well, this would depend on how Shaping Focus and Totemic Wildshaping stack.
You are 10th level, Druid 8, so your totem wildshape is already as a Druid 10. Shaping Focus would not increase this any further.
If you applied Shaping Focus first, then Druid 8 becomes 10 (max of character level), then +2 for your totem.
So it depends on the "order of operation" so to say.
Since totem wildshape is all one ability, I would say you have to apply the feat first or after all modifiers, not "in the middle."
So either 8 + 4 (max 10) is 10, so totem is 12 and non-totem is 8; or
8 - 2 is 6, 8 + 2 is 10, +4 to each (max 10) is 10 totem and 10 non-totem.
You couldn't apply before for totem, and after for non-totem, it has to be consistent.