Hi, everyone.
I'm planning to play a Treesinger Druid soon, and I've never really played a druid before, but I love the flavor of the archetype. The biggest problem I'm having is selecting the companion. It seems that everywhere I look players select the Sapling Treant as their companion, but I'm pretty interested in the Crawling Vine as well.
Can anyone share insight into the best options for the Treesinger's plant companion?
Carnivorous Flower
Starting Statistics
Size Small; Speed 30 ft., climb 10 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement
Size Medium; Attack bite (2d6);
Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2;
Special Attacks rage (1/day, as the barbarian class feature for 6 rounds).
Crawling Vine
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack slam (1d4);
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2;
Special Attacks grab; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement
Size Large; AC +1 natural armor; Attack slam (1d6);
Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks constrict 1d6.
Puffball (Floating Fungus)
Starting Statistics
Size Small; Speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (average); AC +1 natural armor; Attack thorn (1d4 plus poison);
Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6;
Special Attacks poison (Frequency 1 round [6], Effect 1 Con damage, Cure 1 save, Con-based DC);
Special Qualities low-light vision.
4th-Level Advancement
Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.
Sapling Treant
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7;
Special Qualities double damage against objects, low-light vision.
4th-Level Advancement
Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 slams (1d8);
Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.
I kind of like the raging flower. With imp natural attack and then strong jaw...
I kind of like the raging flower. With imp natural attack and then strong jaw...
I like it too, but is it better than the Sapling Treant at 4th level? Having two 1d8+6 attacks (or better with Improved Natural Attack) sounds pretty strong to me.
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With the Carnivorous Flower you can get Improved Natural Attack, cast Strong Jaw... Can they get Vital Strike? If so that's pretty nasty. The Crawling Vine could be a fun controller type, with grappling and all, at least until the DM gives everything Freedom of Movement.
With the Carnivorous Flower you can get Improved Natural Attack, cast Strong Jaw... Can they get Vital Strike? If so that's pretty nasty. The Crawling Vine could be a fun controller type, with grappling and all, at least until the DM gives everything Freedom of Movement.
Ugh, I hate that. Seems like every time I run divination, suddenly every single bad guy has a ring of mind shielding. And if someone runs a grappler druid, everyone suddenly has a ring of freedom of movement.
Based on these comments, I'm beginning to lean toward Carnivorous Flower or Crawling Vine. I didn't realize how low the Sapling Treant's AC was until last night (which seems odd), and I'd hate to have to constantly replace my plant companion.
I am playing a Treesinger right now. I chose the flower because of his AC being so much better than the treant. Our party was pretty Melee heavy so I didn't really need him to deal damage, his primary role in the party is tank and flank. He can cover me while I cast spells, and provide flanks for the rogue and fighter. If you wanna go this route, I suggest not giving him the 4th level advancement. Instead try to max out his DEX, give him dodge and bracers of armor. My flower has the highest AC in our party.
I agree with the idea that the Treesinger has a lot of flavor. And I think his plant companion is a great source of that. In my party, the flower can change seamlessly between a super cute little friend, to one of the creepiest things ever. Frolicking through the tall grass one moment, to evicerating a rat he found the next. You can have similar situations with traditional animal companions, but those can get clichè.
You could cast barkskin on the Treant. Or some other AC/DR spell to help out
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If you wanna go this route, I suggest not giving him the 4th level advancement. Instead try to max out his DEX, give him dodge and bracers of armor. My flower has the highest AC in our party.
So, did you take this instead? Do you have to give up rage and the size change as well?
Each plant companion gains an additional bonus, usually at 4th or 7th level, as listed with each plant choice. Instead of taking the listed benefit at 4th level, you can instead choose to increase the companion's Strength and Constitution by 2.
I agree with the idea that the Treesinger has a lot of flavor. And I think his plant companion is a great source of that. In my party, the flower can change seamlessly between a super cute little friend, to one of the creepiest things ever. Frolicking through the tall grass one moment, to evicerating a rat he found the next. You can have similar situations with traditional animal companions, but those can get clichè.
This sounds awesome. I really love the idea of the plant companion being wrapped around my character's body (if a crawling vine) or clinging to my back (if a carnivorous flower). Suddenly, you have eyes on the back of your head, not to mention scent.
I don't really get the Puffball's appeal, but maybe someone can enlighten me.
Bump.
I've settled for a crawling vine companion, because we needed the additional grappling. I guess I can always change it later.
It's primary appeal is that it is a plant you can later wild shape into that can fly.
I don't really get the Puffball's appeal, but maybe someone can enlighten me.
I thought you couldn't Wild Shape into the companion versions of creatures. If that's not true, then awesome!
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too bad the rage flower cant actually benefit from its rage
under plant traits
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class.
all raging does is let it take -2 AC...
its a trap
My flower did not increase in size or gain rage. Both of those things increased his damage, at the cost of AC, and i am trying to maximize his AC. The party does more damage if he can stand in a flank for the TWF rogue longer and take hits for her. Mine also has Dodge, Mobility, and the Flank trick,
Also I think the flavor would have been hurt by an increased size. A small flower is just so much cuter than a medium flower, and the cuter the flower is, the greater the contrast when he does something creepy.
Specific rules trump general rules. The specific rule is that the flower can rage like a barbarian. It's ridiculous to think a creature can't benefit from its own abilities. A flower companion can rage. He couldn't benefit from the Rage spell, but he can benefit from his own abilities.
too bad the rage flower cant actually benefit from its rage
under plant traits
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class.
all raging does is let it take -2 AC...
its a trap
I've thought that before too, but Jay is correct on this matter:
Specific rules trump general rules. The specific rule is that the flower can rage like a barbarian. It's ridiculous to think a creature can't benefit from its own abilities. A flower companion can rage. He couldn't benefit from the Rage spell, but he can benefit from his own abilities.
Plants also can't technically benefit from your shared polymorph spells, because they're immune to polymorph effects. However, due to the wording under the animal companion specific rules, they're can benefit from the effects, even if it would not normally affect their "type" (in this case, it's type would be "plant" instead of "animal").
Treesinger allowed me to check two boxes for myself, 1) making a druid 2) making a sunder character. I choose the Treant sapling, so at first level I took improved natural armor at 2nd my plant companion takes power attack and the 3rd feat at 5th is improved sunder which is taken after 4th when I increase it's int to 3. Though I could change the first feat to toughness to give it more tankiness since going from ac 11 to 12 isnt much of an improvement. Im just wondering what magic slots it has so I can kit him up with bracers of armor, a belt of con/str, ring of protection, etc. However, I could give the treant light armor proficiency and then that significantly improves its AC.
So what do you think, toughness, INA, or Lt Amr Prof?
If I didnt pick the treant not sure what other one I would pick, I like them all! Very good elf archetype.
Plant companions can't take armor proficiency it says so in the description.
:( so improved natural armor or toughness?
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Why on earth does the one that seems to have the thickest skin have the lowest natural armor? I can understand the tree being less dexterous than the vines or the floating puffball, so 10 dex seems fine, but tied for the lowest Natural Armor bonus with the ball of fluff?