RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I have an itch.
My very first RPG campaign oh so many years ago (short-lived though it was) was a 4E game in which I played a tiefling Swordmage. Loved playing him. I even bought my very first mini (tiefling with a one-handed sword and a green cape; I'd link it if I knew where to find a pic).
Now I'm itching to make a PFS character out of him, and give My First Mini some use again.
Thus, I'm looking at a tiefling magus.
Except I hate how overdone the typical tiefling magus is. I'm not interested in "tiefling dervish-dancing scimitar magus #3489653".
So... How do I make a tiefling magus who wields a one-handed sword without making the above?
Bonus points if the weapon used is a longsword. :D
Taken a look at the Hexcrafter at all, Jiggy?
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Taken a look at the Hexcrafter at all, Jiggy?
Yes, and I'll be considering it, though it seems kinda parallel to my main build dilemma. I mean, I could take it (or leave it) regardless of whether I'm a dervish dancer, a STR-based longsword magus, or whatever. Or am I missing something?
Could try using the newish rulings for EK and go fighter1/wizard1/EK 10 - perfect use for the longsword too.
I don't know how invested you are into the magus idea though. If you wanted to be more 'sword' then 'mage' you could do something like combine the kensai / blackblade archetypes. Step up the longsword to either a bastard sword, katana, or falcata.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Thinking about it more, he wouldn't even HAVE to be a magus. The real non-negotiables are these:
1) Must be a tiefling
2) Must be melee-oriented
3) Must use a one-handed (or light) weapon
4) Must be an arcane caster (preferably INT-based)
I suppose this could include magus, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster...
EDIT: Ninja'd.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Could try using the newish rulings for EK and go fighter1/wizard1/EK 10 - perfect use for the longsword too.
That's another option. The race-agnostic early entry to EK involves being a diviner, which sort of fits with the intended personality of being focused, analytical, and discerning.
On the other hand, I already have an 11th-level human EK who happens to be a diviner... So I'm worried it might not feel unique enough. :/
From my limited experience in PFS EK's are fairly uncommon, maybe less so now with the rulings though.
Though my personal opinion is don't worry about what is unique or not and go with what is fun to play. Don't want to dervish dance that's fine. Since you already have an EK the question you should ask is would you find another one fun to play.
Two other options too add I can think of but they aren't INT arcane casters - bard (arcane duelist archetype immediately comes to mind) - or something a bit different paladin/sorcerer/DD using longsword + natural attacks.
Might try the Spellblade archtype. I've never seen one played. Then pick arcana that are not normally taken. Sure it would be sub-optimal (but it shouldn't be awful). You are good enough to survive a sub-optimal build.
Dude. Seriously. You already have a Tiefling battle cleric (and an Eldritch Knight, and an Arcane Duelist...).
But I've been toying with the idea of a Kensai Magus. So maybe something like this...
Tiefling Magus (Kensai)
7/19/14/18/8/6
1: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Wakizashi)
3: Piranha Strike
5: Combat Reflexes, Arcane Strike
7: Weapon Specialization (Wakizashi)
This would be built with GM credit until I can get my +1 Agile Viridium Wakizashi (probably level 6). So at that point, I can count on attacking at +10 for 1d6+12/15-20 (including the +1 Keen from using the arcane pool). Plus a ridiculously high touch AC, arcane casting, etc.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
And I'm guessing alchemist isn't really what you want.
Correct.
And you don't seem to want an eldritch knight or a magus.
Huh? In the OP, I'm specifically asking for magus advice. The only thing I said I didn't want was to be a dervish-dancer. How did you get that I "don't seem to want an eldritch knight or a magus"?
So now let's discus something. Why do you feel arcane casting is a must as opposed to divine casting / tricks?
Flavor, based on the original PC described in the OP.
How good do you need to be with a sword?
Good enough to have melee combat be my M.O. without sucking.
What breed of tiefling are you?
The original character was made without any specific heritages (don't know if they even existed in 4E), so any of them are available as needed.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Dude. Seriously. You already have a Tiefling battle cleric (and an Eldritch Knight, and an Arcane Duelist...).
But I've been toying with the idea of a Kensai Magus. So maybe something like this...
Tiefling Magus (Kensai)
7/19/14/18/8/61: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Wakizashi)
3: Piranha Strike
5: Combat Reflexes, Arcane Strike
7: Weapon Specialization (Wakizashi)This would be built with GM credit until I can get my +1 Agile Viridium Wakizashi (probably level 6). So at that point, I can count on attacking at +10 for 1d6+12/15-20 (including the +1 Keen from using the arcane pool). Plus a ridiculously high touch AC, arcane casting, etc.
I was curious about the kensai, though I'm concerned about my AC. Would I use bracers? Cast mage armor a lot (or use a wand)? The reduced spellcasting is also a bit scary.
I dunno... I have mixed feelings about the kensai. Tempting, but I'm also wary.
And what about an arcane trickster? Or am I kidding myself with that?
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Strategy:
- swift action tail, move action potions, excellent action economy
- carry a potion of Enlarge Person in your tail
- grow large and smack someone hard (2d6+8 @ 1st level) without casting a spell, all in 1 round
Like many before you, you seem to have forgotten a very important restriction on Accelerated Drinker. ;)
|
Maybe you could be a strength-based Bladebound Kensai Spellblade Magus, who two-weapon fights with longsword/summoned force dagger. You'd need 15 dex for TWF, but that is doable.
Since spellblades lose spellstrike, you'd by default play differently then everyone who delivers shocking grasps every turn from their scimitars. Your focus would probably be much more heavily on your weapons than your spells during fights. You could focus on prebuffs, positioning spells like Bladed Dash, and have controller spells for when they are needed.
I was curious about the kensai, though I'm concerned about my AC. Would I use bracers? Cast mage armor a lot (or use a wand)? The reduced spellcasting is also a bit scary.Dude. Seriously. You already have a Tiefling battle cleric (and an Eldritch Knight, and an Arcane Duelist...).
But I've been toying with the idea of a Kensai Magus. So maybe something like this...
Tiefling Magus (Kensai)
7/19/14/18/8/61: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Wakizashi)
3: Piranha Strike
5: Combat Reflexes, Arcane Strike
7: Weapon Specialization (Wakizashi)This would be built with GM credit until I can get my +1 Agile Viridium Wakizashi (probably level 6). So at that point, I can count on attacking at +10 for 1d6+12/15-20 (including the +1 Keen from using the arcane pool). Plus a ridiculously high touch AC, arcane casting, etc.
Wand(s) of Mage Armor probably. Decent investment of PP points.
Your build is fine, although I find it slightly interesting that agile enchant is ok but dervish dance isn't as the end result is fairly similar. Especially since a wakizashi is essentially a light scimitar (in pathfinder anyway).
|
So was the flavor specifically "I cast arcane spells" or was the flavor "I can do X, Y, and Z"? And if the latter, what are X, Y, and Z?It was "I'm an arcane swordsman".
Well, drats.
Having tired of my magus' fragility I was looking at an outcast Snowcaster / Kellid half-elven Barbarian-1 /Wizard (Evocation {Admixture})-X. Now I am going feel like I am copying Jiggy!
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Your build is fine, although I find it slightly interesting that agile enchant is ok but dervish dance isn't as the end result is fairly similar. Especially since a wakizashi is essentially a light scimitar (in pathfinder anyway).
Er, that was RainyDayNinja's build, not mine.
My very first RPG campaign oh so many years ago... was a 4E game
hahaha, oh you young kids...
to be more helpful- no, there is not a +str/int tiefling (or aasimar); you can do +str/cha though... i don't do any society play, so i'm not entirely certain how to help there (cause i'm not entirely up to date on what's even legal). it sounds like a magus is the most obvious way to get what you want... a hexcrafter will help with resource management (since you can use hexes repeatedly, giving you stuff to do without burning up spells), pair it with bladebound and you'll always have a decent longsword (and i like the dark slightly sinister feel of those two archetypes brought together). focus on str then int, take just enough dex/con to not be frightened for your life- either completely dump Cha (7 will come buck up to 9 anyway...) or put 1 point in it so you'll qualify for an eldritch heritage feat (if you want to take it). pick up power attack and remember that you can 2hand your longsword all the time, unless you happen to be using spell combat that round.
Sorry about that Jiggy :)
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Like many before you, you seem to have forgotten a very important restriction on Accelerated Drinker. ;)Please expound.
Tell me why it won't work?
Free Action - swap potion from tail to hand at the end of a turn. You can do this after using Spell Combat and/or Spellstrike to attack, or any time you have notice of incoming combat. Holding the potion in the tail just means you don't have to use up a swift action to draw it (magus use lots of swift actions, especially with Arcane Strike).
And then in 1 round (with potion in hand):
Swift Action - charge up your sword to +1 (if you haven't already)
Move Action - Quaff Enlarge Person potion
Standard Action - Two hand grab that longsword and play whack-a-moleWhat am I missing?
Oh! I thought you were having me tailing out the potion as a swift action, then drinking as a move action that same turn.
In that case, you're mixing up how Prehensile Tail works. It's not until you have both that AND the Grasping Tail feat that you gain the ability to carry a retrieved item with your tail, to be transferred to your hand later. Even then, the action to move the item from your tail to your hand is undefined, so assuming it's a free action (like you're claiming) is risky business.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now I'm thinking, mechanically, of a soundstriker bard.
This brings me to thinking, thematically, of a tiefling who strides through the battlefield, longsword in hand, exploding people with infernal killing words.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
In that case, you're mixing up how Prehensile Tail works. It's not until you have both that AND the Grasping Tail feat that you gain the ability to carry a retrieved item with your tail, to be transferred to your hand later. Even then, the action to move the item from your tail to your hand is undefined, so assuming it's a free action (like you're claiming) is risky business.See the bolded text in Prehensile Tail.
**************************
Alternate Racial Trait: Prehensile Tail
Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.
**************************
Prehensile Tail + Grasping Tail just lets you grab things off the ground within 5 ft as a swift action. It doesn't take both to carry items in your tail.
I'll see your quote, and raise you another. ;)
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).
(Bolding mine.)
So if the racial trait already lets you carry the items, then why is that being spelled out as something that the trait/feat combo enables? Seeing as the line from the racial trait is the introductory sentence, it's probably just fluff. Not that all introductory sentences are automatically "just fluff", but ones which conflict with less-commonly-fluffy text (such as the second half of the "special" section of a feat) probably are.And aside from all that, there's still the risk of assuming that the transition from tail to hand is a free action (which you didn't respond to).
--------------------------------------
But anyway! Back to arcane tiefling swordsmen! :D
Any thoughts on an Arcane Trickster version?
Not quite what you're looking for but I have a Tiefling touch-attack sorcerer here.
Awesome artwork from Liz Courts too.
He was originally going to be a hex magus making touch attacks with his beard (hair), but had to change after the ruling that the Magus stuff had to be with weapon in hand.
In that case, you're mixing up how Prehensile Tail works. It's not until you have both that AND the Grasping Tail feat that you gain the ability to carry a retrieved item with your tail, to be transferred to your hand later. Even then, the action to move the item from your tail to your hand is undefined, so assuming it's a free action (like you're claiming) is risky business.See the bolded text in Prehensile Tail.
**************************
Alternate Racial Trait: Prehensile Tail
Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.
**************************
Prehensile Tail + Grasping Tail just lets you grab things off the ground within 5 ft as a swift action. It doesn't take both to carry items in your tail.
I'll see your quote, and raise you another. ;)
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).(Bolding mine.)
So if the racial trait already lets you carry the items, then why is that being spelled out as something that the trait/feat combo enables? Seeing as the line from the racial trait is the introductory sentence, it's probably just fluff. Not that all introductory sentences are automatically "just fluff", but ones which conflict with less-commonly-fluffy text (such as the second half of the "special" section of a feat) probably are.And aside from all that, there's still the risk of assuming that the transition from tail to hand is a free action (which you didn't respond
...
You ALL seem to be forgetting that it's a moot point in this case, since Enlarge Person doesn't work on Tieflings.
You could do an arcane trickster. I think that you'd find yourself using the sword less and less as you get up in levels though, but as long as you are ok with that.
Ninja 3/Wizard 1/AT 8
I see nothing wrong with it.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Hrm, what if I did an EK along these lines?
.
.
.
.
Tiefling (Oni-spawn)
STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 09 (07+2)
CHA 05 (07-2)
Take Armor of the Pit at 1st level and get a mithral chain shirt for armor. That's 18 AC out of the gate.
Second level is Wizard1, with the appropriate Divination focus. I prep mostly true strike or other non-somatic spells.
At 3rd, I take EK1. Thanks to Magical Knack keeping my CL up, I can now take Arcane Armor Training for my bonus feat. Normal feat could be, I dunno, whatever. I can now prep whichever spells I desire.
Compared to a fighter, I'm only down 1 BAB, but I also have my nifty alter self racial SLA for +2 STR. So I'm basically a fighter who has spellcasting instead of bonus feats. Seems cool.
----------------------------------
For arcane trickster, I could use a base tiefling for a Finesse build:
STR 10
DEX 18 (16+2)
CON 12
INT 18 (16+2)
WIS 10
CHA 06 (08-2)
Starting at 2nd level with GM credit, I could start with Rogue2 (or Ninja2) and use the talent for Finesse, freeing up my 1st-level feat for Armor of the Pit to make the front lines a bit safer for me (AC20 with nothing but a chain shirt).
At 3rd, I take Wizard1. I either spend my feat on AAT and stick with a mithral chain shirt, or I start using mage armor. Probably the former, because I'm a shameless AC whore - a simple wand of shield makes me a legitimate tank (AC24 at 3rd level).
Low-ish damage until I get an agile weapon and scale up my sneak attack a bit, but on the other hand I have high enough INT to not have to stick with buffs and other no-save spells to be effective. I.e., if I can flank for sneak attack, great! If not, I can start slinging spells around.
That actually sounds like tons of fun. I might just have a winner...
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
Some thoughts. They might be a mute point at this point.
If you want to make those shocking grasps hit harder, consider dipping a level of crossblooded draconic/orcish sorcerer. Add that +2 per die to damage.
If you want to get some more STR, consider taking levels of dragon disciple. In 4 levels you get +4 to STR, and if you combine it with the crossblooded sorcerer, you'll start really packing a punch.
Getting proficiency with a high crit, non scimitar weapon is ideal if you want to distance yourself from every other magus ever in the history of Golarion. Consider a katana. If you don't want to employ spellcombat, consider a nodachi. If the eastern theme isn't your bag, check out the falchion.
A CB Sorc 1/Kensai Magus 4/Dragon Disciple 4/EK X wouldn't have much trouble at all ripping through combats. At level 9 you could feasibly have a 26 or 28 strength. That makes up for your wounded BAB. With electric immune foes you're a unique fighter. With spells you're melting faces with that keen spellstoring whatever.
Quick math... I can see you hitting for 1d8+18 base with 7d6+14 electric on a regular hit. Increase those numbers on a crit, releasing your stored spell, spending arcane points to increase your multiplier... you get something like 3d8+21d6+96? Screw scimitars.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Some thoughts. They might be a mute point at this point.
If you want to make those shocking grasps hit harder, consider dipping a level of crossblooded draconic/orcish sorcerer. Add that +2 per die to damage.
I hate that dip. Mainly because I hate that the orc bloodline exists. :/
If you want to get some more STR, consider taking levels of dragon disciple. In 4 levels you get +4 to STR, and if you combine it with the crossblooded sorcerer, you'll start really packing a punch.
Oh, now that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Clever!
Getting proficiency with a high crit, non scimitar weapon is ideal if you want to distance yourself from every other magus ever in the history of Golarion. Consider a katana. If you don't want to employ spellcombat, consider a nodachi. If the eastern theme isn't your bag, check out the falchion.
Gotta be one-handed for the mini. ;)
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
So it seems to me that you need to be able to cast at least 2 3rd lvl arcane spells to qualify for EK or am I putting to much into that little s. not asking to ruining any ones build, but if you only need one spell it opens up for all kinds of really early prestiges class builds, and I just might be tempted my self to try one out in the future so nice to know.
Yes, there were some recent FAQs (representing an interesting shift in design intent between the original 3.X authors and the current Pathfinder Design Team) such that SLAs count for "able to cast X" prereqs. One of the FAQs even goes so far as to say "yes, we know this allows early entry into certain PrC's". As for the plurality issue, the Design Team commented (and I can dig up the link if you like) that if they meant "two or more", they'd have used language to that effect, so you just need one qualifying SLA.