Can an Alchemist learn any spell when they study the wizard's spell book


Rules Questions


My group (specifically the alchemist, the gm, and myself) had an argument on this recently and I thought I would get other people's opinions on the matter


An Alchemist can learn a Formula from a Wizard's spellbook , if the spell
is an equivalent to a formula on the Alchemist chart only. Not just any
spell of the Wizard's list.


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An alchemist can learn any spell from a wizards spellbook, as long as that spell(formula) appears on the alchemist's spell(formula) list.


Ok my alchemist did not listen basically the main issue is can the alchemist learn diamond spray and he will not listen unless an admin gets on here and gives his two-cents


pfsrd: Diamond Spray wrote:

School evocation [earth]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3

It's not a spell that an alchemist can cast. If he wants I suppose he can memorize the formula, but he still can't cast it.

The Exchange

Kildrone wrote:
Ok my alchemist did not listen basically the main issue is can the alchemist learn diamond spray and he will not listen unless an admin gets on here and gives his two-cents

He also can not insist that he learns ranger, druid, or paladin spells etc.

If a player is making an ultimatum that he will not listen until a developer gives him an answer he might find himself not playing for a while, especially when he is arguing with you a clearly defined rule.

I would politely tell him he is wrong, and that it won't work that way at your table... if he chooses not to accept that then you need to either change the mechanics of spell acquisition and rewrite the alchemist spell list, or tell him plainly he is out of luck and he should move along.

maybe this will help you explain it to him.

An alchemist can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs, pages, and time requirements. An alchemist can study a wizard's spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains.

There is no formula equivalent to diamond spray, unless he finds something on the alchemist spell list that you deem similar enough to let him have it, the argument closed.


Quote:
An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains.

So he can learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell a spellbook contains.

What is a formula?

It is on the alchemist formula list.

If it isn't on that list it isn't a formula.

Ergo it cannot be learned from a spellbook, as only forumla that are equivalent to a spell in a particular spellbook can be learned from that spellbook.

TL:DR

Developer not required, guy needs to read the rules before trying to play the game.


His case is that this line allows him to learn any wizard spell of 6th level or lower An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them. (This is just addon)

The Exchange

Kildrone wrote:
His case is that this line allows him to learn any wizard spell of 6th level or lower An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them. (This is just addon)

You are just repeating what we already mentioned... challenge him to find a formula that matches the spell in the spellbook... he can't because it doesn't exist. He is arguing semantics for his own benefit, but in this case his argument is not supported by RAW, RAI, or basic english comprehension.

The rule he is referencing allows him to learn spells that cross over between both the wizard and alchemist spell lists, crossover is common for all casting classes. It does not allow him to ignore his own spell list restrictions.


Ok thanks for the time

The Exchange

Don't let him get too down on himself though, remind him that he has one of the craziest resource conservation abilities in the game with this:

Quote:


Alchemical Allocation

School transmutation; Level alchemist 2

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components S

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 round

This extract causes a pale aura to emanate from your mouth. If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract, you can spit it back into its container as a free action. You gain all the benefits of the potion or elixir, but it is not consumed. You can only gain the benefits of one potion or elixir in this way per use of this extract.

My alchemist has potions of heroism, true strike, fly, detect invis, etc and only ever had to buy them once. If you are generous in your campaign and give him other higher caster level potions it is even cooler... I have a CL 15 stonekin potion for example that came as loot, it is hard to beat unlimited uses of that baby.


All I can say is.... Eewww Yuck!

The Exchange

yeah, the running joke is to never loot my corpse for potions... some of those have been used many many times :)


Alchemists have a lot of really cool and also really gross powers.

Grand Lodge

Haseotoramaki99 wrote:
My group (specifically the alchemist, the gm, and myself) had an argument on this recently and I thought I would get other people's opinions on the matter

Something players and GMs both need to take to heart.

Your GM is the arbiter of your game. What he or she says is the final word, the message boards, and in fact not even the rulebooks themselves, are not the court of appeal. If the GM says that nothing from the wizard's spellbook can be used by your alchemist, the GM is right. A GM should listen to the arguments brought up by the players but once the call is made, it is incumbent on the players to accept it and move on.

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