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In a recent homebrew campaign, my party found a Talisman of Reluctant Wishes. In short, it grants a wish, but also leaves behind a diamond worth 1,000gp * the Charisma score of the character who activated it. Between this item and another thread I saw on here recently, I was wondering, what's the highest level you can bring an ability score to? I searched a bit, but most discussions seem to end up focusing on STR, since it's so much easier to buff to massive levels. For my own situation, I'm trying to stick to Paizo material, and preferably remaining a playable character, though theory-crafting can be entertaining. :)
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As written, there is no upper limit your ability scores can be. The table on page 17 of the CRB is written up to 45, however it also includes this nifty little "etc". So theoretically, if I wanted to have a 60 strength, it is possible. Just highly unlikely. I see you've written it out to 50 strength, which is doable by level 20. If your game goes beyond level 20, and you have access to items that don't just make your character large, but instead, oh, colossal... You can see where this is going.
For strength and con you forgot the synergy of courageous and furious. Furious makes the weapon function as an effective enhancement bonus of 2 grater. So you can reach up to +7 effective. Then courageous provides a +3 instead of a +2. If you take Improved Eldritch Heritage and the Abyssal (and I think Orc) bloodline then it grants up to a +6 strength at level 17. If you use Righteous Might instead of Enlarge Person (no way to have it 100% of the time) you will get a +4 bonus to strength and con rather than the normal +2 from enlarge person.
Don't forget the +2 profane bonus that can be granted by a succubus.
If you're just looking at counting it for a single roll, you should include Moment of Greatness as it doubles all morale bonuses on one roll or check.
Dragon Disciple will grant another +4 str, +2 con, and +2 int as you level it.
Monstrous Physique is better than Enlarge Person or Reduce Person if all you're looking at is the theoretical maximum. You can increase your relative size bonuses to +6 instead of +2.
Don't forget the +2 profane bonus that can be granted by a succubus.
If you're just looking at counting it for a single roll, you should include Moment of Greatness as it doubles all morale bonuses on one roll or check.
Dragon Disciple will grant another +4 str, +2 con, and +2 int as you level it.
Monstrous Physique is better than Enlarge Person or Reduce Person if all you're looking at is the theoretical maximum. You can increase your relative size bonuses to +6 instead of +2.
I think the idea is to focus on possible permanent bonueses, not things you may be able to use occasionally.
So, I'd probably rule out Monstrous Physique as counting, Moment of Greatness, and even Dragon Disciple. Dragon Disciple because you need 6 levels of it to pick it and up, and to be able to cast spells. Even if you use the racial spell like ability loophole to get into dragon disciple and don't take a spell casting class you would only get 14 levels of barbarian (assuming barbarian since it gives you the greatest possible class strength boost) losing tireless rage (rage cycling) and mighty rage (+2 str/con). While you technically come out 2 strength a head, overall it doesn't work well.'
I will go back to my earlier post though and say the bonus from Improved Eldritch Heritage is an inherent bonus and wont stack with the inherent bonus from the Manual of Gainful Exercise.
Tricky... Lets see.
20th level evolutionist summoner...
Biped eidolon starts with 16 strength
by 20th level its a 24...
3 points worth of attribute bonuses from levels 5 10 and 15.... so we're at 27 now...
10 points for huge gives a +16 size bonus... 43 so far...
16 evolution points spent on strength gives us 8 more...
Thats a 51 strength before gear...
Slap that belt on ... 57 strength...
Slap some muleback cords on just because why not, eh?
Carrying capacity strength is calculated as a 65...
now is that a 25+10+10+10+10 meaning a 266*4*4*4*4 and 800*4*4*4*4 for carrying capacity?
That would mean 68000 pounds for a light load, top out at 204000 pounds for a heavy load...
so BAB is 38... Damage from claw is d4+23. any extra evolution on the summoners part can start the one claw improved rend tree so that one claw rend would be 3d4+57 followed by any d4+23 clawstrikes that follow that arent rending... still not what i'd call epic gamebreaking damage... (thankfully only one rend per round)
Or you know... replace rending claw with huge +5 stalking tetsubo of impact... Get some nice long lasting invisibility spells and spend a few minutes admiring your target...
Not even SURE what the reach would be when huge biped gets a 15 foot reach with claws and you put a huge tetsubo in their hand...
Hope you bought 2 of those tetsubos because its time for 'Twin Eidolon'...
In the words of Kevin Spacey's character from the Negotiator preview which never made it into the movie...
---Now they're going to have to deal with both of us---
I can see some fun to be had
For a permanent polymorph effect have a wizard to cast Polymorph Any Object on you to permanently turn into something that boosts your strength.
I would suggest an Earth Elemental via Elemental Body III since that (more or less) allows you to wear and use equipment such as your fancy sword while adding a +6 strength bonus (+4 over and above Enlarge Person). (Assumes you are polymorphed permanently without wearing anything, then you equip your Elemental form properly).
- Gauss
For strength and con you forgot the synergy of courageous and furious. Furious makes the weapon function as an effective enhancement bonus of 2 grater. So you can reach up to +7 effective. Then courageous provides a +3 instead of a +2. If you take Improved Eldritch Heritage and the Abyssal (and I think Orc) bloodline then it grants up to a +6 strength at level 17. If you use Righteous Might instead of Enlarge Person (no way to have it 100% of the time) you will get a +4 bonus to strength and con rather than the normal +2 from enlarge person.
Note that Greater Eldritch Heritage with orc bloodline allows picking 15th level power of giants which grants +6 size bonus to Strength for a limited amount of time beating righteous might's +4.
For STR don't forget +10 Size from Form of the Dragon 3 and +10 morale bonus from Blood Rage. Blood Reservoir of Physical Prowess is a +8 Inherent bonus though it is very temporary. Divine Power gives a +6 Luck bonus. Also Magic Jar can be used to get a base STR of the strongest monster you can possess. The pay off for this is really using Blood Money to cast free Wishes (and more importantly use said Free Wishes to make Free Simulacrums).
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Some great suggestions guys, loving the input. :) Let's see some more. :D
@Claxon : Good call on Furious, adjusted for it now. I can't find the Orc Bloodline. Got a link? PRD if possible, I can't access the SRD. Updated for the Abyssal adjustment, a further +1 over what the manuals would have given. Permanent or regularly reliable is good, though any one-off boosts are worth noting. If we multiclass Barbarian and DD, maybe throw in some Oracle for Lame Curse or some Wizard for spellcasting, I think our reliable max can be increased.
@ Angry Wiggles : I wonder how Dragon Disciple meshes with Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)? Technically there's no issue, but I think the intent would be that the if you were taking Dragon Disciple and Eldritch Heritage, it would have to be with the Draconic bloodline. Still, for the purposes of this, I think the 2 could mesh, and it does increase total STR, so I'll add it in. We lose Mighty Rage, but gain +4 STR, a net gain of 2. Adjusted.
We could go Barbarian 11 for Greater Rage, Dragon Disciple 4 for +4 STR, then maybe Wizard 4, with the 3 spellcasting levels from DD to give us 4th level spells. That'd give us access to Monstrous Physique II for +4 size bonus to STR instead of the +2 from Enlarge Person. Good call. And we could take that last level in Oracle with the Lame Curse, so we could still Rage Cycle. :D
If we're worried about not having a 1st level SLA for entry to DD, we could always swap out the Oracle level for a level of Sorcerer. No rage cycling, but no argument that it would give the required prerequisite.
@ Gauss : Polymorphing does add another element to the formula, good call. What's the best form we can wring out of it? Will the bonus from it be replacing the + 4 Orcish Racial, or the +4 Size bonus from Monstrous Physique?
Elemental Body is a good catch, and let's us add a size bonus to our Con as well. :D Gets me thinking about all the various body/form spells. What's the best one we can reliably access? The shapes/bodies/forms seem to all be size bonuses, so replace Monstrous Physique/Enlarge/Reduce/Righteous Might.
@ Anzyr : I'm not sure how we can get access to 8th level spells without sacrificing too many other bonuses. Got a secret to share? Divine Power is a luck bonus, which would be cool, but it's not a bonus to the ability score, just STR checks. Blood Rage seems to be a monster ability, how could our character get their hands on it? It seems to be an untyped bonus, so would probably stack, though I could see the argument that its rage bonus wouldn't stack with our Barbarian rage (morale) bonus. The Blood Reservoir of Physical Prowess would be an extra boost, only slightly above the inherent manual boost/ Abyssal bloodlines, and is only for one turn, which is a bit of a limiter. Noting it all the same though.
And let's not neglect the Mental stats, let's see some Massively Mental Maxing too. :D
@ Thomas Long 175 : Going with your suggestion for now, though I think I've heard something about Aasimar being able to get +4 in some Mental stats? Anyone know more?
Base 18 + Racial 4 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 6 + Levels 5 + Greater Rage 6 + Furious/Courageous 3 + Dragon Disciple 4 + Succubus Profane Gift 2 + Monstrous Physique II 4 = 58
Base 18 + Racial 2 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 5 + Levels 5 + Greater Rage 6 + Furious/Courageous 3 + Dragon Disciple 2 + Succubus Profane Gift 2 + Raging Vitality 2 = 51
Base 18 + Racial 4 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 5 + Levels 5 + Urban Controlled Greater Rage 6 + Furious/Courageous 3 + Succubus Profane Gift 2 + Monstrous Physique III 6 = 55
Base 18 + Racial 2 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 5 + Levels 5 + Grand Cognatogen 8 + Awakened Intellect 2 = 46
Base 18 + Racial 2 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 5 + Levels 5 + Grand Cognatogen 8 = 44
Base 18 + Racial 2 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 5 + Levels 5 + Grand Cognatogen 8 = 44
Blood Reservoir of Physical Prowess gives an inherent bonus to a physical ability score, of up to +8. This bonus only lasts for one turn however.
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I think I can bump strength up even higher.
(Barbarian 11, Druid 8, Alchemist 1)
Base 18 + Racial 4 + Enhancement 6 + Inherent 6 + Levels 5 + Greater Rage 6 + Blood Vengence (orc feat that triggers when an ally is taken down) 2 + Amplified Rage (teamwork feat that triggers when an adjacent ally is raging) 4 + Furious/Couragous enhancement 3 + Succubus 2 + Wild shape (into any huge animal. Not picky there) 6 + True Mutagen (purchased from a 20th level alchemist with the infuse mutagen discovery) 8 = 70
That's a +30 modifier, an unbuffed 817,152 pound LIGHT LOAD, a 2,457,600 pound HEAVY LOAD, the ability to drag 12,288,000 pounds. (Muleback cords and a casting of ant haul increase this to a hilarious 110,592,000 pounds, which even of the cheapest item [firewood, 1 cp for 20 pounds] would be 55,296 gold pieces in value, more than the wealth by level of a 9th level character. In firewood.)
If this is a strength check, you can have a strength domain cleric use his "Strength Surge" domain power to replace your +6 enhancement from the belt with a +10 enhancement bonus, and you can use your own barbarian "Strength Surge" to get a +5 bonus, plus a friendly "Good Hope" for an additional +2, creating a strength modifier of +39 on any one check,. More bonuses are out there, but since it's not part of this challenge, I think we can all agree that we're good with a +39 on a straight strength check, enough to burst 3 inches of iron or a foot thick reinforced masonry wall with a standard action.
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Alternate:
(Barbarian 11, Sorcerer 4, Dragon Disciple 4, Alchemist 1)
Base 18 + Racial 4 + Enhancement (sacrificing a wordspell "Enhance Form (Body)") 8 + Inherent (blood reservoir) 8 + Levels 5 + Greater Rage 6 + Blood Vengence (orc feat that triggers when an ally is taken down) 2 + Amplified Rage (teamwork feat that triggers when an adjacent ally is raging) 4 + Moment of Greatness 12 + Furious/Couragous enhancement 3 + Succubus 2 + Form of the Dragon III (from a scroll, I suppose) 10 + True Mutagen (purchased from a 20th level ragechemist with the infuse mutagen discovery) 10 + Dragon Disciple 4 = 96
Very, very temporary bonuses, but during normal rages, without a downed friend, a fellow raging orc, and without the one-round duration buffs, he has 74 str.
Edit: moment of greatness added
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For a permanent polymorph effect have a wizard to cast Polymorph Any Object on you to permanently turn into something that boosts your strength.
I would suggest an Earth Elemental via Elemental Body III since that (more or less) allows you to wear and use equipment such as your fancy sword while adding a +6 strength bonus (+4 over and above Enlarge Person). (Assumes you are polymorphed permanently without wearing anything, then you equip your Elemental form properly).
- Gauss
I know my magus is starting to carry scrolls of Elemental Body II, and will eventually have Elemental III for the +6 size adjustment to Dexterity.