SO, it looks like if you are going to play PFS, that PDF is far superior to buying the hardcovers.
|
SO, it looks like if you are going to play PFS, that PDF is far superior to buying the hardcovers.
That is only true based upon what you consider to be "superior." Some people prefer to have the hardcover books - for them, such books are faster to look through, easier to read, etc. For them, the hardback books are "superior."
I prefer hardback books, and own many of them, but I own the .pdfs for almost all of them. The .pdfs are more affordable for me, so I can nearly always purchase them. I sometimes have to wait to purchase the hardcovers based upon liquid funds at the time.
Both versions have their advantages. When I am running a home game, I want my hardcovers with me - even if I have to haul them to a friend's house. However, if I am running at a convention or game day, the .pdfs are better for me - less to haul around a huge convention center or whatever.
So, really, I think on the whole, it's just a matter of preference.
|
CA, this also may, at present, be a bit past your means (based on what you posted earlier), but do you have a Half-Price Books near you? I find all kinds of gaming books, including Pathfinder, there. If you're looking for a specific book, you might be able to make do with that. The cost won't be as low as a .pdf, but you might find it reasonable just the same.
Every time I've gone in there the only Pathfinder books they've had are the Tales novels.. And I'm in the same area you are :(. How often does their stock change?
|
|
CA, this also may, at present, be a bit past your means (based on what you posted earlier), but do you have a Half-Price Books near you? I find all kinds of gaming books, including Pathfinder, there. If you're looking for a specific book, you might be able to make do with that. The cost won't be as low as a .pdf, but you might find it reasonable just the same.Every time I've gone in there the only Pathfinder books they've had are the Tales novels.. And I'm in the same area you are :(. How often does their stock change?
If you are in the same area I am, I found the Bestiary and some of its follow-ups at the one near Castleton. But, I don't know how frequently they change their stock, so I may have just been there at the right time.
SO, it looks like if you are going to play PFS, that PDF is far superior to buying the hardcovers.That is only true based upon what you consider to be "superior." Some people prefer to have the hardcover books - for them, such books are faster to look through, easier to read, etc. For them, the hardback books are "superior."
I prefer hardback books, and own many of them, but I own the .pdfs for almost all of them. The .pdfs are more affordable for me, so I can nearly always purchase them. I sometimes have to wait to purchase the hardcovers based upon liquid funds at the time.
Both versions have their advantages. When I am running a home game, I want my hardcovers with me - even if I have to haul them to a friend's house. However, if I am running at a convention or game day, the .pdfs are better for me - less to haul around a huge convention center or whatever.
So, really, I think on the whole, it's just a matter of preference.
I did qualify my statement as regarding PFS, where you need to have your sources with you. I can't see where having lugging the hardcovers to the venue would be superior to a digital version. Sure, in a home setting, the hardcover would be just fine, where they could reside on the shelf and be referenced easily when needed, but if PFS was your primary playstyle, and especially in light of this rules 'clarification', I can't ever see a reason to waste the money on the physical books.
Personally, when generating or maintaining a character, in either case, I find d20pfsrd to be superior to either paid option, simply due to its structure, and its combining of all sources into a single repository (better than paizo's prd, where things are still separated by the book they come from). So, in that respect, if the rule is you have to have purchased the source to use, the easiest thing is to use d20pfsrd as your source for character generation, and then purchase the appropriate pdf's, just to be able to carry them on your phone/tablet, and basically never look at them.
|
SO, it looks like if you are going to play PFS, that PDF is far superior to buying the hardcovers.That is only true based upon what you consider to be "superior." Some people prefer to have the hardcover books - for them, such books are faster to look through, easier to read, etc. For them, the hardback books are "superior."
I prefer hardback books, and own many of them, but I own the .pdfs for almost all of them. The .pdfs are more affordable for me, so I can nearly always purchase them. I sometimes have to wait to purchase the hardcovers based upon liquid funds at the time.
Both versions have their advantages. When I am running a home game, I want my hardcovers with me - even if I have to haul them to a friend's house. However, if I am running at a convention or game day, the .pdfs are better for me - less to haul around a huge convention center or whatever.
So, really, I think on the whole, it's just a matter of preference.
I did qualify my statement as regarding PFS, where you need to have your sources with you. I can't see where having lugging the hardcovers to the venue would be superior to a digital version. Sure, in a home setting, the hardcover would be just fine, where they could reside on the shelf and be referenced easily when needed, but if PFS was your primary playstyle, and especially in light of this rules 'clarification', I can't ever see a reason to waste the money on the physical books.
Personally, when generating or maintaining a character, in either case, I find d20pfsrd to be superior to either paid option, simply due to its structure, and its combining of all sources into a single repository (better than paizo's prd, where things are still separated by the book they come from). So, in that respect, if the rule is you have to have purchased the source to use, the easiest thing is to use d20pfsrd as your source for character generation, and then purchase the appropriate pdf's, just to be able to carry...
Just be sure to check your features name since they cant legally use certain things anymore - sow up to an event with your feat improperly named and your liable to get audited even if you have the Correct source
|
|
I did qualify my statement as regarding PFS, where you need to have your sources with you. I can't see where having lugging the hardcovers to the venue would be superior to a digital version. Sure, in a home setting, the hardcover would be just fine, where they could reside on the shelf and be referenced easily when needed, but if PFS was your primary playstyle, and especially in light of this rules 'clarification', I can't ever see a reason to waste the money on the physical books.
Personally, when generating or maintaining a character, in either case, I find d20pfsrd to be superior to either paid option, simply due to its structure, and its combining of all sources into a single repository (better than paizo's prd, where things are still separated by the book they come from). So, in that respect, if the rule is you have to have purchased the source to use, the easiest thing is to use d20pfsrd as your source for character generation, and then purchase the appropriate pdf's, just to be able to carry...
You can play PFS in a private home. And, part of the challenge of hauling around the books is mitigated by choosing character options from just a couple of books. So, if you only use stuff, say, form the CRB, the ACG, and the ARG, that's only 3 books (and really, 2, since you're presumed to have the CRB anyway.) For the player who chooses options and items from lots of different books, sure, the .pdfs are more economical and more efficient, but whether or not that is superior is, as I said before, entirely subjective. For some, having the physical book to look through outweighs the burden to carry it.
For me, it's six of one or half-dozen of another.
|
|
I enjoy building complex characters. This involves using lots of books. I also enjoy being a library of information so I bring my books with me.
I have about 15 softcovers, and most hardcovers. Ult cam. and mythics I avoid due to the PFS rarity. I have some friend that always play with me and I like being able to supply their books for legality as well.
I bring them to every con and game I go to. Along with a tackle box of minis and dice.
I have an intrinsic value in being able to share and lend books. I could email my PDFs to people but it is not the same thing.
So, I am one of the those people Mr. Stratton is refering to.
I enjoy building complex characters. This involves using lots of books. I also enjoy being a library of information so I bring my books with me.
I have about 15 softcovers, and most hardcovers. Ult cam. and mythics I avoid due to the PFS rarity. I have some friend that always play with me and I like being able to supply their books for legality as well.
I bring them to every con and game I go to. Along with a tackle box of minis and dice.
I have an intrinsic value in being able to share and lend books. I could email my PDFs to people but it is not the same thing.
So, I am one of the those people Mr. Stratton is refering to.
Except that by my understanding of the 'rules clarification' here, loaning books only works to people in the same 'household' as far as satisfying legality. So two friends who both like complicated characters would each have to purchase the extensive library.
|
Except that by my understanding of the 'rules clarification' here, loaning books only works to people in the same 'household' as far as satisfying legality. So two friends who both like complicated characters would each have to purchase the extensive library.
If they always play together then there's no issue. As long as the player can supply a valid rules reference (as defined in the GtPFSOP) to the GM at the table when asked then the requirements are fulfilled.
|
Except that by my understanding of the 'rules clarification' here, loaning books only works to people in the same 'household' as far as satisfying legality. So two friends who both like complicated characters would each have to purchase the extensive library.
While this is true, there's also the case of the campaign leadership having often said to "use common sense". I'm sure no GM or VO would object to a group of friends only using a single copy of the APG (or whatever), right?
It's just that a Paizo employee can't publicly and explicitly say that this is allowed. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's best for Paizo if it is drawn clearly.
Tangent. It reminds me of that time where Bethesda, the giant video game publisher, sued Mojang Studios (a smaller publisher that made Minecraft). Mojang had made a game called Scrolls. Bethesda is the owner of the series The Elder Scrolls (e.g. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, ..). There was some outrage over this. Surely "Scrolls" was not a similar enough name to warrant a lawsuit. "Skyrim" isn't even known by the name "The Elder Scrolls"! It's just Skyrim!
It is my understanding that Bethesda sued, because they need to publicly protect their IP. Something like, if you fail to sue for the smaller things, it becomes harder to protect your copyright in larger issues in the future. Something like that.
Anyway, I can understand how Paizo needs to make their point very clearly, and set up some seemingly draconic rules with regard to their intellectual property and copyright. By explicitly allowing borderline infringements like two friends sharing a book, you're opening the door to the issue snowballing out of control fast.
So I guess, in practice, use common sense, and use RAI instead of RAW. Just realize that Paizo reps might have to follow these rules much more strictly than they might even want to.
I am not a lawyer. This is my personal understanding of this issue, as a guy who's been playing PFS for less than two months.
|
|
Something evberyone that plans to GM PFS should read.
I have seen a presitigeous PFS GM, not allow a father and son to share an ultimate combat sitting at the same table.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just read the link that Finlanderboy posted.
Here is the part that caught my eye (not sure I have noticed it before):
"What do I need to bring to a game to use non-core material?
In order to use additional resources for your character, you must bring a physical copy of the book with you or printouts of the appropriate pages detailing cost (if any) and explanations for each feat, item, spell, prestige class, and so on that you use. One need not prove ownership of said material but they must be from a legally obtained PDF or book printed by Paizo Publishing; content reproduced in other sources under the Open Gaming License (such as an online reference document or a homemade omnibus) is not legal with regard to use in sanctioned Pathfinder Society play. Since the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, we cannot assume that every Game Master will have the products included in the Additional Resources list. As such, it is each player's responsibility to bring to the game any necessary rules for running his or her character so that GMs may properly adjudicate the game during play."
The bold part is what is highlighted. If that, is indeed, the requirement, then talk of ownership is moot. This rule only requires that the book be "...legally obtained..." and that certainly could include someone just loaning the book to another.
If that rule IS different than what is being discussed, then either this rule needs to be changed on that page, or the other discussions about it are irrelevant.
How did I not notice that language before?
Now, nothing in that rule contradicts the last part, which requires EACH player to bring those necessary items to the table (and I think this is where the family-sharing-a-copy rule clarifies this part, sure.)
But, it is clear that one need not prove ownership of the book, so perhaps we no longer need to focus on that part of the conversation. Oh, wait, I'm confused - that's in another thread.
|
|
Prestigious PFS GM is like saying celebrity bowler or sexy grandpa. It's not really applicable. My wife buys all our PDFs since our AP subscription is on her account and we get a discount. If I sat at a table and she and I (and/or my son) couldn't share resources I'd just get up and walk away. Though I'd probably drop some choice words for our GM. The real law thinks of ownership very differently than his interpretation of PFS guidelines.Something evberyone that plans to GM PFS should read.
I have seen a presitigeous PFS GM, not allow a father and son to share an ultimate combat sitting at the same table.
I was upset and told them they should go back and showed them that the GM was in error. But not everyone wants to confront people.
Well I pointed out the type of DM to show that they are just as likely to make a mistake, but are worse with their mistake due to their percieved experience confused with omniscience.
I have seen newer DMs do this as well, btu that could be chalked up to inexperience.
