Retraining due to failure to own books


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Grand Lodge 5/5

Mistwalker wrote:

That seems to be little harsh and judgmental. And painting everyone with the same brush.

There has been some confusion over photocopies being used. Not everyone one started their player base from scratch. Not everyone plays the game in a store (I mostly do Cons and not in store Game Days) where they usually have a bit more time for discussing non-scenario related items.

In the last not in store Game Day that I GMed at, I let the players that I GMed for know that there was talk about character audits and that the resource rule would likely be more strictly enforced in the future.

My approach is to warn players that the changes are coming, and to ease into them. To give them a chance to clean up their player portfolios and if need be, buy the resource books that they may need to make their PC legal.

Obviously, with a single GMing star to my name, I did not start PFS in my area, and that I inherited a small player base (as did the new VL in may area). I am trying to help grow it in a friendly manner.

I liked your post before I read the last phrase, which leaves a bad taste, and makes it all too easy to put you in the "oh, one of those" category and to skip your posts in the future - which would be wrong as the first part did provide some good suggestions and guidance.

I'll grant you the bit on photocopies, though to be honest I've never actually seen people do that.Then again, the majority of the player base in this area are current or former military, so carrying 40 pounds of books in a backpack isn't as big a deal for them. I think though that the point stands that if you're lax for awhile, people will grow used to it. If you plant the expectation early then it's not as big of a deal when you do start the "crackdown".


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Michael Meunier wrote:
I'll grant you the bit on photocopies, though to be honest I've never actually seen people do that.Then again, the majority of the player base in this area are current or former military, so carrying 40 pounds of books in a backpack isn't as big a deal for them. I think though that the point stands that if you're lax for awhile, people will grow used to it. If you plant the expectation early then it's not as big of a deal when you do start the "crackdown".

I have seen the photocopy portfolio (the players in question do have the books, just didn't want to lug them around if they didn't have to).

I agree that if you have been lax, that it is harder and requires more work to enforce the rules going forward.

But I still think that we should focus on how to correct the situation, rather than hammer home to some that they made mistakes.

I think that I would have liked your pervious post much more if you had finished with something like:
If you have been lax, you will have to work hard and be diplomatic to correct your laxness. I would suggest that you bite the bullet, tell your players that made a few mistakes and that from date xxxx you will be enforcing the rules.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Lormyr wrote:
I would just like to point out that some of us do have integrity.

I would guess that the "some" is more like "most," but that doesn't stop Paizo from copywriting their products. The is a small group who will break the rules no matter what. We can't do much about them. However, most law-abiding people will not adhere to a law if you stop enforcing it. ATM the rule is that you must bring documentation to the table. We can, and should, continue the discourse about possible alternatives as the Paizo library continues to grow. However, let's not lose focus on what the rules ARE and follow them.

As to some of the comments regarding VO/5-stars, as a group, we work very hard promoting PFS and encouraging not only sales that help both Paizo and retailers, but ushering in new players. Our passion for following the rules does not equate to any wish to see people go away. There is some truth to PFS not being for everyone and some people playing would be better served doing something else. However, that does not mean we want them to go.

At the core, there are two aspects of this discussion; (1) what the rules are, and (2) what the rules should be. Following #1 and expecting everyone else to do the same is not BadWrongFun. My comments earlier were with respect the current version of the guide. Whether or not I/you/we agree with the documentation rule is not relevant. You MUST provide documentation or that character is not eligible for play. I/you/we can also encourage leadership to consider some changes.

I just do not want anyone to refuse to bring the requirements and then blame the GM when s/he is just enforcing the rules.

I get that. And I am certainly not suggesting everyone revolt. At this stage, I think it would be reasonable to say that everyone is aware of my opinion on the matter, and why I hold that opinion. For the time being I will work to operate within the boundaries of the guideline as best I am able while continuing to keep awareness of the topic alive so potential amendments can be considered.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

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John Francis wrote:
The problem is not that the rules are the same as they were four or five years ago; the problem is that those rules just aren't being enforced. That means that 'we' (the PFS community) have been training our player base to expect the non-enforcement of the rules. Changing the way we act now is bound to cause some level of resentment; the trick is to minimize this, while still meeting the requirements of campaign management.

While that might be the case for some, my group worked very hard to remain courteous to our GMs and stay within the rules. We began playing as part of PFS in Oct 2012, and prior to that when I was looking around at the guidelines and on the forums, we found one of Mike Brock's post about photocopies. At the time I read it I incorrectly believed it was in reference to photocopies in general. A number of others have said they also carried away a mistaken impression from the same. I understand now that our understanding of those posts were faulty, but everyone we have played with carried the same misunderstanding after I pointed them towards it on the boards.

So for us, it wasn't that we were skirting the rules. We had a mistaken belief of what those rules were. Same results yes, but I feel the intentions behind are worth a distinction.

5/5 *

For the people suggesting the "sign-off" sheet solution, that is all well and good but it still does not solve the problem of having the resource available at the table in case the GM needs to reference a rule.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

CRobledo wrote:
For the people suggesting the "sign-off" sheet solution, that is all well and good but it still does not solve the problem of having the resource available at the table in case the GM needs to reference a rule.

I believe the intended course is to have the sign-off sheet as proof of legal ownership combined with photocopies from those books on hand for GM reference.

For example, I take my copy of Ultimate Magic that is signed in ink with my name and PFS number in the cover to my local game day. After verifying my ownership of that book, he signs my sign-off sheet with the date, his/her name, and his/her PFS number. Now, when I carry this sheet with me, I can use a photocopy of the page containing the spell anticipate peril for my character rather than carry the entire book around for that single item.

5/5 *

And as a secondary question... (DISCLAIMER: I have no plans to do this myself, but as an argument)

I have seen one person who removed his whole CRB from the spine and created a new "book" with a 3-ring binder by punching all the pages. What if someone wanted to bring just single original pages with his characters?

Lantern Lodge 3/5

CRobledo wrote:

And as a secondary question... (DISCLAIMER: I have no plans to do this myself, but as an argument)

I have seen one person who removed his whole CRB from the spine and created a new "book" with a 3-ring binder by punching all the pages. What if someone wanted to bring just single original pages with his characters?

I am uncertain what the goal in that action would be. You may have to explain this further to me.

5/5 *

Well, you are bringing only one page, but it an original page from the book, not a photocopy. I'm saying someone actually taking an exacto knife and slicing out the page with their character's feat/archetype/whatever as to not carry around the whole book.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

CRobledo wrote:
Well, you are bringing only one page, but it an original page from the book, not a photocopy. I'm saying someone actually taking an exacto knife and slicing out the page with their character's feat/archetype/whatever as to not carry around the whole book.

I see. Well, while I personally find that rather extreme and totally unnecessary, I can't imagine how anyone could argue that it wasn't from a legitimate source...

Edit: Though I suppose some could make the same argument of how can we know that it comes from your sources, and not some poor schmuck who's book you ruined.

2/5

Wow. That is extreme! LOL. I'm uncertain how I would react to that! I guess as long as it technically fits the qualification of a 'legal additional resource,' I would be OK with it.

5/5 *

Well, just as a note I do know of a player who turned his whole CRB into individual loose pages bound in a 3-ring binder. So all that player would have to do (theoretically) is to open the binder, pull one page out, and take that page instead.

(Assuming of course the book in question was not the CRB but a book in the additional resources. Using the CRB example because it is a real-life example. I could see the same player doing the same with the APG or whatever)

1/5

CRobledo wrote:

And as a secondary question... (DISCLAIMER: I have no plans to do this myself, but as an argument)

I have seen one person who removed his whole CRB from the spine and created a new "book" with a 3-ring binder by punching all the pages. What if someone wanted to bring just single original pages with his characters?

Beyond someone doing it just to bring a single page, I see it as an excellent solution to a common problem in 1st edition printings. The spine commonly goes on the earlier prints of the CRB. I know of 5 people with CRBs held together with duct tape. In addition the spine of my 1st ed print is starting to go. I may just do this and use it as a backup.

5/5

How can I tell the difference between a page sliced out of a book and a really good color copy?

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Feel of the paper, I imagine.

5/5

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Jiggy wrote:
Feel of the paper, I imagine.

I am not.

Feeling.

My player's sources.

To check for validity.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

The biggest sign that something is photocopies from a large book is the distortion that happens to the copy near the spine. If somebody photocopied a page, back-and-front from a 32-page supplement and did whatever clever things needed to be done in order to make it look like a ripped-out page from the booklet, it would probably fool me.

1/5

Well if it is just a really good full color copy high quality glossy paper.....I will chuckle because the player spent more printing out their "copy" than just buying a new book.

1/5 **

Michael Meunier wrote:
In short, if other folks have instilled a sense of "we can skirt the rules" in their players, then you're just reaping what you've sewn.

Sown. ;-)

1/5

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I won't reply directly to said post above but....FLAG IT!

1/5 **

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If, in fact, people are being banned without warning or notification, then that is a serious threat to the integrity of the community. However:

1. I have a hard time believing things went down as described; and
2. Even if they did, this isn't the way to address it.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Ok so I haven't read this whole thread (DAMN it's long!) but I did notice today when I went to print out pdf pages I noticed that NONE of them had the name of the book anywhere on it! You got this nice line at the top AND bottom that has name, email, date, some weird #, but no book name? WTF.... why? How am I to show the GM what book the page is from? Now I gotta go through all my printouts and figure out what book each is from and write it on the page. If PFS is going to require us to have this kind of info PLEASE do your darnedest to make it as painless as possible.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

I've been giving quite a bit of thought on how set player expectations appropriately. I think I'm going to start with this requirement from the Guide to PFS Organized Play:

Guide wrote:
You must inform the Game Master that you plan to use Additional Resource material before play begins, so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the new material.

While this is taken from the latest V5.0 version of the guide, the same requirement was present in earlier versions. And that is pretty clearly a rule where the onus for compliance falls on the player.

I'm probably going to begin asking players to provide a summary sheet for any character played at my tables showing what Additional Resource material is being used. That (and the new Inventory Tracking System) should go a long way to making players aware of what they need to do.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Felix Gaunt wrote:
Ok so I haven't read this whole thread (DAMN it's long!) but I did notice today when I went to print out pdf pages I noticed that NONE of them had the name of the book anywhere on it! You got this nice line at the top AND bottom that has name, email, date, some weird #, but no book name? WTF.... why? How am I to show the GM what book the page is from? Now I gotta go through all my printouts and figure out what book each is from and write it on the page. If PFS is going to require us to have this kind of info PLEASE do your darnedest to make it as painless as possible.

I don't think that's an issue, as so long the ability/race/class/etc in question is clearly there. If you're really concerned about it, usually when you're printing from PDFs you can specify non-consecutuive pages. Hence you could just print the cover and/or copyright/credits page by just putting in 1 (or 2) , X, Y-Z in the page number box when you print.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

John Francis wrote:


I'm probably going to begin asking players to provide a summary sheet for any character played at my tables showing what Additional Resource material is being used. That (and the new Inventory Tracking System) should go a long way to making players aware of what they need to do.

I do that for my characters now (put it in the background section of HeroLab) and you'd be surprised at the howling I got from people when I suggested I might start asking for a list, jsut of list, of additional resources from the local community when I GM. The FB group was made private by our VC recently, but let's just say it was, poorly received.

I also got a shocked look at Origins when I played Ksenia and said "Hey, I've got my list of additional resources here, want to see them?" He was kind of shocked that I had a list to share.

Scarab Sages 5/5

John Francis wrote:


I've been giving quite a bit of thought on how set player expectations appropriately. I think I'm going to start with this requirement from the Guide to PFS Organized Play:

Guide wrote:
You must inform the Game Master that you plan to use Additional Resource material before play begins, so he has a chance to familiarize himself with the new material.

While this is taken from the latest V5.0 version of the guide, the same requirement was present in earlier versions. And that is pretty clearly a rule where the onus for compliance falls on the player.

I'm probably going to begin asking players to provide a summary sheet for any character played at my tables showing what Additional Resource material is being used. That (and the new Inventory Tracking System) should go a long way to making players aware of what they need to do.

While they are changing expectations perhaps having a list of additional resources used, and page number, should be a REQUIREMENT. In addition to being an easy reference to what you have to bring, it would make it easy to see that something taken was not allowed.

5/5

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have my own issue with this. I understand the need to support the game and the brand. I have physical and PDF copies of most of the current books minus some APs, modules and scenarios. I also have Hero Lab which I means I end up buying the books again.

My problem is my girlfriend. I recently got her into PFS. She doesn't play as often and we have done a couple of events at separate tables. I bought her a copy of the CRB so she would have her own to reference during the game. My issue is that we live together, and now I'm being told as a result of the FAQ that we're going to have to fork over another $100 in PDF's, buying the books one more time, just so she can play. According to the FAQ people at the same table are safe but not those playing separate. We have yet to be called on this but I think this is a step too far.

The book requirement should extend to the household. Significant others and children should allowed to use one set of books in the same household, regardless of format (physical/pdf).

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Soluzar wrote:
The book requirement should extend to the household.

It does.

Merry Christmas! :D


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Will you both be playing PCs that use the same resources, at the same time?

Also, if you have both the physical copies and the PDFs, is there a reason why she couldn't use the physical copies while you use the PDFs (as they are watermarked in your name)?

Grand Lodge 5/5

Soluzar.Just play at the same tables. As far as playing at separate tables... I might suggest just buying the needed books and that is all for her character and in her name. I doubt it would be $100 worth of PDF's for just ONE or even TWO characters. PDF's are not that spendy and even then... most characters do not use more then a few books.

Either way I wish you luck.

Grand Lodge 5/5

The thing that amazes me about this thread though, is the fact that this has been a rule all along. Why is it such a big deal now?

We have always NEEDED the book before if we are to use something from said book. We needed the Additional Resources printed out or as a PDF readable on a computer or digital device of some type to be able to use said books too for each and every character with special things from a book.

This has always been the rule.. so why is so many people up in arms about it now??


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Deanoth wrote:
This has always been the rule.. so why is so many people up in arms about it now??

Off the top of my head:

1) Because the clarification now removes any possibility of different interpretation. A lot of folks have the books, leave them at home and brought a photocopy of the relevant pages - still supporting Paizo, but not wanting to drag everything to Game Days or Cons.

2) A lot of folks were not really aware of the rule.

3) It hasn't been enforced in the past, and it looks like it may in the future.

1/5

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Soluzar wrote:

My issue is that we live together, and now I'm being told as a result of the FAQ that we're going to have to fork over another $100 in PDF's, buying the books one more time, just so she can play. According to the FAQ people at the same table are safe but not those playing separate. We have yet to be called on this but I think this is a step too far.

The book requirement should extend to the household. Significant others and children should allowed to use one set of books in the same household, regardless of format (physical/pdf).

From the PFS FAQ:

If two members of the same household wish to share a PDF, and find themselves playing at separate tables, one can utilize an electronic version on an iPad or similar item, while the other utilizes a printed watermarked copy.

Now, my wife and I share our PDFs that we buy from our own shared drive with offline access. Sorry, but if any GM or Venture officer kicks me off a table because I am using an iPad at one table while my wife is using an iPad at another table rather than a printed watermarked copy, I will happily leave without fuss.

I am seriously hoping that was an example of how to deal with one pdf/two tables, rather than the only required way, to have one electronic and one printed.

5/5

Soluzar wrote:

I have my own issue with this. I understand the need to support the game and the brand. I have physical and PDF copies of most of the current books minus some APs, modules and scenarios. I also have Hero Lab which I means I end up buying the books again.

My problem is my girlfriend. I recently got her into PFS. She doesn't play as often and we have done a couple of events at separate tables. I bought her a copy of the CRB so she would have her own to reference during the game. My issue is that we live together, and now I'm being told as a result of the FAQ that we're going to have to fork over another $100 in PDF's, buying the books one more time, just so she can play. According to the FAQ people at the same table are safe but not those playing separate. We have yet to be called on this but I think this is a step too far.

The book requirement should extend to the household. Significant others and children should allowed to use one set of books in the same household, regardless of format (physical/pdf).

If you look at this post by Mike Brock you will see that she can use your rulebooks in specific ways when you're not at the same table.

When you sit together it doesn't matter. When sitting at different tables she can use your books, use your laptop or tablet with your PDFs on it, or she can borrow the watermarked printouts. The one thing you can't do is put your PDFs on her laptop or tablet.

5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
When sitting at different tables she can use your books, use your laptop or tablet with your PDFs on it, or she can borrow the watermarked printouts. The one thing you can't do is put your PDFs on her laptop or tablet.

If I have all of my PDF's on my tablet and I let her use it at the same event then what am I supposed to do then?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

Matthew Morris wrote:
John Francis wrote:


I'm probably going to begin asking players to provide a summary sheet for any character played at my tables showing what Additional Resource material is being used. That (and the new Inventory Tracking System) should go a long way to making players aware of what they need to do.
I do that for my characters now (put it in the background section of HeroLab) and you'd be surprised at the howling I got from people when I suggested I might start asking for a list, jsut of list, of additional resources from the local community when I GM. The FB group was made private by our VC recently, but let's just say it was, poorly received.

I've got a good opportunity to do it now, while the shine on my new VL badge hasn't rubbed off :-) I can tell players that I really don't have the discretion to ignore rules, especially if campaign management have made it clear they want them to be followed. Players are expecting some kind of change with a new local Venture Officer - I'm hoping we can all manage to live with "tough but fair".

Of course I'll discuss with my VC how flexible to be about verification at both local game stores and our upcoming convention.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Soluzar wrote:
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
When sitting at different tables she can use your books, use your laptop or tablet with your PDFs on it, or she can borrow the watermarked printouts. The one thing you can't do is put your PDFs on her laptop or tablet.
If I have all of my PDF's on my tablet and I let her use it at the same event then what am I supposed to do then?

Print out the watermarked pages that list the items/spells/feats/etc.. that her character uses, and have her use those.

You keep using your tablet.

4/5

Michael Meunier wrote:
Felix Gaunt wrote:
Ok so I haven't read this whole thread (DAMN it's long!) but I did notice today when I went to print out pdf pages I noticed that NONE of them had the name of the book anywhere on it! You got this nice line at the top AND bottom that has name, email, date, some weird #, but no book name? WTF.... why? How am I to show the GM what book the page is from? Now I gotta go through all my printouts and figure out what book each is from and write it on the page. If PFS is going to require us to have this kind of info PLEASE do your darnedest to make it as painless as possible.
I don't think that's an issue, as so long the ability/race/class/etc in question is clearly there. If you're really concerned about it, usually when you're printing from PDFs you can specify non-consecutuive pages. Hence you could just print the cover and/or copyright/credits page by just putting in 1 (or 2) , X, Y-Z in the page number box when you print.

I think the concern here would be that the book those pages come from is important in order to show that it's actually from a valid additional resource.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Sorry if this has already been suggested. I didn't really want to read through 9 pages of debate to see if it had.

Something that videogames have been doing lately is that physical copies of a game have some sort of registration code that you can take to the developers site and register to your account. You get some sort of benefit for registering your game online and there's a record that you purchased it.

Could something similar be done for physical copies of the book? People who purchase physical copies of the book could then register their purchase online with Paizo and print out an inventory of books and pdfs that they have purchased. They could bring that list with them and have photocopies of their relevant source material to play PFS games.

Seems that would be a good way to help out the people who would like to have a book without having to carry it around everywhere. Because the registration code would be distributed with the books, people could buy them from their local merchants and still have some way of Paizo officially recognizing that their purchase happened and was valid. Having a check list would serve as a official proof of purchase and then photocopies could be used.

Of course this would probably be tricky to deploy. But I suspect in the long run this would solve a lot of problems and animosity with this policy.

1/5

Acedio wrote:

Sorry if this has already been suggested. I didn't really want to read through 9 pages of debate to see if it had.

Something that videogames have been doing lately is that physical copies of a game have some sort of registration code that you can take to the developers site and register to your account. You get some sort of benefit for registering your game online and there's a record that you purchased it.

Could something similar be done for physical copies of the book? People who purchase physical copies of the book could then register their purchase online with Paizo and print out an inventory of books and pdfs that they have purchased. They could bring that list with them and have photocopies of their relevant source material to play PFS games.

Seems that would be a good way to help out the people who would like to have a book without having to carry it around everywhere. Because the registration code would be distributed with the books, people could buy them from their local merchants and still have some way of Paizo officially recognizing that their purchase happened and was valid. Having a check list would serve as a official proof of purchase and then photocopies could be used.

Of course this would probably be tricky to deploy. But I suspect in the long run this would solve a lot of problems and animosity with this policy.

Please no. Video game companies do that in order to cut down on resale. We don't need to kill off the First Sale Doctrine in PFS to placate a small percentage of people who have a huge pile of hardbacks they want to use.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Lab_Rat wrote:


Please no. Video game companies do that in order to cut down on resale. We don't need to kill off the First Sale Doctrine in PFS to placate a small percentage of people who have a huge pile of hardbacks they want to use.

Hm, I guess I was just thinking that the people who buy the books used would not be affected at all because they'd then have to bring in a physical copy of the book. They have to do this anyway with the current policy, do they not?

That being said, I don't really see that as being a problem to be perfectly honest with you. It doesn't seem odd to me to give people an incentive to buy their own copy of a product rather than buying it second hand.

Requiring the PDFs to be watermarked also effectively does the same thing, too. Unless I'm mistaken, the watermark is required to bear your name (unless shared by a group of friends or between a couple in which case my suggestion could also be applicable).

Edited with another counter point.


Soluzar wrote:

I have my own issue with this. I understand the need to support the game and the brand. I have physical and PDF copies of most of the current books minus some APs, modules and scenarios. I also have Hero Lab which I means I end up buying the books again.

My problem is my girlfriend. I recently got her into PFS. She doesn't play as often and we have done a couple of events at separate tables. I bought her a copy of the CRB so she would have her own to reference during the game. My issue is that we live together, and now I'm being told as a result of the FAQ that we're going to have to fork over another $100 in PDF's, buying the books one more time, just so she can play. According to the FAQ people at the same table are safe but not those playing separate. We have yet to be called on this but I think this is a step too far.

The book requirement should extend to the household. Significant others and children should allowed to use one set of books in the same household, regardless of format (physical/pdf).

It seems to me that you could just give her your copy as a gift. Then when she is done, she can give it back to you as a gift. Oddly, enough this might be different for the .pdf depending on your physical location and the IP laws therein, but for physical items it should work well enough.

5/5

Brian Lefebvre wrote:
The one thing you can't do is put your PDFs on her laptop or tablet.

Thus privileging married people over those who haven't yet achieved joint property ownership under the law? ;p

Liberty's Edge 3/5

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm actually curious about the reason for not allowing electronic versions of watermarked PDFs in the same household?

That doesn't seem to be an "encouraging a purchase" thing, since using a printed copy and an electronic copy simultaneously is allowed. It doesn't seem to be a license thing, since there's no separate license associated with purchasing a Paizo PDF. It doesn't seem to be a legal thing, because there's an approaching zero chance that such an action (sharing an electronic file with a member of your own household) would be infringement any more than having the printed + electronic version would be. (Assuming U.S. copyright law, which is my area of study.)

All that means for my house is that we won't play at different tables, but it strikes me as odd.

Sovereign Court 5/5

xellos wrote:

I'm actually curious about the reason for not allowing electronic versions of watermarked PDFs in the same household?

That doesn't seem to be an "encouraging a purchase" thing, since using a printed copy and an electronic copy simultaneously is allowed. It doesn't seem to be a license thing, since there's no separate license associated with purchasing a Paizo PDF. It doesn't seem to be a legal thing, because there's an approaching zero chance that such an action (sharing an electronic file with a member of your own household) would be infringement any more than having the printed + electronic version would be. (Assuming U.S. copyright law, which is my area of study.)

All that means for my house is that we won't play at different tables, but it strikes me as odd.

I'm sure that lots of corrections will pour in if I'm wrong, but I believe that it is illegal to have the same electronic data on two systems at the same time. You only paid for one.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Todd Lower wrote:
I'm sure that lots of corrections will pour in if I'm wrong, but I believe that it is illegal to have the same electronic data on two systems at the same time. You only paid for one.

That is my understanding as well. It has been clarified a few times that resource sharing is allowed for those who live in the same house - the issue is having the PDF stored on multiple devices as there is meant to be only one copy. That is my present understanding of the clarifications/changes.

The Exchange 2/5

Todd Lower wrote:
I'm sure that lots of corrections will pour in if I'm wrong, but I believe that it is illegal to have the same electronic data on two systems at the same time. You only paid for one.

You may actually be correct - which means that you can't back up a PDF and you can't leave it on your desktop computer if you put it on a tablet device. If your iPad is set to back up documents to iCloud - automatic infringement.

Vic has said elsewhere that Paizo doesn't really want to have to get a team of lawyers in to draft legalese that explicitly details all of the rights and exclusions, and hopes that people will be sensible enough in their behaviour not to force Paizo to have to do this.

My personal view is that, due to shared property rights, any married/civil-partnership/common-law-married couple (of whatever mix of genders) would be entitled to use the same electronic copy on two devices simultaneously. I'd hope that most GM's would accept this if explained to them why the name on the PDF didn't match the name of the person using it. I think it also wise to carry something signed by the person whose name is on the PDF though, just in case.

1/5 **

brock, no the other one... wrote:
My personal view is that, due to shared property rights, any married/civil-partnership/common-law-married couple (of whatever mix of genders) would be entitled to use the same electronic copy on two devices simultaneously.

Agreed. And while I don't speak for Paizo, I suspect if people just applied a little common sense (your spouse/children can use your copy, your friend has to buy his own, and don't even think about uploading stuff), then things like this wouldn't be an issue. *sigh*

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