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Hi All,
Just wanted to share my experience here. Having spoken to friends who deal with Paizo I was very surprised to have a negative experience and hope it is an exception.
After being very impressed with pathfinder products I decided to support the publisher and subscribe to Adventure Path direct rather than buy from Amazon. From what frieds told me Paizo would cost a little more but they package their product better and their customer service was superior.
Anyway - my first subscription edition arrived. It was packaged in a cardboard sleeve - which I was surprised at given what my friends had said about better packaging than Amazon. The corners were crushed and the corner/spine of the book was damaged. Small damage - but as a collector of mint editions not what I had paid for.
My basic benchmark for asking for a replacement is 'would I buy this off the shelf in a retail store' - and the answer in this case is 'No'
So I sent a photo to Paizo customer support - and was essentially told I should expect some small damage and they would not replace this. Wow - Amazon would replace this no problem and have in the past.
I am very dissapointed. I just ordered a heap more from Paizo too at significant expense and its too late to cancel. This is a real shame and not what I expected from this company - and from what I read in the forums not what others have experienced?
Anyway - something to consider for anyone considering subscribing. Maybe living in Australia the postage system here is the cause?
Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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Schade,
I'm sorry you're disappointed with the response you got from emailing customer service.
Unfortunately, the damage visible in your photo is not extensive enough that we are able to ship you a replacement. While most of our customers receive most of their shipments in mint or nearly mint condition, occasionally some shipments do end up with a bang or bump occurring during transit, especially international customers unfortunately. We typically handle damaged product on a case by case basis and generally our measuring stick for a replacement is similar to yours, "If it were on a store shelf, would I buy it?" but since we are shipping our products in the mail, we also have to take into consideration that sometimes, minimal damage may occur. The general measuring stick for whether or not to replace something that is slightly damaged is "Is the level of damage similar to or of a similar level to what might be expected from typical gaming use."
While damage to products is fairly rare, we can't guarantee that little bumps or bruises won't happen to your books. We do our best to package our products in a manner that results in packages getting to their destination in mint or near mint condition, and we are happy to replaced damage books when the damage warrants it. If specifically collecting mint editions is of the highest priority, I would suggest purchasing books through your local gaming store as we just can't guarantee minor scuffs and such won't ever happen to packages.
thanks
sara marie
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Schade, I'd like to add some real-life info for you. I'm in Canada.
I've got 72 adventure path books on my shelf. That's all the way from #1 to the most recent, no exceptions. Six years of monthly shipments.
In that time I've had one arrive literally three months after it was post-marked (hence entirely the postal service's fault). I've had a maximum of two with very light creasing at one corner. I think it's only one but I'll say two just in case.
The vast, vast majority of product that Paizo ships to me arrives unharmed and pristine. It shows up about 7 calendar days after they ship.
In seven or eight years or being a monthly subscriber to one Paizo product or another, I've had nothing but a stellar experience. Yes, I've had one or two cases where the wrong product was accidentally shipped and both times Paizo sent me the correct one immediately.
I haven't seen your photo and I won't address the damage you've got except to say that I've found Paizo beyond fair in my dealings with them. I mean it, their service has been far and away one of the two best experiences I've ever had with online purchases. (The other a small custom car-accessory manufacturer in Florida who is also a single-owner company who strives to succeed.)
Statistically you've hit an oddity. Or an abusive mail carrier. What you had happen to you isn't normal. Paizo can't and shouldn't plan for the rare psycho mail carrier. Not when the statistics show that their current packaging and efforts are almost always appropriate.
I hope your next package(s) show you how things usually work.
Oh, I'd also like to point out that Sara Marie's reply to you would've been about 6:30pm Paizo-time. I'm pretty sure they're a mostly 9-5 shop but you'll regularly see staffers posting almost 'round the clock. These people really, really do care.
My stuff is shipped in the US, and haven't noticed anything. That said, international shipping holds much greater potential for damaging materials than domestic, and have had friends who have gotten damaged stuff (not paizo products) due to the "tender care" of international shipping.
Thank you Anguish - maybe I am overreacting and should give them Paizo another chance. It was just a frustrating experience for my very first order.
Although now it seems my subscription has just been cancelled for some reason? Maybe Paizo took my complaint as a request to cancel or have just decided I am too difficult a customer. Sigh.
Although now it seems my subscription has just been cancelled for some reason? Maybe Paizo took my complaint as a request to cancel or have just decided I am too difficult a customer. Sigh.
I'm sure it's the former. There are many of us who are much more difficult than you. :p
(fwiw, I would have taken your OP the same way, although in retrospect you didnt actually ask for that). You can just add your subscription again.
I'm in Australia and my experience is very similar to Anguish. I have a complete Pathfinder library (barring three flipmats) and the number of books that have arrived damaged is maybe four?
Thanks Steve - appreciate the feedback - I probably shoul not have said 'mint' haha
Basically I just didn't like the spine crushed - as it looks cr@p on the shelf. I know the pages may get a little dog eared with use.
Oh well - you are right if the order in transit arrives ok I can always resubscribe.
Sara - I think I have been unreasonable and would like to apologise. It is clear to me that the item left your end in good condition, and this is a fault with our postal service here in the Blue Mountains according to a number of my neighbours.
It seems if the damage had been significant to the point the item was not usable you probably would have replaced - even though it was not your fault.
Thank you for your prompt reply's and good service. I will resubscribe and ship to my work address in the future which should decrease the chance of items being damaged significantly.
Thank-you and once again I apologise for unreasonably wasting your time
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Classy Paizo. Classy customer. Cool.
Schade, I'd like to add some real-life info for you. I'm in Canada.
I've got 72 adventure path books on my shelf. That's all the way from #1 to the most recent, no exceptions. Six years of monthly shipments.
In that time I've had one arrive literally three months after it was post-marked (hence entirely the postal service's fault). I've had a maximum of two with very light creasing at one corner. I think it's only one but I'll say two just in case.
The vast, vast majority of product that Paizo ships to me arrives unharmed and pristine. It shows up about 7 calendar days after they ship.
In seven or eight years or being a monthly subscriber to one Paizo product or another, I've had nothing but a stellar experience. Yes, I've had one or two cases where the wrong product was accidentally shipped and both times Paizo sent me the correct one immediately.
I haven't seen your photo and I won't address the damage you've got except to say that I've found Paizo beyond fair in my dealings with them. I mean it, their service has been far and away one of the two best experiences I've ever had with online purchases. (The other a small custom car-accessory manufacturer in Florida who is also a single-owner company who strives to succeed.)
Statistically you've hit an oddity. Or an abusive mail carrier. What you had happen to you isn't normal. Paizo can't and shouldn't plan for the rare psycho mail carrier. Not when the statistics show that their current packaging and efforts are almost always appropriate.
I hope your next package(s) show you how things usually work.
Oh, I'd also like to point out that Sara Marie's reply to you would've been about 6:30pm Paizo-time. I'm pretty sure they're a mostly 9-5 shop but you'll regularly see staffers posting almost 'round the clock. These people really, really do care.
I'm very sorry for the OP's poor experience, but I want to echo your sentiment here. While not as long-time a subscriber, I have had one major issue come up in my dealings with Paizo - I ordered a fairly large shipment (@$150 including some content from 3PP) that my Post Office recieved, left me a note for rather than leave it at my doorstep and then couldn't find it anywhere when I went to pick it up. It went on for a couple weeks with me hounding the PO and basically getting a shrug for my efforts. Finally I called Paizo and left a message and they got back to me promptly.
I explained that I understood that the failures of the PO weren't their responsibility, that they had done what was expected of them by literally getting it as far as my doorstep, but I was frustrated and didn't want to be out the cash and wasn't sure what my options were. They told me to wait two more weeks to see if the PO was able to find it, and if not they would replace everything that was lost free of charge. A week later, on the same day, I got an email from Paizo following up, telling me that they had my shipment staged to send out and I recieved a call from the PO saying the package had turned up. I called Paizo promptly and cancelled the replacement order.
They never had to send me any replacements out, but they were ready and willing to despite the failure not being their fault and it was that extra effort that has made me a Paizo subscriber/customer for life.
I've also never recieved anything from Paizo that wasn't in pristine condition.
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I'm in Canada. ...
In that time I've had one arrive literally three months after it was post-marked (hence entirely the postal service's fault).
Ugh, three months? Yikes. I live an hour's drive north of Vancouver, BC, meaning I can drive from here to Seattle in 4 hours. Routinely, however, my Paizo subscriptions take 2-3 weeks to get to me. It's nothing special about Paizo; all mail from the US takes 2-3 weeks, and mail from elsewhere in Canada generally takes at least 1 week (and sometimes more) to get here. Everybody here knows that mail is slow.
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As a note to the OP, if you have more than just a single AP volume in your monthly subscription (either through subscribing to more lines or through adding items to your subscription shipment), it will be more likely to ship in a larger, sturdier box than those cardboard envelopes. Not a great solution if you're only interested in the APs, but something to think about.
Also, where the Paizo warehouse's packaging really shines is the hardcovers. They have these awesome cardboard corner protectors that slip over all four corners of the book and get them there in pristine condition. Having ordered a CRB from Amazon and gotten that monster of a book in a torn-up padded envelope, with corners crushed and cover scratched through the bubble-wrap, I can say that's where the real difference in packaging is.
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Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager
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I've responded to the OP via email, but in case anyone else is curious how this works, even if language requesting a cancellation has a little bit of ambiguity, we generally go ahead and cancel anyway. Its really, really easy for us to restart and fix subscription that has been unintentionally cancelled, but a huge mess if we *don't* cancel and the customer gets shipped items they didn't want. And its almost always the case that they did intend it to be cancelled.
Joana - I like your idea... I wonder if my Wife will buy this... I HAVE to order more than one book a month so that I get better packaging :)
I know the packaging you referr to - this was what my friends always got their stuff in - and that is because they always buy multiple items... I will just have to do the same eh :-)
I have personally had multiple Paizo items with banged up covers unfortunately. It probably is running about 20% damaged for me. Items are very usable but I just wanted to throw in the not every customer is getting pristine stuff.
I have personally had multiple Paizo items with banged up covers unfortunately. It probably is running about 20% damaged for me. Items are very usable but I just wanted to throw in the not every customer is getting pristine stuff.
Could you throw in your location and any other details that might be useful?
I have personally had multiple Paizo items with banged up covers unfortunately. It probably is running about 20% damaged for me. Items are very usable but I just wanted to throw in the not every customer is getting pristine stuff.Could you throw in your location and any other details that might be useful?
Sure. Shipping is to Australia. The damaged items are almost always packed in those flat white envelopes. Generally the corners get banged up but sometimes there is spine damage. I can live with it but I don't love it.
It's not just Paizo of course. All my Frog God kickstarters have also suffered damage, again almost always on the corners.
I am not "bothered" by the damage all that much, but I would not hate the items to turn up undamaged!!
Very sorry to hear that you had a bad shipping experience. I get my monthly AP's in a cardboard mailer every month, and like the persons above, have yet to have one damaged in the long while I've been receiving them. It's a risk you take with overseas shipping, unfortunately.
However, on that note, while I was deployed overseas, I was receiving my monthly AP installments with zero damage as well. In fact, when I moved from my military installation back to the states, Paizo went out of their way to ensure I didn't miss a month with the address change.
Paizo normally does extremely well with hardcover books, as a matter of fact all the hardcovers I've gotten are boxed with corner protectors. I've never had a customer service issue, and I likely never will.
Again, I hate to see you soured on their products or mailing just because you received one bad shipment. Don't let the bad apple spoil the bushel.
I think when you get shipped outside of Metro Sydney (Australia) that is where the problems occur. And the white sleeves are not as good as a box as far as protecting the content - a stiff piece of cardboard slightly bigger than the book inserted in the package would probably help a lot - but that adds weight and cost to the shipping.
My friends who receive there shipments at their work addresses in the city have no problems. I am guessing anything that goes outside of metro Sydney goes through a distribution centre with very poor handling practices. My solution will be to order everything to my work address in the future.
One suggestion - if Paizo offered a shipping option which cost a few bucks more and upgraded the packaging (not the shipping method) I would pay this - just throwing it out there.
Either way - the fault lies with cr@ppy Australia Post as far as I can tell.. and they unfortunately largely have a monopoly here.
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Hi All,
Just wanted to share my experience here. Having spoken to friends who deal with Paizo I was very surprised to have a negative experience and hope it is an exception.
After being very impressed with pathfinder products I decided to support the publisher and subscribe to Adventure Path direct rather than buy from Amazon. From what frieds told me Paizo would cost a little more but they package their product better and their customer service was superior.
Anyway - my first subscription edition arrived. It was packaged in a cardboard sleeve - which I was surprised at given what my friends had said about better packaging than Amazon. The corners were crushed and the corner/spine of the book was damaged. Small damage - but as a collector of mint editions not what I had paid for.
My basic benchmark for asking for a replacement is 'would I buy this off the shelf in a retail store' - and the answer in this case is 'No'
So I sent a photo to Paizo customer support - and was essentially told I should expect some small damage and they would not replace this. Wow - Amazon would replace this no problem and have in the past.
I am very dissapointed. I just ordered a heap more from Paizo too at significant expense and its too late to cancel. This is a real shame and not what I expected from this company - and from what I read in the forums not what others have experienced?
Anyway - something to consider for anyone considering subscribing. Maybe living in Australia the postage system here is the cause?
I had a very similar experience, however, I did get my copy replaced, and also got a surprise when I opened my core rule book and it was signed by the entire staff. Now it is true this happened years ago, but I haven't had a damage problem since and I have been a subscriber for all but 7 months during a 5 year stretch.
Sorry you had this issue. I AM surprised paizo did this. I live in the US but that is the only difference for us, and the fact my experience ended much better. Sorry to hear this happened.
If there were a "wait to ship with a hardback or box set" option, rather than just "hold for monthly subscription" a whole lot of the troubles of the envelopes getting bunged would be non-issues. That said, even the envelopes show up very neatly for me since I'm not very far away and on a major transportation hub.
Heck, the envelopes show up very neatly for me, and I'm in Sweden.
The hardbacks tend to end up with somewhat banged corners once they get here, though - because of usage. ;)
The only major hiccup I've experienced since I started subscribing about 3-½ years ago was getting the wrong minis a while back. When I notified Paizo about it they sent the ones I'd wanted with the next subscription shipment and told me to keep the ones I'd gotten.