I'm playing a human arcane sorcerer. Paragon surge is not allowed, but the human favored class bonus is. Does anyone have any advice or recommendations regarding the following spell list? Anything I should take earlier or later, or swap out for something else?
.
Spells Known (CL 1st):
1st—enlarge person, sleep
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound
Spells Known (CL 2nd):
1st—enlarge person, sleep
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark
Spells Known (CL 3rd):
1st—enlarge person, grease, identify, sleep
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark
Spells Known (CL 4th):
2nd—glitterdust
1st—enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark, read magic
Spells Known (CL 5th):
2nd—flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility,
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark, read magic
Spells Known (CL 6th):
3rd-haste
2nd—flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 7th):
3rd—dispel magic, fly, haste
2nd—flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 8th):
4th—black tentacles,
3rd—dispel magic, fly, haste, stinking cloud
2nd—flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 9th):
4th—black tentacles, confusion, dimension door, enervation
3rd—dispel magic, fly, haste, stinking cloud, suggestion, slow
2nd—alter self, flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 10th):
5th—wall of force,
4th—black tentacles, confusion, dimension door, enervation, summon monster IV
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, fly, haste, stinking cloud, suggestion, slow
2nd—alter self, flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, mirror image, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 11th):
5th—cloudkill, overland flight, wall of force,
4th—ball lightning, black tentacles, charm monster, confusion, dimension door, enervation, summon monster IV
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, fly, haste, stinking cloud, suggestion, slow
2nd—alter self, flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, mirror image, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Spells Known (CL 12th):
6th-tar pool
5th—cloudkill, overland flight, telekinesis, wall of force,
4th—ball lightning, black tentacles, charm monster, confusion, dimension door, enervation, summon monster IV
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, fly, haste, stinking cloud, suggestion, slow
2nd—alter self, flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, mirror image, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Enlarge depends on your party. I am not a fan of sleep since it is a full round casting, I would take colorspray.
Grease is awesome, i do not like identify.
I am not a fan of your spell selection as a whole.
I think you are doing the favored class wrong.
Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.
Spells Known (CL 12th):
6th-tar pool
5th—cloudkill, overland flight, telekinesis, wall of force,
4th—ball lightning, black tentacles, charm monster, confusion, dimension door, enervation, summon monster IV
3rd—dispel magic, fireball, fly, haste, stinking cloud, suggestion, slow
2nd—alter self, flaming sphere, glitterdust, invisibility, mirror image, pyrotechnics, resist energy, web
1st—charm person, enlarge person, grease, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image
0—acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, spark, prestidigitation, read magic
Skipping to the end.
0.) Message is good. You should have it.
1.) Identify is lousy. Take Protection from Evil - it's really good.
2.) Alter Self, Flaming Sphere, Pyrotechnics are sub-par second level chocies. Suggest: Create Pit, Gust of Wind, Scorching Ray, Rope Trick, Spider Climb, Levitate
3.) Good choices here, except that Dispel Magic is a trap spell in Pathfinder. You need to not have it on your list by level 10, because your chances of actually dispelling anything with it go to nothing. It's barely worth it early. I wouldn't take it at all. Protection from Energy, Communal Resist Energy, Aqueous Orb, Wind Wall are good picks.
4.) Good picks here
5.) You need Teleport if nobody else in the party has it or some equivalent. Overland Flight and Cloudkill are expendable, in your list.
6.) You already have like 500 AOE save or screwed spells. We get it, you read the guides. =P Having Tar Pool is a bit redundant. Take some utility or single target damage (disintegrate)-Cross
Identify and dispel magic are bloodline spells...
Also, dispel magic no longer has a caster level cap.
Arcane bloodline, of course! :)
You should (parenthesize) your bloodline spells so they know you have no choice on those.
No bloodline spell at 12? ouch. And you don't get a feat at that level, so you can't take extra spell. Double ouch.
For the record, Identify, Invisibility, Dispel Magic, Dimension Door, and Overland Flight are bloodline spells.
he also gets an Extra Arcana at 9th.
At levels 4-12, he can use his human favored class to pick an extra Spell Known. This will work out to 2 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 4th and 1 5th level spell, if he goes for max level.
His final spell tally should be:
base: 9 cantrips, +5/5/4/3/2/1
With Favored Class and Extra Arcana: 7/7/6/6/3/1 Spells Known.
All of which he has done accurately. Alas for one more level!
Recommendations for Spellpages or whatever they are called might be helpful.
Also, Versatile Spellcasting is a GREAT feat for sorcs. Gets you the flexibility of a mage without the dependency of individual spells.
==Aelryinth
Ohh thats why you have more spells. I am dumb.
I think dispel is solid, not greta but solid for a freeby it is good.
I would actually suggest the OP take the Sage wildblooded class, and use Int for his main stat instead of Cha.
It would dovetail nicely with his human FC bonus learning additional spells, because the additional Int would go right into skill points. And at low levels, the Hand of the Mage ability is great for tossing alchemical items! Who needs magic missile when you can use alchemist's firebombs?
=========
Wow, did I muck this up.
No, don't use the sage unless you really like the skill points. Losing your arcana for efficient metamagic might be an okay swap, but losing the arcane bond? Nah.
And their hand of the apprentice has been changed to a force ray of damage. Hrm. Ah well.
==Aelryinth
Also, Versatile Spellcasting is a GREAT feat for sorcs. Gets you the flexibility of a mage without the dependency of individual spells.
==Aelryinth
What feat is this? I can't seem to find it on either the PRD or the unofficial site.
I think it was a 3.5 feat from complete mage that allowed spontaneous metamagic without casting time adjustments.
Color Spray may be worth a trade for Sleep, yeah - Sleep's a one-round casting time, while color spray is a standard action. Color Spray's less subtle and has a chance of hitting allies, though.
What feat is this? I can't seem to find it on either the PRD or the unofficial site.
Also, Versatile Spellcasting is a GREAT feat for sorcs. Gets you the flexibility of a mage without the dependency of individual spells.
==Aelryinth
I probably mucked up the name. It's in the new pfs rules. let me look it up.
==Aelryinth
Yep, mucked up the name.
Versatile Spontaneity
You made a good name for yourself in the Pathfinder Society in part because you knew how to prepare for the challenges before you, even if your natural magical abilities lend themselves less to preparation and more to spontaneity.
Prerequisites: Int 13 or Wis 13 (see Special), ability to spontaneously cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: When you regain spell slots at the start of the day, you may opt to prepare one spell you don’t know in place of a daily spell slot 1 level higher than the prepared spell’s level. To do so, you must have access to the selected spell on a scroll or in a spellbook, and the spell must be on your spell list (even if it is not one of your spells known). This process takes 10 minutes per spell level of the selected spell. You can cast the selected spell a single time, expending the spell slot as though it were a known spell being cast by you. Preparing a spell in this manner expends a scroll but not a spellbook. A spell prepared in this way is considered its actual level rather than the level of the spell slot expended. You can apply metamagic feats to the spell as normal, as long as the spell’s actual level plus the increases from metamagic feats is 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For example, a 12th-level sorcerer with this feat, a scroll of fireball, and the Empower Spell metamagic feat could prepare an empowered fireball spell in her 6th-level spell slot.
Special: If you spontaneously cast arcane spells, you must have an Intelligence score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you spontaneously cast divine spells, you must have a Wisdom score of at least 13 to take this feat. If you have both arcane and divine spellcasting classes, you can use this feat to prepare a spell using a given class’s spell slot as long as you meet the associated ability score prerequisite.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Pathfinder Society Primer is set for a July release, so preorder your copy today to ensure that you can start using the great character options within at the start of Pathfinder Society Organized Play’s Year of the Demon, which launches at Gen Con Indy on August 15.
==Aelryinth
The fact that Versatile Spontaneity consumes the scroll basically means that you get to use your own caster level and such when you use the scroll instead of the one the scroll is made with.
Since you are still using up the scroll and using up the spell slot I don't consider this to be much better than actually just buying a scroll and using it normally.
Instead I would consider the Mnemonic Vestment. Once per day it allows you to use a spell slot of your own to use a spell from a scroll as if you are casting it, and the scroll is not consumed.
Way better than the feat and only costs 5,000 gp.
Why not both?
I like pyrotechnics myself. It's easy enough to set up conditions to use it and it has a lot of different uses. The smoke cloud makes a nice debuff for example while having the drop on an enemy with a touch or something and potentially blinding their whole squad with your party back around a corner to prevent them from being blinded can be very useful.
Not a fan of flaming sphere or ball lightning.
Rather than resist energy I like communal resist energy. You'll find yourself more likely to use it if it's going to help the entire party with one spell instead of needing multiple castings.
At levels 4-12, he can use his human favored class to pick an extra Spell Known.
Actually he can do this at levels 1-3 as well - he just gets cantrips. But cantrips can be good.
Why not both?
I would have to say that because sorcerers need a lot of metamagic feats to be really effective, that makes feats expensive for sorcerers. If you want to use a scroll to cast a spell two times a day, just get two Mnemonic Vestments and change shirts. In the end it will be a lot cheaper than burning through scrolls that way.
I've actually never ran into a huge need for metamagic on my sorcerer's before. Yeah some is nice, but a lot of said feats? Not so much.
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations regarding the following spell list?
First of all you should look at the sorcerer guides. There's some good stuff there.
OK let's have a look at those spells.
For cantrips, maybe you decided that you can just use dancing lights as a light source. And that's true, but the duration of dancing lights is really short and you will find that you have to cast it over and over again. So if you are using the dancing lights spell for illumination during combat then you will find you have to recast it periodically. Light is a lot more reliable for that purpose.
Prestidigitation is a great cantrip - it can do a wide variety of things, and it has a really long duration, so you can cast it way in advance and have it running when you need it.
Read Magic is also pretty important especially if you don't have a wizard in your party. I know you get it eventually but I would get it sooner.
Be advised that ghost sound has been FAQ'ed so that you cannot create intelligent speech with it. If you want to use it for communication get message instead.
For level 1 spells, I agree with the other posters that color spray is generally much better than sleep, and it will be useful for longer. However at a certain level you want to get rid of either of them and swap them for something more generally useful, probably by 6th level.
Enlarge Person is good if you have a fighter or barbarian in your party who likes to be enlarged. Cast it on him and then stand behind him shooting your crossbow or casting acid splash. If you are playing PFS you can probably find somebody to cast it on. But in a home game check with the other party members; being enlarged also draws fire and not everyone may want it; obviously don't cast it on yourself.
You might want to consider vanish.
For level 2, glitterdust is definitely a good choice.
Flaming sphere is not that great, though it can be fun in conjunction with create pit as you can park the flaming sphere there, but you need create pit for that. Overall I agree with most other posters that it's not a great choice.
Levitate or Spider Climb might be a good choice of a spell to get at level 4 because you don't have access to fly yet. It can come in very handy, though once you have fly you could trade your levitate out for something else.
For level 3, most of your picks are pretty solid. I might get slow before stinking cloud, but that's just me. They're both good debuffs.
Level 4, I wouldn't really bother with ball lightning, unless you are using create pit, because like flaming sphere you can park the ball lightning there. If you want a blasting spell just cast fireball again, possibly with a +1 metamagic on it.
Greater invisibility might be worth a look if you plan on using offensive spells.
Level 5, I notice you don't have teleport on your list. If it's for PFS you could probably skip it but it's handy to have. Level 5 is actually a level where there's a lot of good ones and it's hard to choose. Dominate Person, baleful polymorph, and icy prison are all great one-target SoD spells. I personally like wall of stone because it is permanent, but if this is for PFS that's less important.
Overland flight is nice because it lasts all day, but it's a personal spell so you can't cast it on your friends. I think I would just walk most of the time and cast fly when it was needed.
Level 6, tar pool is very nice. It won't do a lot do damage but the entangled condition is very nice.
Why would I bother with scrolls when using and filling a spellbook is so much cheaper?
And I could grab any spell a wizard might have, if I need it, with the upside that on any given day I'm far more flexible in my other spell choices then a wizard would ever be.
The scroll thing is just in case you find one and you don't want to spend it. You can burn the scroll into your memory and carry it around without actually spending it.
BTW, this also allows you to 'preset' metamagic spells without doing full-round casting.
==Aelryinth
You might want to consider keeping flaming sphere and combining it with pyrotechnics.
Why would I bother with scrolls when using and filling a spellbook is so much cheaper?
And I could grab any spell a wizard might have, if I need it, with the upside that on any given day I'm far more flexible in my other spell choices then a wizard would ever be.
The scroll thing is just in case you find one and you don't want to spend it. You can burn the scroll into your memory and carry it around without actually spending it.
BTW, this also allows you to 'preset' metamagic spells without doing full-round casting.
==Aelryinth
You know, I hadn't considered the idea that a sorcerer would actually own a spellbook, but I can see no reason that this would not be allowed. So yes, buying spells from other wizards is significantly cheaper than buying scrolls, especially at higher levels. Or if you buy a scroll, you can copy it and then sell back the scroll for 1/2 price. Still better than buying a scroll.
And the "preset metamagic" issue is potentially nice. You will also be able to use a rod on it with no extra time. Though this is less of an issue for a sorcerer with the arcane bloodline, since he can duplicate that with his bloodline.
The +1 level slot use is still an issue though; having to use up a higher slot is a pain and you don't need to do that with the vestment.
With the page of spell knowledge it makes even more sense to me that a sorcerer would want to keep a book around.
In fact my false priest carries a 'spellbook' that is filled with divine scrolls and pages of spell knowledge.
I'm not sure I understand that, Abraham. You must have the spell on your spell list to use the feat, and divine scrolls are not on the sorc spell list?
Or are you referring to something else?
As for the +1 spell slot, yes, that can be annoying...but sorcs usually have spell slots to spare, and it effectively expands their spell usage without drastically limiting them, and especially gives them ability to 'prepare for a fight' with the 'right' spell, something that has always been the province of prepared casters.
having the perfect tool for the job when you've time to apply it is worth the +1 level, I think.
===Aelryinth
False Priest is an archetype that at level 9 allows you to expend a spell slot instead of using up a charge or scroll at the cost of a spell slot one higher than the normal spell level.
Ergo by having a 'book' of divine scrolls I effectively had all those spells added to my spells known list (albeit at the caster level and DC of the scroll).