| Hendelbolaf |
Just like characters, monsters die at negative constitution, except for some types like undead as HangarFlying said. I will usually lay down the miniature or put down a marker in case a character channels positive energy without selecting out the bleeding out bad guys or maybe a healer on the other side decides to help them.
Morgen
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Constructs are also destroyed at the 0 hit point mark. A good rule of thumb is if it doesn't properly count as "alive" it usually dies at zero. Everything else dies at negative constitution or something similar to that.
Some people just hand wave things or PC's make a note they finish off fallen foes.
| BillyGoat |
Also, constructs and undead have no Con, so negative Con for them is 0.
While you're functionally correct, it's humorous to point out that you aren't "RAW" correct.
Namely, the RAW specifically differentiates between having a Con of "0" and having "No Constitution Score".
The Undead and Construct types stipulate that they die at 0 HP. Without that stipulation, a death point would technically be "undefined". Think like a computer, the "Con" variable has no definition, so the computer would kick back an error, not treat it as a zero.
| Hrothgar Rannúlfr |
Wouldn't constitution-less undead die at negative charisma score?
Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
• No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
Snorter
|
Depends on the monster. Most die at -Con. Most undead are destroyed at 0 hp. Though, unless the monsters/NPCs are needed for questioning or something, I think most GMs/groups just kind of hand wave it to keep things simple and quick and consider them dead at 0 hp.
Which is a big thing to spring on a player, when they've just beaten up the guy they need for questioning.
Monsters and NPCs follow the same rules as PCs; it's one of the big selling points of D&D3 and variants, that split with previous editions.
Snorter's Law: "NPCs are just PCs whose player couldn't make it to the table."
| BillyGoat |
Wouldn't constitution-less undead die at negative charisma score?
Quote:Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
• No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
You would have a good argument for that interpretation, but there's no need to worry about it because, from the same list of traits, you get this:
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
I'ts the fifth bullet counting up from the bottom. Honestly, I'd have changed the layout to put it immediately after the one about no Constitution score. Or put the "destroyed at 0" line in the line on Constitution, instead of death-effects & massive damage. Either option makes more sense.
For any who are curious, the exact same trait is listed for Constructs, back on page 307, bottom of first column.
| Claxon |
Technically, yes most creatures don't die until they reach negative con. This is usually hand-waved in most groups because it requires extra work for the GM and is usually not relevant. However, if the enemy has the resources to heal or if they're healed by a group effect (Channel Energy) then they'd potentially be fighting fit again.
Mostly, do what you want.
| Kolokotroni |
By the rules, they die at negative con as people have pointed out, but in my group we just assume them dead. We really dont want to deal with the reality of either taking prisoners, executing large amounts of helpless enemies or having to leave enemies behind you to possibly be revived and attack you again. Its just easier to call them dead and move on.
| Chemlak |
In my group, I just flag them as dead at 0, unless the players tell me they're interested in keeping someone alive for questioning. (Note: this does not apply to important NPCs, who I will keep track of because I want to.)
| Heimdall666 |
Hmm, we have everything but PCs die at negative hps, including sadly NPCs, animals and pets. Will have to point this out to the GM. Is there RAW on NPCs anywhere for backup?
This would have been crucial when we rescued a prisoner (friendly NPC) who had one hit point, and our new cleric, another prisoner, failed their heal skill check and CPR'd them to death. I know skills don't critically fail typically, but the GM had it happen even though it screwed up his own storyline. It was funny to see the new player RolePlay his way out of murdering one of the PCs girlfriends by trying being a good samaritan.
| Chemlak |
It isn't written down anywhere, because the death and dying rules are the same for all characters (except Undead and Constructs). While the rules do refer to "your character", that is shorthand and applies to all creatures.
| Hrothgar Rannúlfr |
Hrothgar Rannúlfr wrote:Wouldn't constitution-less undead die at negative charisma score?
Quote:Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
• No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).You would have a good argument for that interpretation, but there's no need to worry about it because, from the same list of traits, you get this:
Bestiary, Creature Types, Undead, Traits; pg 310 wrote:Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.I'ts the fifth bullet counting up from the bottom. Honestly, I'd have changed the layout to put it immediately after the one about no Constitution score. Or put the "destroyed at 0" line in the line on Constitution, instead of death-effects & massive damage. Either option makes more sense.
For any who are curious, the exact same trait is listed for Constructs, back on page 307, bottom of first column.
Thank you.
| BillyGoat |
Hrothgar, you're welcome. As I said in my post, the creature type traits are sometimes poorly laid out. The "Destroyed at zero" rule really belongs with the "No Con Score" rule, or immediately following it.
{b]On the subject of tracking NPC Health[/b], we generally knock them (and monsters) down as "dead" at 0/-HP. If they are clearly dead, that is, the damage they just took was enough to kill them according to the correct rules, they'll have wounds to match.
If they aren't, I won't erase their current health until the party is looting, asks for conditions, or uses an AoE positive energy effect.
When one of the above happens, I'll perform one of three things:
1. Decide if their fate has a potentially useful dramatic consequence. This may include providing clues to the current adventure, if the group is stuck for ideas.
2. If #1 is true, I'll declare life/death via fiat.
3. If #1 is not true, and there aren't a lot of them to check, I'll retroactively make the appropriate number of stabilization checks, until stable or dead.
4. If #1 is not true, and there are a bunch of them, I'll make a d% check for each creature (with a gut-check chosen percentage). The percentage chance of survival decreases for each creature that succeeds.
edit
The exception to the above is for when the party loots & leaves without a care for the fallen. Then, I'll simply decide entirely based on what serves a good story purpose who survived & who died.
For this reason, my party usually employs a few coup de graces during the loot sequence. Also because there's a bounty on goblinoid heads...
Snorter
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On the subject of tracking NPC Health, we generally knock them (and monsters) down as "dead" at 0/-HP. If they are clearly dead, that is, the damage they just took was enough to kill them according to the correct rules, they'll have wounds to match.
If they aren't, I won't erase their current health until the party is looting, asks for conditions, or uses an AoE positive energy effect.
Yes, if someone just got taken down to -40hp, from a greataxe crit, the GM ought to describe their head leaving their neck, being 'cleft in twain', or somesuch.
It should be obvious that the PCs don't need to worry about accidentally including them in a positive channeling.
The other guy, who dropped from a 3hp shortsword stab? He's out of the fight, but maybe writhing about, coughing, clutching his wound.
The guy who took a 10hp mace to the helmet, he's down and not moving, hasn't made a noise for several rounds. Could be alive or dead. Probably need to check him before you leave?