So, I am in need of some advice here, for a gestalt Kingmaker game. I have been invited by the DM and asked to play a ranger, since the group needs one. My question is, what would be some good possibilities for the other half of the gestalt. Also, to note, for this game: no multi-classing or prestige classes allowed. So, that being said...what would you mix, and why (including archetypes)?
Also, what race would you choose?
Whats the abilty score generation? Gonna vouch for fighter. It's ridiculous amounts of feats. Pick a feat heavy combat style ( like archery) bypassing the sucky feat taxes, and spend you're fighter feats rounding out your combat abilities.
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I disagree with fighter. Very little stacks. All you get is more feats. BAB is the same, saves are worse, skills are crap. With gestalt you want something different. Rogue is popular with ranger for rounding out skills, more skills, evasion and sneak attack. I also like inquisitor for the judgement boost, spells variety, and wisdom synergy. Cleric is more faster heavy and less damage boosting abilities.I find paladin to pair well with ranger. Fills out the saves, you can boost charisma, let wisdom fall behind so you have the minimum to cast spells, and smite and charisma to saves helps a ton. Monk is interesting, but sadly zen archer doesn't stack very well with the ranger bonus feats.
Bad combos with ranger: wizard- yes it's Gish, but it's also MAD and your action economy will gutter. This is more of a personal opinion. Sorcerer I think is better because you can focus more solely on prebuff spells and bonuses like abyssal or Orc.
Magus- definitely the worst class I think to pair with ranger. MAD, any melee ranger can't do spell combat because it requires a single one handed weapon. Ranged spell strike on the mermidarch comes late.
25 point buy. 3 traits, one of which has to be campaign.
So it sounds like rogue, inquisitor, or paladin would be the big votes. Keep in mind, there is another odd thing: we get feats at every level.
Level 1, to start with.
Druid or cavalier(archetypes like Luring are especially nice). Sohei Monks can wear armor and retain Wisdom to Armor Class too.
Rogue, inquisitor, wizard, cleric.
Why exactly is a Ranger needed though or is that just the character theme that is needed? If it's just the theme I would say go Fighter for all your Fighty needs with Rogue for all the skills in the world and just model it as a "Ranger type."
Sohei can't actually. All it says is that they're proficient with light armor, it doesn't modify their monk AC bonus in any way sadly.
Unless it's been added recently, Sohei does not have the sentence saying they lose Wisdom to AC while wearing armor, and their Weapon & Armor Prof replaces the normal monk's, which does have that sentence. Thus, Sohei keep Wisdom to AC in armor.
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The AC bonus ability is separate from Weapon/Armor proficiencies. Since the Sohei does not modify it, its no armor rule still applies.
EDIT:
Armor and Shield Proficiency: Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
AC Bonus (Ex)
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Sohei can't actually. All it says is that they're proficient with light armor, it doesn't modify their monk AC bonus in any way sadly.Unless it's been added recently, Sohei does not have the sentence saying they lose Wisdom to AC while wearing armor, and their Weapon & Armor Prof replaces the normal monk's, which does have that sentence. Thus, Sohei keep Wisdom to AC in armor.
The actual ability "AC Bonus" says that a Monk in armor loses his Wisdom/leveling bonus to AC. Since the Sohei doesn't offer a replacement for this it would seem that the core Monk version of AC Bonus would still say no to it working with armor.
I would agree that this seems stupid, but then again Brawling enhancement can't be used on Bracers of Armor and the Wanderer archetype gets exotic weapon proficiency but not the ability to actually use the chosen weapon in a Flurry... if it's not intended to stack, it's par for the Monk course.
If you take the option for Ranger with the group bond instead of animal bond, you could take Summoner as second class and use the Eidolon as your animal companion.
Inquisitor is amazing for a ranged type.
You want the same stats, all good saves, potent attack and damage bonuses on top of your already good BAB and favored enemy. More spells from the damagey side of the clerics spell list rather than the utlity druid side. Against non favored enemies your still good, against them your crazy.
I would vote for Druid or a Wis-based Sorcerer(Empyreal?). I mean you already got a strong BaB and HP, now it's time to add some magcial abilities.
Still no answer on why a group would need a Ranger? I really can't figure this out.
Is it the need for an ourdoorsy woodsman guy? Because I would think Druid could fill that role, too. Is it a need for ranged damage? Because Rangers aren't the only good class for that.
I really can't give advice on the other half of a gestalt until I know what the goal of the character actually is.
Well, for pure damage goodness, I want to say barbarian. It certainly has a decent overlap with themes.
Most importantly: Rangers can make full strength focused TWF builds. Combine that with barbarians' strength and health boosts, and you have goodness. Pounce at level 10 would definitely make you even more deadly. Alternatively, you could just make a switch hitter focused on the archery style that simply rages when he goes into rage when enemies get close. I also like the idea of a natural weapons build, which would function a bit like the TWf build, but you could enchant your own natural weapons for the sheer to hit bonsuses.
Overall, barbarian provides pure power and survivability through rage and rage powers (which you can have more of with all your feats. Many rage powers are better than a feat), while rangers bring useful skills, spells, animal companions, bonuses to attack, and feats. There is a reason why both classes have archetypes that let you mix abilities from these classes.
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Kingmaker is a very outdoor orientated campaign. I would assume it is to make an easy introduction to the campaign, gives a good reason to be there and to make life easier for the party.
Personally I prefer to have them struggle though with the characters they choose but if it’s an already established game then the party could be looking for an outdoor type to fill in what they have discovered to be an issue with their current party. (they got lost in the wilderness)
I would also go Ranger/Druid. That would be a cool combination.
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From what I read, I'd go with The Barbarian if you want Switch Hit or straight Melee or Inquisitor if you want Ranged. Both those sounds pretty awesome.
If you're going to gestalt, unless you're doing the infamous Druid/Monk combo, the best advice is usually:
1) Mix a casting class with a full BAB class or Zen Archer
2) Mix a casting class with another casting class
3) Don't waste gestalt by combining two full BAB classes
4) Under no circumstances end up without at least 6th level spells.
Eh, while spells can be nice, I do not entirely think that it would make or break the deal. Many of the full BAB classes have various kinds of abilities that allow them to further boost up their bonuses to hit and damage. Having two sources that do not conflict can result in a lot of power as a raw damage dealer.
It also means that you do not have to worry about whether your class can use specific kinds of armor with spells. You can go with a heavier defense.
Not everyone has to be slinging spells around. There is only so much action economy, and not everyone likes to play using the little tricks that break it. Sometimes the game just needs someone who can wail on an opponent. Anyway, there should be enough characters with spells around the party to make up for any lack of spells and then some.
Eh, while spells can be nice, I do not entirely think that it would make or break the deal.
If we're talking about optimizing with no set choices, more spells > some spells > no spells.
In a normal game, yes, someone needs to just wail on the bad guys. In a gestalt game, everyone can because just about everyone will have d10 or better HD and full BAB.
There's no way any attack boosting feature on any class can top the attack boosting power you can get from self-buffing with a full spell list.
Keep in mind I'm not saying you can't have fun without spells--personally, I prefer no spells, for example. I'm just saying it's an objectively stronger choice.
How about zen archer?
A Zen Archer/Cleric, Zen Archer/Druid, or Zen Archer/Empyreal Sorcerer would be phenomenal.
Travel domain is awesome. +10 speed ftw and if you are a charger, getting to ignore difficult terrain is a lot more useful than I expected
Well, if you are a charger, than the best option might be the dervish dancer bard. It gets a +10 boost of speed at the beginning, but it increases as it levels up until you get +30 at 19th level. Being able to boost your attacks with inspire courage might not be that bad either. A bit troublesome that this might make you a bit more MAD though (but you have 25 point buy. Not that much of a problem).
Jokingly, you could also get a pseudo pounce at level 12, but you would have to circle around your opponent a few times just to do a full attack (getting AoO between teach attack)