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Many are the stories of using the purify food and drink spell on spoiled food, or even corpses, in order to provide clean, life sustaining nourishment for adventurers (and even capitalists).
But what about predigested waste? My PCs had to endure a siege in my game yesterday with little to no supplies...but they did have a low level NPC cleric on hand, so the question arose.
In short, would this actually work to allow for the besieged to greatly extend their meager supplies?
I have no basis for this, but I would rule that urine could be purified into water (since water is there and you are seperating things out). On the other hand solid waste is missing nutrients it needs so I wouldn't allow it.
On the other hand, maybe it would be just killing off bad bacteria so there isn't a chance of getting disease from it but it would still provide some meager nutritional value... not fun, but maybe it would work.
Except the spell isn't just removing the bad bacteria and separating things out, it's TRANSFORMING it to something wholesome.
Hence why is is a magic transmutation spell.
My players and I are having difficulty finding out why this spell wouldn't turn a turd that used to be an apple back into an apple in the same way it would turn a rotten apple into a fresh apple.
I suspect that it would turn it more like into a sort of apple sauce that would taste terrible. Good thing there is prestidigitation to fix that.
Do you thing that purify food and drink might make any sort of organic material eatable such as wood or bugs?
Good? No. Edible? Absolutely.
Prestidigitation can change taste can't it?
Anyways, I'd say it would work but it wouldn't last for too long. You'd lose so much mass every time and your group would be pretty creeped out by it wouldn't they?
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It's war and when needs must...
You will eat your shit and you will like it!
Also there are a lot of extra mass constantly being introduced into the system in the form of flys and other bugs that would try and eat it if you don't.
However I would expect this to cause a lot of moral problems not matter how you Prestidigitation it.
I wonder how high a bluff/disguise check it would take to convince the troops it isn't poop.
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I can't believe this is a question but... here goes...
I'd say it wouldn't work on poop. It's not even food anymore. The point of purify food and drink is to change food that has gone bad or been poisoned. Poop isn't spoiled food, nor is it poisoned food. It's waste that was once food, but has been processed enough where the nutrients are all gone and it doesn't have any inkling on what it could have been. And honestly, turning poop into food is too strong for an orison. So no, poop is poop, not food and is not a valid target.
The Paizo Forums: Where people will min/max so hard, they will literally eat shit to break an orison.
For the purpose of this discussion your body is just a chemical furnace with stringent input requirements.
You obtain energy by breaking high yield chemical bonds and forming low yield bonds. Oxidation-reduction is the best example, as you turn hydrocarbons and oxygen into water and carbon dioxide.
The purify food and drink powered by the gods turns the water and carbon back into hydrocarbons and oxygen.
You could do the same thing chemically, but you can see why the idea never caught on.
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I'm sorry, but no. Poop is no longer food. It's not even just bacteria that has broken the food down, it's also enzymes and hydrochloric acid and bile and just... no. It's not food anymore. It'd not a valid target for an orison. It may still be an organic substance, but it's not food anymore. Sorry, but if I allowed this, I'd be allowing people to cast this on fertilizer and top soil to turn it back to whatever food it was before hand. And that is honestly beyond the scope of a level 0 spell.
Does purify food and water remove contaminants or turn it into nutritious/good food/water?
There are historic examples of people eating their poop when time were hard James town being a good example.
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This screams
MORALE PENALTIES!
I had a fellow player for one game who refused to memorize create water in a campaign where the DM kept track of food/water while we had to travel long and far from civilization. He insisted we use his purify on our own piss. I never found such excitment at the sight if civilization before or since. The player quickly quite the campaign and nobody missed him.
Just because you can eat it doesn't make it food. People can eat dirt and drink seawater, but that doesn't make it food.
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I agree with Odraude. Poop isn't food.
If you wouldn't used the adjectives spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous or contaminated to describe what you are trying to purify it doesn't work. An apple that is rotten is described as a rotten apple, an apple that has gone through your digestive system is called poop and is beyond the the powers of an orison.
I agree with Odraude. Poop isn't food.
If you wouldn't used the adjectives spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous or contaminated to describe what you are trying to purify it doesn't work. An apple that is rotten is described as a rotten apple, an apple that has gone through your digestive system is called poop and is beyond the the powers of an orison.
Thank you gods! Someone with sense!
And seriously, if they need food that badly, have someone roll Survival to get food. It's more straight-forward and won't have your DM question your odd coprophagic fetishes ;)
And why not?
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Because it's not food anymore. The point of Purify Food and Drink is to take food that still resembles food and remove anything that makes it rotten, diseased, or poisoned. Poop may be organic but it doesn't make it food. It doesn't even resemble food anymore, unless you're a dung beetle. It's just organic material now. So sorry. If you want to have a poop feast, it'll take more than an orison to do that.
Define food?
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Define food?
Really? Are we really going there? Is eating shit to twist a 0 level spell beyond its scope so important that we have to get into the semantics of what food is? Given these forums, I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just disappointed and honestly glad my players aren't like this.
I thought the "you can't sneak attack while using Stealth" people were nuts. But good to see that once you hit rock bottom, the forums show you something even lower.
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So sorry. If you want to have a poop feast, it'll take more than an orison to do that.I think this would be towards the top of my list of sentences I never expected to read on the boards.
Is anyone else trying really hard not to hit that FAQ button?
I'm happy to be on that list ;)
Also, this thread reminds me of this comic here.
Uhhhhh I know you love thinking your logic makes all the senses but given that a 0th level spell can create water out of thin air I'm inclined to believe it can turn poop into food.Define food?Really? Are we really going there? Is eating s+#@ to twist a 0 level spell beyond its scope so important that we have to get into the semantics of what food is? Given these forums, I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just disappointed and honestly glad my players aren't like this.
I thought the "you can't sneak attack while using Stealth" people were nuts. But good to see that once you hit rock bottom, the forums show you something even lower.
I do, in fact, love to think that, thank you. Although with threads like this, it's not hard to feel like the only person with common sense ;).
And it's all about what the spell is intended to do. Create water is intended to make water out of thin air. You can't use it to, say, create orange juice out of thin air, even if orange juice has water in it. Or, say, seltzer water. No, the intention is to create water. So for Purify Food and Drink, the intention is to take food that has been poisoned (ala Snow White), diseased (like fire blight), spoiled, rotten, or contaminated. Fecal matter is neither of those things. It's processed organic material that nowhere near resembles what it originally looked like in either looks or make-up. It isn't spoiled by expiration or by disease (bacteria =/ disease), and it's not contaminated. It's been completely transformed into something not food. In fact, I'd say that by definition, poop itself IS the contaminant. So I feel that turning fecal matter and compost into food is not the intention for this spell. In fact, I'd hazard to say that if food was rotten to the point of just being topsoil and fertilizer, you couldn't do it. It is beyond the intention of this spell, much like making orange juice from Create Water is beyond the intention of this spell. If the party really wants food that badly, roll Survival. Now, if it was a bucket of water with poop in it, then you could cast the spell to remove the poop and make it fresh drinking water.
Sorry if I come across as a jerk, but it's topics like these that have me question what kind of hobby I've gotten myself into.
Define food?
I would say that "food" is anything that your race can eat and gain sustience from. A canrivorous race casting it can only purify meat. A vegitarian race can only purify plant matter.
But I'd also like to point out that nowhere does it specify that it makes the target healthy. Even if it were to purify waste products, it wouldn't provide any nutiriounal value to them - it would just prevent you from getting sick while eating it. So you would starve to death with full stomachs.
Yar.
Just a random little FYI: rabbits have been known to eat their own poop, but only if it is mostly greenish in color, as that means that there are still undigested nutrients within it.
*blinks slowly*
EDIT: after a very brief search, apparently the colon produces a number of nutrients and vitamins that some animals are unable to absorb through their colon walls, and will often eat their "cecotropes", a type of poop that is full of these nutrients. Also, some animals can only absorb so much via a single pass through of their digestive system, and will often eat it again (aka, their poop) in order to get a second chance to get all the good stuff out of it. Soft caecal pellets of partially digested food are excreted and generally consumed immediately. They also produce normal droppings, which are not eaten.
The more you know!
~P
I do, in fact, love to think that, thank you. Although with threads like this, it's not hard to feel like the only person with common sense ;).
And it's all about what the spell is intended to do. Create water is intended to make water out of thin air. You can't use it to, say, create orange juice out of thin air, even if orange juice has water in it. Or, say, seltzer water. No, the intention is to create water. So for Purify Food and Drink, the intention is to take food that has been poisoned (ala Snow White), diseased (like fire blight), spoiled, rotten, or contaminated. Fecal matter is neither of those things. It's processed organic material that nowhere near resembles what it originally looked like in either looks or make-up. It isn't spoiled by expiration or by disease (bacteria =/ disease), and it's not contaminated. It's been completely transformed into something not food. In fact, I'd say that by definition, poop itself IS the contaminant. So I feel that turning fecal matter and compost into food is not the intention for this spell. In fact, I'd hazard to say that if food was rotten to the point of just being topsoil and fertilizer, you couldn't do it. It is beyond the intention of this spell, much like making orange juice from Create Water is beyond the intention of this spell. If...
Except you're quite wrong.
Yes bacteria =/= disease however many bacteria are disease causing, by your logic the spell wouldn't remove disease causing bacteria just the disease itself.
Fecal matter itself isn't harmful to the human considering it a contaminant is just incorrect there are things within fecal matter which are harmful one could say it is contaminated by those things. Nor is it completely devoid of nutritional value after all the human body is not a perfect system.
As for poop not looking like food pray tell does that fake soymeat look anything like soy beans? No of course not and yet I think had we been talking about rotting ground soymeat in a very late state...
I can't agree with that, I'm sorry. By the Google definition, you'd have to open up this spell to other abuses. Like, if this removes diseases from anything considered food, then it can remove diseases from people because hey, humans are probably food to some creature in the D&D ecosystem. And sorry, but this just reeks of being beyond the intention of Purify Food and Drink. If you want to allow your players to eat shit, that's fine. I'll run it my way and give a concerned look to the player that asked me this question.
Well, I'd say have fun eating poop. No where does the spell say it turns into something else(if I purify apple sauce, it's still apple sauce). So have fun eating poop. I mean, eventually you're gonna run out of poop because your body will absorb it all, but you could still eat it....it just won't be very tasty.
That's a fair point CrystalSpellblade. Still, I imagine rotten applesauce has a distinct taste difference then purified applesauce. I can't help but think the same would be true of waste.
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Also, this thread reminds me of this comic here.
The orc and elf's faces are reaction image-worthy.
Yar.
Just a random little FYI: rabbits have been known to eat their own poop, but only if it is mostly greenish in color, as that means that there are still undigested nutrients within it.
Lovely. Now I get to be as uncomfortable about Trix as I am about Cocoa Puffs.
Define food?Really? Are we really going there? Is eating s~!% to twist a 0 level spell beyond its scope so important that we have to get into the semantics of what food is? Given these forums, I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just disappointed and honestly glad my players aren't like this.
I thought the "you can't sneak attack while using Stealth" people were nuts. But good to see that once you hit rock bottom, the forums show you something even lower.
Two words and you rant and curse. You didn't define food at all either. Your also being a little too insulting when you infer someone's hit rock button or worse than other people. Stop that, its not helpful.
Define food?I would say that "food" is anything that your race can eat and gain sustience from. A canrivorous race casting it can only purify meat. A vegitarian race can only purify plant matter.
But I'd also like to point out that nowhere does it specify that it makes the target healthy. Even if it were to purify waste products, it wouldn't provide any nutiriounal value to them - it would just prevent you from getting sick while eating it. So you would starve to death with full stomachs.
That's sort of what I thought. That said, humans can eat it, but its not nearly healthy. It would be pure of all that ails you, but I'm not sure if that would give it any nutrients. You'd lose mass over time if you depended on it. That's why I asked earlier if it made food actually good for you or if it removed contaminants. It happens to be a transmutation spell, but I could see it going either way.
That's a fair point CrystalSpellblade. Still, I imagine rotten applesauce has a distinct taste difference then purified applesauce. I can't help but think the same would be true of waste.
That's entirely possible. I for one won't be trying it out, but purified waste could very well have a different taste than unpurified waste. =P
Define food?Really? Are we really going there? Is eating s~!% to twist a 0 level spell beyond its scope so important that we have to get into the semantics of what food is? Given these forums, I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just disappointed and honestly glad my players aren't like this.
I thought the "you can't sneak attack while using Stealth" people were nuts. But good to see that once you hit rock bottom, the forums show you something even lower.
Two words and you rant and curse. You didn't define food at all either. Your also being a little too insulting when you infer someone's hit rock button or worse than other people. Stop that, its not helpful.
That's sort of what I thought. That said, humans can eat it, but its not nearly healthy. It would be pure of all that ails you, but I'm not sure if that would give it any nutrients. You'd lose mass over time if you depended on it. That's why I asked earlier if it made food actually good for you or if it removed contaminants. It happens to be a transmutation spell, but I could see it going either way.Define food?I would say that "food" is anything that your race can eat and gain sustience from. A canrivorous race casting it can only purify meat. A vegitarian race can only purify plant matter.
But I'd also like to point out that nowhere does it specify that it makes the target healthy. Even if it were to purify waste products, it wouldn't provide any nutiriounal value to them - it would just prevent you from getting sick while eating it. So you would starve to death with full stomachs.
You're actually right and I do apologize. It's just sometimes frustrating, seeing these kinds of threads that try to use semantics to just step all over RAI. And I see them all the time. So, I do apologize and I promise to chill out a bit more.
So you are presuming to know the rules as intended now too?
Yar.
Lovely. Now I get to be as uncomfortable about Trix as I am about Cocoa Puffs.
^_^
~P
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So you are presuming to know the rules as intended now too?
Presumably. If I didn't, I wouldn't be a GM ;)
Adventures and the power gamers that control them are a hardy lot.
That's a fair point CrystalSpellblade. Still, I imagine rotten applesauce has a distinct taste difference then purified applesauce. I can't help but think the same would be true of waste.That's entirely possible. I for one won't be trying it out, but purified waste could very well have a different taste than unpurified waste. =P
"Rat might taste like punkin pie, but I'll never know, because I won't eat the dirty..."
Lol
It occurs to me that almost rotting of food is caused by bacteria or fungi eating the food and and letting out waste. So rotten food is in a sense poop.
Good? No. Edible? Absolutely.
And of little to no nutritional value. Purify isn't Make Nutritious. They would likely still die of starvation in approximately the same amount of time.
This spell makes spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated food and water pure and suitable for eating and drinking.
That's it.
Couldn't the same be said of rotten food, Buri?
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Bwahahahaha! This thread reads like someone talking to their 3 year old. "No, poop isn't food..." lol