Hey guys,
I want to do something a little different for my group this coming session. What I had planned was maybe something like a dream sequence, with fights that are absurd, like what you might have in a nightmare or something. I would like for combat to play out in a manner that is different than just "roll to hit. roll damage. roll grapple." that kind of thing.
I was thinking maybe a heavily modified chase type sequence, where maybe knowledge checks, bluff, diplomacy, all the kind of "passive" abilities that are overlooked would get used to deal damage, or escape, or just simply to overcome whatever challenge it is that they must(The party is intellect heavy and I would like to play to their strengths).
Has anyone tried this type of thing before, and if so, how did you work it? Perhaps some resources that I could buy to get some ideas?
Thanks,
We had a dream sequence in an entirely different game and the GM didn't give us any XP for the session. We were rather mad as you might expect.
:P maybe to clarify a bit, this won't be a dream sequence where we sit there and nothing gets done. I'm effectively pulling their minds instead of their bodies into some adventuring. They'll be getting exp based on what they do, as per a normal game.
I can't say I've ever tried that myself, but I like the idea. I guess the thing to make sure of is that, even though you want it to be somewhat absurd and surreal, there is some kind of internal logic to it. Think about why a specific skill would have a specific effect, and make sure that it stays consistent throughout the scene, unless there's a good reason for it to change.
Unfortunately I can't recall having seen anything like this in any particular products, especially not those released for Pathfinder. The closest thing I can think of is maybe some of the Astral or Matrix combat from Shadowrun, in that you can set up some weird scenarios there, but I don't know that it would fit with what you're after.
Sorry I can't be of more assistance with it, but if you've got any ideas you want to bounce around, I'd love to read over them and see if I can come up with anything. That said though, my internet access here is somewhat sporadic at the moment. I'm likely to be offline for the whole weekend and maybe a little longer than that.
For combat I was thinking of pitting opposing schools of knowledge against each other and then having the players RP the situation out. For example, I would throw a minor abomination at the players, and they would have to properly identify the beast and then roll checks against it. Perhaps by using memories of peace (a druid) they could banish it. Rolling would be done by these knowledge type checks, and there would be a couple of arbitrary HP stand in type of things, kind of like a sanity meter. For a boss, each would have to pool certain kinds of ideas (their bluff, for instance, might alter reality around them) and roll against the BBEG's will saves.
ps, they're currently being pulled at absurd speeds (hundreds of billions of MPH, thus necessitating the out of reality thing) to the end of reality.
I like the way you're headed with that. My one concern would be to make sure that none of the party are going to be marginalised by this style of play. From what you have said about the party being intellect heavy though, that doesn't seem like it would be too much of an issue.
I'm intrigued by what situation the party have got themselves into that they're somehow being pulled at ridiculous speeds to the very end of reality itself...
I'm currently planning something similar for my home game and I like where you're headed with this. The key is to be able to explain to the party why these skills are working like they are.
So, in the case of the minor aberrant, a PC makes a Knowledge(Arcana) check to recall where the most vulnerable part of the aberrant is. If successful, you then say "You recall that this particular beastie has a particular sensitive cluster of nerves at the base of its spin, you then sprint around it almost as if you were flying, then as you loose your arrow it flies true, straight into the nerve cluster. The creature balls over in obvious pain."
For the boss, a Bluff check, if successful might allow them to shape the landscape, or call forth a potent weapon, or make a spell more powerful (cast at a higher caster level, extra damage, etc.). Again, you emphasize to the party that since they are in a dream, the normal laws of physics don't apply.
I would probably still have them make attack rolls, but the assorted Knowledge, Bluff, etc., checks can be used to make those attacks overwhelming (effectively turning minor creatures into 1 HP wonders).
What's really cool, potential wise, about this scenario is that it really does give you license to do whatever you want. After all, anything can happen in a dream. In the case of my game, I'm having the party go to the Dream Plane where they'll be inhabiting the nightmare of a slumbering god. Which of course begs the question: "What would a god's nightmare encompass?" Muahhaahah!
In any event, I really like where you are going with this and as Tinkergoth said, keep us informed of specific ideas and we can help you out!
For a truly offbeat mindscape, replace their physical stats in the dreamworld with their mental ones.
Str is represented by the character's Int
Dex is represented by the character's Wis
Con is represented by the character's Cha
This results in some role-swapping from the party standard, as the wizard suddenly becomes the mighty warrior, the bard has the most hit points, the cleric is tumbling and sneak-attacking everything, etc. With the right group attitude, it can be a fun change of pace.
I have done this as a GM before. What I did was had each night a different "dream" where they had to accomplish different tasks. They didnt know if they were real or not, but were thrown into each scenario. Each scenario had, like a dream might, a common element that was the solution to the end puzzle, in this case a gold crown.
For example, the first dream threw them directly into a war. A horde of orcs and goblins led by undead besieged a tower nearby, and the players had to reach the tower before the banner at the top was taken by the horde. This meant being mobbed by a horde that tried to pull them down, then fight to the top, then take the bnnner themselves and defend it. The pennon had a crown as its sigil, and when they awoke, one of the pcs was wrapped up in a smoky war-torn banner with a crown on it, as a blanket, also a magic item. The whole dream element lets you convey things like "you feel drawn to the banner as a symbol of hope" or otherwise "nose-leading 101". People who chose to not play into the dream woke up, lost sleep, were handicapped the next day.
This continued to the end dream which involved the party discovering a sleeping tarrasque with the crown on its nose horn, ala Dont Wake Baby. It worked out ok, but some players find the dream sequence frustrating for some reason, due I think to lack of imagination on their part. I played the actual mechanics out as more a Quentin Tarrintino movie, lots of gore and endless bullets than actually limiting their dream effectiveness. I did one dream per player, and each got a semi-custom magic item out of the dreams.
No loves the sloth demon.
Anyways, so long as they get xp and other forms of progress out of it and it doesn't take forever it might go over well. Usually what gets me about dream sequences is how I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything and that the entire time was a waste. No XP in a game with XP is rather painful. It can still be a load of fun, just be sure to give them something for it.
Funky mechanics are hit and miss depending on the group. Think about how your group will react before you use any. I've had to deal with frustration with illusions and dreams more often than fun. Gets a little old or just doesn't work because your character was built in a way it only works against you.
Depending on the direction you want to go with this, I would look into American McGee's Alice. It's an older PC game that takes a dark twist on the Alice in Wonderland story in which Wonderland is a Dream World and Alice, locked in a coma in an Asylum is unable to escape. Losing all your HP doesn't mean death... but a descent into insanity.
If all the PCs have a small psychic link, they could share the dream... the goal is to escape. Maybe each has a fear they must overcome in the form of boss battles or puzzles. Through out the dream they gain knowledge and experiance on how to control the dreams, maybe even entering the mind of the one that put them in this state as and end game event. They escape the dream only to forever lock the Antagonist in a false reality.
The way our DM did this was by taking your character sheet and passing it to the right and having us do the adventure with an unfamiliar character.
I like Calybos' idea even better and am not ashamed to say I will be "Borrowing" that one
Thanks for all the input guys, I've gotten some really good ideas about how to run it.
First off, I was thinking of having combat play out like Calybros and Gargs mentioned, a little half and half, so that there are real stats that the players can look at other than "you deal a trillion points of damage. everything dies. yay." But I also like the idea of damage being kind of a random thing, where maybe adding an the Int mod plus, perhaps, knowledge of nature (for a nightmare dire bear, or something along those lines) would equal the attack roll. Then from there the player would remember a dire bear's bane (an enraged badger? haha)and that forth to do battle.
This is technically a dream sequence, but I'm basing it heavily on the ending of Stephen King's It, if any of you have read it. So the players are outside of reality sort of, but still able to affect the overall story. This isn't a dead story. They'll be getting xp per normal, and above all, the group I'm with right now is a RP heavy group so the dream world mechanics (I hope) will be well received.
As for other checks I was considering using this type of in game logic.
Bluff: The ability to create things in a dream. A bluff is a lie, and it's in a dream world where your mind creates reality, therefore, bluff=creation.
Intimidate: Intimidation is based off of a kind of anger or ability to scare others into your way of thinking, so Intimidate would be the brute force attack mechanic. Simply crushing another creature's will sounds awesome.
Sense Motive: In life, this is where you would determine someone's truthfulness, in a dream, this is where you would cast aside illusions. The defensive trait.
Diplomacy: I haven't quite finalized my thoughts for this, but maybe it would be a good version of intimidate. Perhaps by making the dream creature friendly? Or maybe just giving the whole party effective invisibility? Again, not sure.
Fly: In a dream you can fly. So can other creatures. No one but the druid has fly, so I would allow some leeway on their fly checks against wind, attack, or spells.
Perception: In my mind, this would be where you could shine as a rogue or as a craft PC. The perception roll would be for finding critical weaknesses and exploiting them. Perhaps rolling 2d20 (Disguise and Perception) a PC could deal massive amounts of damage.
Some other things I was thinking, but they're less important.
Thanks again for the input guys. :)
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