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Right, so I am playing a character for an upcoming reign of winter campaign. I will give you a little background and then request your help.
My group is likely to consist of an Alchemist, cleric of Seranre, Bard, Druid or Witch, and wizard. So obviously we need a tank.
Verno Sarpa is a Nagaji descended from a Guardian Naga. In his childhood he was trained as a warrior and a scholar. He has gone through a lot in his life and lost a lot as well. In magnimar in the Shadows he started a gang to protect people. It worked for a while but then he was arrested and his crew was killed. About 2 years ago, while sitting in prison for a crime he didn't commit in Magnimar he discovered Ragathiel, God of righteous vengeance. He has since dedicated his life for this cause.
Simply he is defined by this line: "I don't care about your laws, I don't care about what you call justice, I only care about what is right." By the way he is a neutral good paladin (as I have him now) by GM recommendation.
My current idea is a Sacred servant paladin with the oath of vengeance and the Rage subdomain. But this guy needs skills. Both my backstory demands it and I need it. I am currently playing a character in another game with no knowledges at all who is afraid of magic. And I don't want to play another dumb fighter.
Does anyone have any ideas for Multiclass/prestige concepts that will give me some skills without giving up the roll of tank? Or any other classes that will be effective as the only true front line fighter and meets these prereqs?
So you don't want the LG alignment, you want domain powers, and you want skills. It sounds like this concept might be better suited as an Inquisitor than a Paladin, especially if you want those skills to go toward Knowledges. They get medium armor, so you should be able to tank perfectly well, if you build it right.
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All powers are on the table. And the NG paladin was a suggestion of the GM. I am worried about (but open to) the inquisitor because we have no full BAB/high hitpoint people so far. but my backstory is set (rolled back story with GM) so whatever he ends up being needs to work well with that.
Edit: I have never played an inquisitor before, so if you think it could work well please give me an idea for how it should look :)
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+1 to the Inquisitor suggestion. As always, a good place to look at first is the Guide to the Guides that Zenith maintains. There are a couple Inquisitor guides there to get you started.
Paladin 5/ ninja X.
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Ok, So with an inquisitor, both the guides suggest that the inquisitor is not a great tank. Great striker but not a great tank. Any recommendations to make him a better tank? Heavy armor prof, Toughness and favored class HP come to mind but it still seams like her would go down to easily. Am I wrong?
The skills are great but with judgements and bane so limited he seems like he would only be useful in combat for a few rounds per day. More with the rage subdomain but not by much. Again if I am missing something please let me know.
Are there any good archetype suggestions?
Byrdology - That seems like a very odd combo to me. could you give more details?
If you want to tank, remember that Inquisitors are proficient with shields. Breastplate, heavy shield, and 12 Dex gives you 19 AC at level 1. Very solid. The only issue is that you'll need to put your sword on a weapon cord, so you can drop it to free up a hand to cast, then pick it back up with only a swift action.
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Ok you want a tank and you want knowledge? Take a little jaunt into Lore Oracle (Oracle class with the Lore mystery). This is quite possibly the best damn dip you are ever going to take for a Pally.
Lore Oracle with Sidestep Secret is a great match for a Paladin. Alternatively, the Nature mystery has a similar ability that puts CHA on AC and CMD instead of AC and Reflex saves.
Then you need to decide how much your willing to expend in Oracle. You only need a 1 level dip for this most awesome ability: Sidestep Secret (use your Charisma bonus to your AC in place of your DEX and to your Reflex in place of your DEX can you say CHA bonus to DEX twice?). However, if you wanted to you could spend two more levels and get another revelation that would allow you to use your Charisma bonus to your knowledges in place of your Intelligence. That one I don't recommend as highly unless your desperate on a point buy in.
Of course, you could also pick up any additional revelations you like via Extra Revelation.
Paladin 5/ ninja X.
or that nifty paladin/shadowdancer build i've seen posted around before.
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oooo lore oracle. That's kind of amazing, charisma to knowledge, all knowledge as class skills, charisma to ac and twice to reflex. wow, that is amazing.
I am thinking that giving him the lame curse would be great. he will move at 20 anyways because of fullplate and he will be immune to fatigue by time he gets rage.
Thanks for the idea. now its a tough choise with inquisitor.
still not understanding the whole ninja/shadowdancer thing...
Ninja gives 8 skills/ lvl and a better skill selection, Is cha dependent, adds SA and other goodies, and has a great RP potential.
Vanish + smite + SA = winning...
Ok, So with an inquisitor, both the guides suggest that the inquisitor is not a great tank.
We have an Inquisitor in our current game. He is a Dwarf. He can wear Heavy armor and not be encumbered. He uses Expeditious Retreat when he wants to move around the battlefield. He is the tank in the group.
I am currently playing a 1/2 elf who went fighter 4 (as a former pirate) and has since been 'Atoned' for his past mistakes and is now Inquisitor 2 but acts as a Paladin would. I had him go Inquisitor because of his past and the more social aspects of the class than straight Pali. AC 28! Hp 88 and he is a disarm/trip kind of fella with a heavy flail! I am really enjoying it and I skipped out on judgments for the Weapon Champion archtype to keep up his Battle prowess...working nicely and he IS the tank of the group. Don't be afraid of the fighter class for a few then jump into Inquisitor....worked great for me!
You don't have to be a "great" tank if you are a pretty good tank who is a great damage dealer with knowledge skills.
Frankly, I don't get why any guide would say the Inquisitor is not a good tank. You can easily get your AC trough the roof if need be. Get Heavy Armor Proficiency with full plate, a Shield and cast Magic Vestment on both and you are good to go. If you REALLY need even Higher AC, cast shield of faith and use the AC-judgement. And the best thing about it is that you only have the extreme AC when you need it.
If you don't need it, put the shield away (using Quickdraw + quickdraw shield is great for that but not needed), activate an offensive judgement and/or bane and annihilate anything in your path. And even when you want a bit of extra AC, your damage can still be pretty good even with a one-handed weapon since the main damage sources of the Inquisitor (Judgement, Bane, Precise Strike, Divine Favor etc.) don't care if you swing a one- or two-handed weapon.
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So, for clarity, when I talk about tanking with the inquisitor I don't just mean AC. With a feat, they can be as good a tank as your average paladin no problem. But lets be honest, AC only goes so far. If you have to high an AC to be unhittable smart enemies will take out the squishies that you are trying to protect who are doing AOE damage and such. And with average AC you are still going to be getting the stuffing knocked out of you quite often. The other problem is hit points. With a d8 plus con for hitpoints they are squishy, my fear is that I will get dropped quickly and die young. Thats what happened to my magus.
They also don't hit very often unless they are using all their tricks which they can only do for 1-3 battles a day for the majority of their career. This means I will be on the loosing side of the DPR unless I go all out.
Now I am not saying inquisitor is not right, It gives my the skills and divine power I am looking for so it is awesome but I am trying to figure out a way to consistently hold the front line in battle when I am the only one there. I may on occasion have a alchemist (who is primarily going to focus on bombs) or a bard there with me but I am the front line, and I don't want to die before I get to level 5.
BiosTheo - Even with a Max dex of one full plate is better armor. It gives +10 to AC while the max a chain shirt can give is +8 and a breastplate can give is +9. But yes, I would by Celestial Plate as soon as I could afford it.