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Well, I am aware that the familiar never 'levels up', and thus receives zero feats, or skill points for a new hit die.
However, as the master's level increases, so does the familiar's Int score, reaching 10 at Level 9, 12 at level 13, and 14 at level 17.
Which would, in theory, entitle a normal familiar (which is of the Magical Beast type, thus receiving 2 + Int Modifier skill points per HD) to an additional skill point per HD at the stated levels.
Question is, should one grant these skill points, or not?
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.
The italicized part above shows where skill points come from (not from Intelligence stat of familiar).
The only thing a higher Intelligence would effect is the bolded section above, so no, the familiar would get no additional skill points.
AS Intelligence is the only ability that varies with leveling, I am pretty sure he would gain skill points.
Why ? Because every ability is retroactive, and because you can't keep skill points for later.
And for that :
the familiar uses its own ability modifiers.
It just means that the familiar uses its own ability modifiers instead of its master. A familiar's Int DOES goes up when its master level up.
AS Intelligence is the only ability that varies with leveling, I am pretty sure he would gain skill points.
Why ? Because every ability is retroactive, and because you can't keep skill points for later.
And for that :
the familiar uses its own ability modifiers.It just means that the familiar uses its own ability modifiers instead of its master. A familiar's Int DOES goes up when its master level up.
The modifiers are used to determine how well the familiar does at a skill (ie, ranks+class skill bonus+appropriate stat modifier), not for how many stat points the familiar actually gets. Reread my quote from PFSRD, ranks are determined by:
1) what skills does the master have ranks in?2) what ranks does the base creature have?
3) those are the skills the creature has ranks in
4) the ranks are determined by which (master or base animal) have the most ranks in each of those skills.
I believe the crux of the disagreement rests on "the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type", as I see that as what is in the bestiary. I assume you see that as what that animal w/ Intelligence of X would have ranks in? If that is the case, I can understand the argument, but disagree.
So, I guess I would have to suggest to the OP to consult w/ your GM, table variance is possible.
Familiars' base skills and skill point allocation must be those of the original animal:
It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.
The above notwithstanding, a decent argument could be made that in addition to the base skills and skill point allocation, the familiar should get additional skill points for higher Intelligence (as "retaining" skills does not necessarily imply no new skills may be gained), but even if this argument were accepted the additional skill points would only be added once to the base number of skill points, not added at each level (as familiars are not leveled creatures) or per additional hit die (as they also don't actually get additional hit dice).
@Zog : totally agree.
That would mean 1 skill rank when its INT is 10, 1 more at 12 and 1 more at 14, for a total of 4 skill ranks in total.
For an improved familiar, those values can be doubled (and maybe more, for improved familiar that have more than 2 HD, if those exists).
Every time a familar's Int increases to the point it would get more skill points based on Int, the familiar gets an amount of additional skill points to allocate equal to its actual HD (not its master's) just as an animal whose Int was raised to 10 or more would.
That would mean 1 skill rank when its INT is 10, 1 more at 12 and 1 more at 14, for a total of 4 skill ranks in total.
Shouldn't that be one point at Int 12 and another at Int 14? With an Intelligence of 10 or 11, the Familiar still wouldn't get any bonus skill-points.
Animals get 2+ INT skill points per level.
A familiar is level 1 with less than 8 in INT, so it has 1 skill point.
By having 10 INT, it has 2 points per level, for a total of 2 skill points.
12 => 3
14 => 4.
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.The italicized part above shows where skill points come from (not from Intelligence stat of familiar).
The only thing a higher Intelligence would effect is the bolded section above, so no, the familiar would get no additional skill points.
You posted the correct information but bolded the wrong text. The important text for this question is "use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of this type or the master's skill ranks". The argument that they are a magical beast is a non-starter as that statement is limited to effects and skill points are not effects.
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You posted the correct information but bolded the wrong text. The important text for this question is "use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of this type or the master's skill ranks". The argument that they are a magical beast is a non-starter as that statement is limited to effects and skill points are not effects.Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.The italicized part above shows where skill points come from (not from Intelligence stat of familiar).
The only thing a higher Intelligence would effect is the bolded section above, so no, the familiar would get no additional skill points.
Except that the italicized text does not, in fact, unequivocably answer the question of how many skill points a familiar gets. It answers the related but different question of how many skill ranks a familiar gets. The first clause, "For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, ..." tells us nothing about exactly how many skills a familiar might have independent of its master, although the remainder of the sentence tells us that familiars are no better at those skills than a standard animal of its type (except in such cases as they can piggyback off the master's ranks in the same skill).
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From http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html#_animal
"An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted).
Skill points equal to 2 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for animals: Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim."
And since the hit dice of the familiar = the character level of the wizard ("Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.") I would argue that the familiar gets 1 per wizard level until its INT reaches 10; then it would get 2 per level.
However, they throw in this on that same page about animals: "Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal)." So, does that mean because the familiar is smart it gets fewer skills? Or, if it's not an animal creature type, what type is it? I think that last quote can be safely ignored because under the listing of familar in the bestiary, it clearly states that familiars are animals (at least, all those listed in the first Bestiary are).
I think the intent is that they are unnaturally smart animals, and since they gain HD with wiz levels, they do gain skill points/ranks (is there a difference?). I just wish they had clarified it right in the familiar section of the core rules.