Witch is the one class I still havent figured out how to make it work effectively. So I was wondering if anyone have any idea of how to make a powerful Witch for a possible main Antagonist.
For Levels 15-16
Witches are not great for taking on multiple opponents as a boss because they are designed to debuff more than they are designed to "get the kill". In other words if you want a single boss encounter, which is not generally a good idea it is difficult to make it happen with a witch.
The best use of a witch is to pair them up with other NPC's/monsters designed to hurt the PC's. The witch will make it a lot easier for the hurting to take place.
I would use the witch to debuff the party systematically, and have a class like the bard there to buff those whose purpose is to hurt the PC's.
Is the party around level 15-16 or do you want the CR of the final fight to be around 15-16?
From what I hear, the problem with a good witch build is not that they are lacking power, but that they are too strong. I have seen several threads on this forum with GM's complaining about hexes like ice tomb tearing through their encounters. With the cackle hex, a witch can keep limited turn debuffs such as Evil Eye can last indefinitely for just a move action.
Remember, hexes are designed for PC's, who tend to have few against many when it is not few against one big mean mofo. Witches are made to debuff as much as possible so that a fighter can smash and wizard/sorcerer can spam save or die. Hexes typically are limited to 'one try on this specific character' per day, and can be spammed once for each enemy. With a 4-6 person party.... things can go ugly fast.
Unless you plan to just have the witch alone serve as the sole opponent. That can be a bit more tricky, since they tend to focus on debuffs rather than blasting and such. Still, the witch spell list includes all of the summon monster spells, so you can pick some nice meatshields to help until she decimates the party. Other suggestions include the prehensile hair hex, which both works with a high INT and provides a bit of reach.
Scarred Witch Doctor.
I played one of those. They still don't take down entire groups better than a wizard or sorcerer would.
Witches are not great for taking on multiple opponents as a boss because they are designed to debuff more than they are designed to "get the kill". In other words if you want a single boss encounter, which is not generally a good idea it is difficult to make it happen with a witch.
The best use of a witch is to pair them up with other NPC's/monsters designed to hurt the PC's. The witch will make it a lot easier for the hurting to take place.
I would use the witch to debuff the party systematically, and have a class like the bard there to buff those whose purpose is to hurt the PC's.
Is the party around level 15-16 or do you want the CR of the final fight to be around 15-16?
CR of the final fight to be around 15-16 I think.
Scarred Witch Doctor.I played one of those. They still don't take down entire groups better than a wizard or sorcerer would.
Yeah that seems to be the problem. So I guess I will pair her with another NPC or maybe 2.
Then a good question would be....
Which classes make good Synergy with Witch to attack as a group?
Halfling witch with the Halfling Jinx racial trait, the feat that lets you stack jinx effects onto Evil Eye, and assorted support feats and hexes.
I've played this one as a PC. He terrified the players. :)
Halfling witch with the Halfling Jinx racial trait, the feat that lets you stack jinx effects onto Evil Eye, and assorted support feats and hexes.
I've played this one as a PC. He terrified the players. :)
Wow that does indeed sounds scary.
Scarred Witch Doctor.I played one of those. They still don't take down entire groups better than a wizard or sorcerer would.Yeah that seems to be the problem. So I guess I will pair her with another NPC or maybe 2.
Then a good question would be....
Which classes make good Synergy with Witch to attack as a group?
CR 13 witch
CR 9 bard. He is only there to buff however once he is singing he can still be used offensively.
CR 12 evil bronze dragon. I know they are normally good aligned, but it would be a good twist, and their gas(breath) might keep those martials from killing the witch too quickly. link to CR 12 version
You can redo the spells if you wish. I normally do.
CR 9 archer. Have him concentrate on any casters. I would suggest the ranger(guide archetype).
Right now that is a CR 15 encounter.
If you want to push it to 16 I would add in 2 more CR 9 archers and one CR 11 melee type. I think an invulnerable barbarian fits in fine. Make sure he has a potion of fly to bypass any difficult terrain.
Halfling witch with the Halfling Jinx racial trait, the feat that lets you stack jinx effects onto Evil Eye, and assorted support feats and hexes.
I've played this one as a PC. He terrified the players. :)
I love halflings, i might have to try this out :)
Here's his build. We didn't get past 9th level, but it was working pretty damn well at that point.
Core tactic is to use Malicious Evil Eye to hex your target's saves first. If he makes the saving throw it'll still affect him for one round, so start Cackling while M.E.E.ing attacks, AC, or whatever seems best at the time. If the target is exceptionally competent, throw in a Misfortune to make his life that much more difficult.
RACIAL TRAIT: Halfling Jinx - replaces Halfling Luck (HoG)
TRAITS
Unafraid (Orcs of Golarion)
On the Payroll (CCPG)
FEATS /HEXES
01 - Malicious Eye (HoG) /Evil Eye
02 /Cackle
03 - Iron Will
04 /Misfortune
05 - Bolster Jinx (HoG)
06 /Flight
07 - Improved Familiar
08 /Scar
09 - Sluggish Jinx (HoG)
10 /Icy Tomb
11 - Lightning Reflexes
12 /Agony
13 - Great Fortitude
14 /Waxen Image
15 - Split Hex (UM)
16 /Beast Eye
17 - Accursed Hex (UM)
18 /Dire Prophecy
19 - Extra Hex (APG) /Witch's Hut
20 /Death Curse
Spirit patron.
Scarred Witch Doctor.I played one of those. They still don't take down entire groups better than a wizard or sorcerer would.Yeah that seems to be the problem. So I guess I will pair her with another NPC or maybe 2.
Then a good question would be....
Which classes make good Synergy with Witch to attack as a group?
CR 13 witch
CR 9 bard. He is only there to buff however once he is singing he can still be used offensively.
CR 12 evil bronze dragon. I know they are normally good aligned, but it would be a good twist, and their gas(breath) might keep those martials from killing the witch too quickly. link to CR 12 version
You can redo the spells if you wish. I normally do.CR 9 archer. Have him concentrate on any casters. I would suggest the ranger(guide archetype).
Right now that is a CR 15 encounter.
If you want to push it to 16 I would add in 2 more CR 9 archers and one CR 11 melee type. I think an invulnerable barbarian fits in fine. Make sure he has a potion of fly to bypass any difficult terrain.
6 men party and the only true spellcaster is a Cleric. Alchemist dont roll concentration checks.
If it is a 6 man party I am assuming they are level 10 or 11. This would work well. The archers should be trying to bring the cleric down.
If it is a 6 man party I am assuming they are level 10 or 11. This would work well. The archers should be trying to bring the cleric down.
Sounds good and yeah they are Level 11 all 6.
Just a questions how do you calculate the encounter challenge rating having such a diversity of different CR. When all enemies are same CR is a lot easier I guess.
If there is some sort of formula let me know in which book is it. Thanks.
You basically just add all their XP-values together, as described in the game mastery section "Designing Encounters" of the CRB the PRD.
Ahh I see. Right... so that why and how lower CR contribute few to the CR encounter. Thanks
If it is a 6 man party I am assuming they are level 10 or 11. This would work well. The archers should be trying to bring the cleric down.Sounds good and yeah they are Level 11 all 6.
Just a questions how do you calculate the encounter challenge rating having such a diversity of different CR. When all enemies are same CR is a lot easier I guess.
If there is some sort of formula let me know in which book is it. Thanks.
You can use the XP version in the book or you can use method of adding CR+CR=CR+2
I guess I better give an example. 2 CR5's are a CR7
2 CR 7's are a CR 9
As you can see in both cases the resulting CR is two higher than the 2 that it is made of.
If the difference between CR's is 2 the resulting CR is going to be +1 higher.
Example:
CR8 +CR 10=CR 11
If you use XP the results will be the same.
If you have 6 level 11 players then I would use the 16 CR fight.
With 6 of them their APL is effectively a 12. Once I get to this level I use boss fights at APL+4, but if you know your group better than I do.
If you use the CR 15 fight I mentioned before then use two CR 7 archers instead of one CR 9 archer.
If it is a 6 man party I am assuming they are level 10 or 11. This would work well. The archers should be trying to bring the cleric down.Sounds good and yeah they are Level 11 all 6.
Just a questions how do you calculate the encounter challenge rating having such a diversity of different CR. When all enemies are same CR is a lot easier I guess.
If there is some sort of formula let me know in which book is it. Thanks.
You can use the XP version in the book or you can use method of adding CR+CR=CR+2
I guess I better give an example. 2 CR5's are a CR7
2 CR 7's are a CR 9
As you can see in both cases the resulting CR is two higher than the 2 that it is made of.
If the difference between CR's is 2 the resulting CR is going to be +1 higher.
Example:
CR8 +CR 10=CR 11
If you use XP the results will be the same.
If you have 6 level 11 players then I would use the 16 CR fight.
With 6 of them their APL is effectively a 12. Once I get to this level I use boss fights at APL+4, but if you know your group better than I do.
If you use the CR 15 fight I mentioned before then use two CR 7 archers instead of one CR 9 archer.
XP systems seems easy to use and the CR + CR = CR +2 but this is when enemies have same CR.
Sooo Lets see... you said:
CR 13 witch
CR 9 bard
CR 12 evil bronze dragon
CR 9 archer.
The base Cr is the highest? CR 13?
So only another CR 13 gives a +2 CR?
CR 11-12 add a +1
Witch 13 + 1 for Dragon + 1 Bard and archer (CR9 + CR9 = 9 + 2 = 11) = 15
Using two Archers CR7 instead of one CR 9 would still add +1 making the encounter a CR15 still. (CR7 Archer + CR 7 Archer = CR9 + Bard CR9 = CR 11)
Party Have:
Brb3/Ftr8
Alchemist 11
Ranger 11 (Archer)
Cleric 11
Fighter 11 (Tank) (This one is well thought to protect Adjacent allies with Aid Another and Bodyguard + Combat Reflex + In Harm's Way.)
Rogue 11
To really make the witch shine I wouldn't include a dragon, as they will be a pretty big show steal, but you'll want some sort of highly viable melee combatant, and dragons fill this role while carrying a decent spell selection.
Definitely make good use of intimidate on one of you enemies (Dazzling Display works well here), as that will drop the group by -2 for the purposes of your witch's save or suck abilities, which are the main abilities a witch front lines.
The witch is there as a "smoke and mirrors" effect. She is the boss, but instead of being the one to bring the pain like most bosses do she will be acting as a sort of force multiplier. While the party is trying to kill her the debuffs and the buffed minions will be killing them.
She should have some offensive spells, but her main goal to set up her minions, and after evil eyeing the fighter she should be trying to put him to sleep. :)
Of course if they fail the save vs the repulsion(basically another debuff) affect that may not be needed.
Witches are debuffers by trade, so I would focus on that. Bestow Curse, Major Curse, Contagions, and other long lasting effects can really stack up. So, rather than making the encounter a single big fight, I would use hit & run tactics to cripple the party while they traverse a dangerous area.
After they're each carrying a couple of curses or other disabilities, and they've used up resources throughout the day, I would send have the witch "fortune" a bunch of common monsters and send them into their camp. (Before or after they fall asleep, depending on how much I think they can handle.)
I again suggest various summoning spells since it can both provide brute force with little set up (in case of a surprise attack by PC's) and they give a sense of agency on her part for all of her summon's actions.
There are some swarm summon spells in there too. See if you can knock the casters unconscious so that the melee fighters and archers have to get creative. Do they remember to bring a couple flasks of alchemist fire, or at least that club that is completely free for everyone? Plus...it makes the encounter much more memorable if the players can think of the witch as "the one that vomited spiders onto my face"
If your options are wide open you almost MUST go with a half-elf witch and select paragon surge as a spell you know. You get all hexes via the extra hex feat.