I am designing a +5 great sword weapon for my Barbarian. I have it at a +3 courageous furious weapon. I want to add keen instead so I need to drop one of the other enchantments which in your opinion is better?
courageous:
gives me 1/2 my enchantment to str
gives me 1/2 my enchantment to con
boosts my superstition bonus bonus by half the enchantment
Furious:
increases my enchantment bonus to+5 boosting my Courageous bonus to +2(see above)
makes my sword capable of overcoming majority of DR
grab the improved crit feat instead.
grab the improved crit feat instead.
I am feat starved like annie in that movie I still am waiting for my daddy warbucks of feats
Would Courageous and Furious really stack that way?
If not, then just go down to +2 Furious Courageous Keen. If so, then BBT is right; the oil is the best choice.
Would Courageous and Furious really stack that way?
If not, then just go down to +2 Furious Courageous Keen. If so, then BBT is right; the oil is the best choice.
Mathematically, you are probably better off with a +2 Furious, Courageous, Keen weapon, since Courageous adds the same bonus for +2 and +3. Improve the weapon to +4 the next time you have enough gold.
If you really want a keen weapon and a don't want to give up the +3, then you can purchase a wand for your friendly neighborhood wizard, design a custom item that can be used x times per day, go with the oil of keen edge (as mentioned bu BBT) or a scabbard of keen edges - assuming you have enough gold for any of these options.
Courageous is not worth it unless I have at least +2 to my moral and saves.
I really like the +5 so I dont have to worry about alignment DR
Actually, now that I re-read vicious, I'm going to just recommend going down to +2 Furious Courageous Keen.
Furious gets it to act as +4, which is just as good as +5 for the Courageous purposes.
Is there no one to pump you with things like Heroism?
no not really my character is pretty Self Reliant
Actually, now that I re-read vicious, I'm going to just recommend going down to +2 Furious Courageous Keen.
Furious gets it to act as +4, which is just as good as +5 for the Courageous purposes.
that may be the way to go I wont bypass most DR/alingment but it is the way to go I think.
What is the Race of this PC?
Kellid human barbarian
Thanks Conan...ahem I mean Thorg the unbreakable needs no help! lol
Courageous will add for the barbarian which at a +5 weapon with furious makes it +7.. 7/2= =+3 bonus
Rage: str and con ( which when adding the +3 to the str and con, will give an extra +1 str and +1 con mod. The str, for 2 handed will net +3 damage, and the con will give you 1 HP/ level.
Superstition rage power: unlike the str and con bonus, since the courageous bonus will add to the original number, then figure out the modifier, here, it's a flat +3 to the save, NOT the ability. So the saves actually go up,by +3, and not less. Superstition does not stack with the morale will save bonus barbarians get from rage.
Ghost rager: which will gain the bonus from superstition.
Also, if you get a lords banner (victory) that will have a base +2 morale bonus to you and allies for attacks, saves, and skills. If this is too expensive, the flawed pale green prism ioun stone gives a +1 morale bonus.
Unfortunately you will only get it for the attack and skills, since the saves you already receive a morale bonus, but oly if you rage. If you choose not to rage, you'd get a +2 bonus from the weapon, and the +2 from the banner. Not bad for not raging.
Courageous will add for the barbarian which at a +5 weapon with furious makes it +7.. 7/2= =+3 bonus
Rage: str and con ( which when adding the +3 to the str and con, will give an extra +1 str and +1 con mod. The str, for 2 handed will net +3 damage, and the con will give you 1 HP/ level.
Superstition rage power: unlike the str and con bonus, since the courageous bonus will add to the original number, then figure out the modifier, here, it's a flat +3 to the save, NOT the ability. So the saves actually go up,by +3, and not less. Superstition does not stack with the morale will save bonus barbarians get from rage.
Ghost rager: which will gain the bonus from superstition.
Also, if you get a lords banner (victory) that will have a base +2 morale bonus to you and allies for attacks, saves, and skills. If this is too expensive, the flawed pale green prism ioun stone gives a +1 morale bonus.
Unfortunately you will only get it for the attack and skills, since the saves you already receive a morale bonus, but oly if you rage. If you choose not to rage, you'd get a +2 bonus from the weapon, and the +2 from the banner. Not bad for not raging.
I hae 50k the weapon can only be +5 total including properties.
I would personally go with Furious and Courageous. There is really good synery since Courageous add to the bonus you get to Strength and Constitution from Rage, as well as your morale bonus to will save from Rage. If you take Superstition (which I hope you have, and have been using your favored class bonus to increase it) then it gives the same bonus to your Superstition bonus to saves against Spell, Spell-like abilities, and Supernatural abilities. I would work with the oil of keen edges until I can obtain the Improved Critical feat or have enough money to add keen as well as an enchant on the weapon if you really can't afford to change out any feats in your build.
Edit: I do have to ask though, which weapon are you using? Or more precisely, what is the crit range of the weapon your using? Really, unless you're using a Nodachi or other weapon with an 18-20 crit range I would prioritize Furious and Courageous. I will also mention there was a thread where it was broken down whether or not to go for damage dice or crit range (i.e. Greatsword versus Nodachi) and I think the final answer was, once your static damage modifier increased to a +28 your avaerage damage on the Nodachi was greater than the Greatsword.
great sword going more for a theme than damage
I hae 50k the weapon can only be +5 total including properties.
Ok so any number you see that I posted for the morale gain, which was +3, due to +7 total enhancement, and not +5 from courageous and enhancement.
Since you have a +5 total to work with, get a +3 furious courageous great sword. You'll get a +2 from courageous.
Superstition does not stack with the morale will save bonus barbarians get from rage.
Rage gives you a morale bonus to will saves.
Superstition gives a separate will saves against certain effects.
They stack because the morale bonus to the exact same thing.
As an example if you get an enhancement bonus to damage, and another enhancement bonus to damage that only worked when fighting dragons they stack.
Superstition does not stack with the morale will save bonus barbarians get from rage.
Rage gives you a morale bonus to will saves.
Superstition gives a separate will saves against certain effects.
They stack because the morale bonus to the exact same thing.
As an example if you get an enhancement bonus to damage, and another enhancement bonus to damage that only worked when fighting dragons they stack.
Bonuses of the same type do not stack. So a morale bonus to will will NOT stack with a morale bonus to will of a specific issue. The greater of the two is factored, not the lesser, or both.
This is common knowledge as well as the issue of the rage will save bonus and superstition. It has been an issue since superstition first came out, and many players try to get the GM to have the bonus stack, by way of having the bonus go to wisdom, not will save.
Heck, even the issue has been asked to devs before. If they did stack there wouldn't be an issue. But there is, and they do not stack.
I know same type bonuses to stack when going to the exact same thing, but I have never heard of them not stacking otherwise. Otherwise the ability is useless for will saves when you first get it, and that is the main reason to get it.
Which dev said they did not stack?
Same bonuses never stacked.
Your example of enhancement to damage is inverted. What's being changed is the damage. It works on dragons , but if one ability gives extra damage to all types, and another strictly to dragons, the one that is higher, that is applicable is used.
It's an actual written rule in the core book. Don't have on hand, but it's there. Only certain bonuses, like dodge, circumstance (certain times), racial bonuses stack. All others no.
Now, if for some reason you need to make a will save that is not a spell, spell like ability, or a supernatural ability, of which I can't recall of anything that's fits that, then the normal rage will save bonus will bemused, and not superstition, otherwise superstition is used.
Not true on the reason to not get the rage power. You want it for that exact reason. The reason to not get it is probably more akin to dealing with buffs and having spells affect you.
Rage: from level 1-10 you get a +2 to will, at 11th you get +3, at 20th when you get your final rage it's +4 to will save.
Superstition at just level 4, slightly lower than half the levels to reach 11th level, you have a bonus to all saves at +3. So at 4th level, you equal the same bonus from normal rage will save at 11th. At 8th level it goes up again, and now you match Our 20th level will save bonus. The moment you go above +4, the feat is instantly bettern than the rage.
One of my 2 current barbarians is 12 level, the other 10, the level 10 barbarian is getting +7 to all saves, and my 12th level is getting +9. Both are human, so they get extra save bonuses.
Also, the superstition rage power is to all your saves, not just will. So if your not getting it because of the potential overlap, that's the wrong reason. That same level 4 barbarian( which has the same will bonus morale as an 11th for matching morale saves) has a fort: 4 base + 4 superstition + 2 con rage=+10 , reflex and will will be the same at 1+4=+5.
Same bonuses never stacked.
We agree on this barring dodge and certain other bonuses, but our disagreement is whether or not it has to specify the exact same thing.
It does. If there was, hypothetically, an ability that added a morale bonus for instance to:
Power attack, rage, damage, and enh.
Those all add up and are added for damage but the actual bonuses are to each separate thing, which then sums up to your total damage.
The enh. Bonus for dragons vs. all enh. is not an issue.
+2 enh bonus or +2 vs dragons. The two won't add if you face a dragon as you see it, because the enhancement bonus is still affecting your enhancement, the two are the same. The fact that it's facing a dragon makes no difference, unless the vs. dragon enhancement is higher than the vs. all enhancement. In which case you use that higher one.
If it affects the same thing they don't stack. The issue of superstiton stacking with rage will bonus, does not stack.