@Browman: I had thought about that, and we'd just give him one favored enemy. Then, Master Hunter wouldn't be obsolete either, just limited. But with his other abilities, its still a viable capstone, even if it's only one creature type.
Also, we'll see about getting some school powers, maybe. Anyone have other suggestions as to how to make it more "wizard" in the earlier levels?
I feel like there is an argument for 6th level casting in there somehow.
+5 has a point and i had lowered his BAB to account for the full wizards spell list. if we bumped it to 6th level casting then more so he should have the full spell list
Well, that's totally doable, as the ranger is 1/2 caster and wizard is full caster, by the guidelines we could go hybrid caster. Then we'd need to do something about the spell list, either use the wizard and add in key ranger spells, or craft a new spell list altogether, which may be a good way to go. Essentially turining it into rangeresque "magus" in that respect.
Hunters' resourcefulness: starting at level 1 every odd level after first the AH my add 1 spell from the 1st level ranger spell list to his spell book as well as well as his normal spell add from the wizard spell list from leveling. he cast this spells as arcane spell, and must perpair it as he would his other spells. at level 5 he my choose a 1st or 2nd level spell from the 2nd level ranger spell list, at 11th level he may chose a 1st, 2nd or 3rd level spell and when he reaches level 15 he my choose any spell form ranger spell list
how is that it would allow the player to chose the flavor he would want from the ranger spell list 10 spells in all 3 of 1st, 2nd and 3rd level 4 of 4th level of ranger spell
Before we move on to the 6th level caster version of this MCA, I want to add in a few things to the 1/2 caster version.
1) Keep 1st Favored Enemy and give Hunter's Weapon for free.
2) New ability, replaces wild empathy. Now, as I'm not totaly up on the whole rules for casting spells from scrolls, I don't know if this ability is totally useless. Let me know. In any case, I hope you understand the purpose of it, to allow spellcasting from scrolls to occur earlier than his actual spellcasting ability.
3) Gains Magical Aptitude as a bonus feat at 2nd level Empathy.
4) Spellcasting: Draws spell from both the ranger and sorcerer/wizard (up to 4th level spells) spell lists. Gains detect magic and read magic, plus 3 1st-level spells from either list. At each new level after 4th, he gains two new spells, but one must be from the ranger list, and the other from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. Essentially, this makes the MCA "specialized" in ranger magic, forcing him to choose a spell from each list at each new level.
I don't know if this is precisely the correct place for this, but I have some brief feedback for the Shadow Magus - one of my players made up a Dancing Dervish SM.
My player was going for a magic ninja feel; to him, that means magic spells, plus rogue skills and sneak attacks. But he quickly found out that the SM was tragically outclassed by the Magus in combat, and the Vanish spell plus one rank in Stealth could more or less simulate any and all class features the SM had to offer (this is at level 5).
I mean, to be fair, the Magus is more than a little OP at level 5 - by using Spell Recall in conjunction with Spell Combat, Spellstrike, and shocking grasp, the Magus can trade 1 point from his arcane pool to dish out over 7d6 damage over a full attack. I guess I can't blame you guys for being leery of introducing that level of power into a level 5 character (the SM can still do this, but without Spell Recall, he's looking at maybe once per day, or twice, tops), but it really bums me out that it renders the SM's sneak attack utility completely obsolete.
This is because, even without that terrifying 7d6 figure to compare itself to, Shadowstrike is just plain weak; regardless of whether or not you can deal 7d6 with a level 1 spell, trading in a level 2 spell for 2d6 points of damage is kind of a silly trade.
So I guess if I had one complaint about the archetype, it's that its sneak attack ability is so worthless. Barring a solid incentive to flank, the build really encourages the player to behave exactly like a straight-up magus, but be worse at it while doing so.
Fortunately, I think the fix is easy enough; buff the sneak attack. That would not only bring its power level in line with the magus, but also encourage the player to play his character like he should - opportunistic, backstabbing ninja glory!
There are a few ways that I can think of that would make the sneak attack desireable again (although you guys are the pros at this, not me). One would be to give the SM the exact same Sneak Attack as the Ninja, but bar the ninja from using sneak attack with spell combat. This would make Sneak Attacking a SM's modus operandi, but give the SM the option of unleashing that 7d6 when he really needs it. Yes, this is more powerful than a regular ninja in combat - but to be fair, it's less powerful than a regular magus. So it works out!
The other option would be to have the Sneak Attack only work with Spellstrike, but instead of replacing the spell with minor damage, it enhances the attack with the listed amount of damage.
Honestly, I think the power level is behind the straight Magus to the point where the SM could get a sneak attack for free without being OP by magus standards; otherwise, you could make the SM pay 1 Chakra per sneak attack, although with MAD as bad as the SM's, that's gonna hurt a lot at the lower levels. Or, the SM could spend 1 Chakra to buy the ability to sneak attack for a number of minutes, similar to (or perhaps instead of) the straight Magus's ability to enhance his weapon, as listed under the Arcane pool.
So that's that. Wow, that grew quickly! I don't know if you guys are all that interested in revisiting old concepts, but there it is :) I hope you guys can see where I'm coming from.
scrollcaster is not bad it taxes the player a bet but it not a X time a day thing so that's not so bad
*note coast of scroll is 25 gold for 1st level spell of either wizard or ranger >PRD
and adding spells in that way could be a good compromise, but we will have to note how it counts as arcane or divine all so if he can add spells to his spell book any other way
I don't know if this is precisely the correct place for this, but I have some brief feedback for the Shadow Magus - one of my players made up a Dancing Dervish SM.
...stuff...
Thanks DM Darth Loof! We always welcome feedback on our MCAs, old or new. He doesn't get 7d6 damage, ever. He deals 1d6 per level of the spell expended. I think simplest fix may be for him gain the sneak attack damage for 1 minute, once the spell is expended. That gives him 10 rounds in which ti use the sneak attack, which is a conditional ability anyways.
Just to note, the Shadow Magus HAS NOT gone through final revisions or tweaks (that's any MCA on the wiki with an "*" in parentheses, so your feedback is useful. We'll take your suggestions under advisement. Thanks again for your interest.
@DM Darth Loof - playtest info like this is priceless!!! Thanks for the feedback, and thank you for taking the time to relay it to us with some ideas based on your game. It really makes my day when I hear that people are using MCAs and integrating them into their games...
I don't see why Arcane Hunter is d8 3/4 BAB.
It's still a 4th level caster, still a main martial class, its spellcasting is just a tad more offensive than it was before.
I personally don't feel like the class is getting enough from wizard and from its spell list to justify losing so many of the ranger's base stats.
Now, switching the saves and lowering the skill points, that makes sense. But dropping a still very prime martial class to d8 and 3/4 bab, is not super cool. Especially since those are the specs of a druid, who has 9th level casting AND awesome class abilities. (I pick on druid because ranger to druid is paladin to cleric)
@Darth Loof- thanks for the feedback! We're working on the next PDF right now, but when Shadow Magus comes up for a rework we'll fix that up.
For now, you might want to see if he's willing to switch to the Trick Blade- it's a bit better balanced and should work well as a dervish, though slightly more utility focused.
I don't see why Arcane Hunter is d8 3/4 BAB.
It's still a 4th level caster, still a main martial class, its spellcasting is just a tad more offensive than it was before.
I personally don't feel like the class is getting enough from wizard and from its spell list to justify losing so many of the ranger's base stats.
Now, switching the saves and lowering the skill points, that makes sense. But dropping a still very prime martial class to d8 and 3/4 bab, is not super cool. Especially since those are the specs of a druid, who has 9th level casting AND awesome class abilities. (I pick on druid because ranger to druid is paladin to cleric)
Yeah, I think we could probably return it to d10, and give it the Medium Armor ability (as the Magus ability) at say 9th level since he gets spells later. Or maybe even cast in Light and Medium armor from the get go? That's if we keep it a 1/2 caster.
If we go hybrid caster (6th level spells), then we need to do some fiddling around with things.
I think hybrid caster would suit this MCA and make some of its other abilities better. Since The list for lvl 5 and 6 would be custom we could avoid the really OP spells and give the MCA a small selection to choose from.
We'd likely need to custom make the spell list, moving certain spells that are normally 1st level ranger spells to 2nd level, 2nd to 3rd, etc., then adding in wizards spells that are flavorful to the MCA. Yeas, we'd need to limit to mostly 6th level sorcerer/wizard spells at the highest, maybe a 7th or two, depending upon flavor.
Then we could move Medium Armor ability to 7th like the Magus.
I see their spell list at higher levels as being basically damage dealing or debuffs.
i would really rather rebuild the whole MCA if it meant not having a custom spell list. it really what i most want to avoid
The way I see the spell list would be more of an augmented ranger list than a completely custom spell list. And in this case I think the options are either stay at 4th lvl casting or hybrid with augmented list.
Yeah, with a ranger primary, you can't just go wholesale wizards list and add ranger spells to the list, its should be the other way around. Even a magus doesn't have access to all the wizard spells.
If you went Wiz primary, that would be different.
I'm glad you guys appreciated the feedback! Rereading my post, I think I came off a little too negative; I just want to know that I really appreciate the work you guys do, and there's a lot of great stuff going on ,both with the SM class, and with others! And @Raiderrpg, I will be sure to show him the Trick Blade - it looks right up his alley!
Just so you know, I've also got a guy having a great time with a Vanara (ARG) Furious Fist (monk/barbarian). At first he was kind of thrown by not being able to Flurry while raging (and thus having a lower BAB while raging, which the increased ability scores don't quite cancel out, along with a lower damage output), but then he starting thinking of rage as more of a mobile melee tactic.
Still, I was tempted to have the FF use his class level in place of his BAB while raging, to compensate for the lower damage output; if he has to deal with fewer, slower attacks while he's in a rage, my reasoning went, they had better be friggin' terrifying! But I eventually sided with you guys, and didn't; his character was doing just fine without the houserule. And anyway, the boosts to Str and Dex boost his AC and skills (dramatically at later levels), and the higher damage helps with bypassing DR, and with the coup de grace. So, I think you guys got it right
We really like the archetype; it's a lot of fun! Plus, it really feels like it should - a particularly aggressive monk, who was absent when they taught the "peace and harmony" thing at monk school, but has some of the raw hurtin' power of the barbarian.
Again, you guys are doing great work here, and I'd love to contribute when I get the chance.
@DM Darth Loof: Glad you are enjoying our work! Feel free to contribute whenever you have time or are inspired to. As you can see we keep a pretty hands on approach to thread designed MCAs, so you are welcome to join us whenever you are able and we'll help you develop any ideas you come up with.
#ARCANE HUNTER
I don't think we need to completely redesign the MCA. I think this will work just fine. Spell list includes all ranger spell (but shifted to appropriate alternate levels) and certain wizard spells I felt were in theme.
Primary Class: Ranger.
Secondary Class: Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The arcane archer may select three wizard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal ranger class skills. The arcane archer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The arcane archer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, and with shields. An arcane hunter can cast arcane hunter spells while wearing light armor and using a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane hunter wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass arcane hunter still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: An arcane hunter casts arcane spells drawn from the arcane hunter’s spell list. An arcane hunter must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the arcane hunter must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane hunter's spell is 10 + the spell level + the arcane hunter's Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an arcane hunter can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Arcane Hunter. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.
An arcane hunter may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the arcane hunter decides which spells to prepare.
Spellbooks: An arcane hunter must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook except for read magic, which all arcane hunters can prepare from memory. An arcane hunter begins play with a spellbook containing three 1st-level arcane hunter spells of his choice and adds detect magic and read magic to his spellbook as 1st–level spells. The arcane hunter also selects a number of additional 1st-level arcane hunter spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to his spellbook. At each new arcane hunter level, he gains two new arcane hunter spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new arcane hunter level) for his spellbook. At any time, an arcane hunter can also add spells found in other spellbooks to his own.
An arcane hunter can learn spells from a wizard’s spellbook, just as a wizard can from an arcane hunter’s spellbook, if the spell is on the wizard’s spell list. The spells learned must be on the arcane hunter spell list, as normal. An alchemist can learn formulae from a arcane hunter’s spellbook, if the spells are also on the alchemist spell list. An arcane hunter cannot learn spells from an alchemist. An arcane hunter can learn spells from another arcane hunter’s spellbook.
Favored Enemy (Su): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the arcane hunter only gains his 1st favored enemy. The arcane hunter gains no additional favored enemies and the bonuses granted by this ability do not increase as the arcane hunter gains levels.
Hunter’s Weapon (Ex): At 1st level, an arcane archer begins play with a hunter’s weapon at no cost. A hunter’s weapon is a family heirloom, handed down through the generations. This weapon is always masterwork quality, but is not made of any special material. An arcane hunter’s weapon is different form those of its type, and through special training, only he knows how to use it properly. All other creatures are considered not proficient when they attempt to wield an arcane hunter’s weapon and take a –4 penalty on all attack rolls.
Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, an arcane hunter gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. This ability replaces wild empathy.
Combat Style Feats: This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the arcane hunter must select a combat style that compliments his hunter’s weapon. For example, if an arcane hunter’s weapon is a longsword, he must choose either the Two Weapon or Weapon and Shield combats style, while an arcane hunter with a longbow as his hunter’s weapon must choose the Archery combat style.
Magical Aptitude: At 2nd level, an arcane hunter gains Arcane Aptitude as a bonus feat.
Favored Terrain (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that an arcane hunter gains his 1st favored terrain at 3rd level, and his 2nd favored terrain at 13th level. An arcane hunter gains no additional favored terrains.
Arcane Hunter’s Bond (Su): At 4th level, an arcane hunter forms a bond with either a familiar or his hunter’s weapon. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed. The first is a bond with a familiar of his choice. This ability functions like wizard’s familiar ability (which is part of the Arcane Bond class feature), except that the arcane hunter's effective wizard level is equal to his arcane hunter level –3.
An arcane hunter’s familiar has the following additional changes.
Eye of the Beast (Su): The arcane hunter has an empathic link with his familiar to a 1 mile distance. The arcane hunter can communicate empathically with the familiar. If the arcane hunter closes his eyes and concentrates as a full-round action, he can see through its eyes as well. Because of the link's limited nature, only general emotions can be shared, while all that the familiar sees is seek in stark color and detail by the arcane hunter. The arcane hunter has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces empathic link.
In addition, the familiar gains one of the following abilities, as determined by its master’s hunter’s weapon. If his hunter’s weapon is a melee weapon, his familiar gains the Flanking Ally ability. If his hunter’s weapon is a ranged or thrown weapon, the familiar gains the Spot for the Shot ability. Either of these abilities replaces the Speak with Master and Scry on Familiar abilities.
Flanking Ally (Ex): The arcane hunter can use his familiar to flank a single target for 1 round. The arcane hunter gains a +2 flanking bonus to all melee attacks made against the target during that round. The arcane hunter can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier.
Spotter for the Shot (Ex): The arcane hunter can use his familiar to distract a single target and deny that target cover for 1 round, even if the target is under cover. The arcane hunter can then his lob ranged weapons or ammunition over cover or bounce them off of different obstacles towards the target as part of a full attack action. This difficult shot is made with a –4 penalty to his attack roll and a –30 ft. penalty to the weapon’s range. If the attack hits, it deal double damage. At 12th level, these penalties improve to a –2 penalty to the attack roll and -15 ft. penalty to range.
The second option is to form a bond with his hunter’s weapon. An arcane hunter gains Weapon Focus with his hunter’s weapon as a bonus feat. He also gains a +2 competence bonus to his CMB when making disarm, grapple, or sunder combat maneuvers, and to his CMD when defending against such maneuvers while wielding his hunter’s weapon. In addition, an arcane hunter can alter the physical properties of his hunter’s weapon, enabling it to bypass damage reduction of one the following types: bludgeoning, cold iron, piercing, silver, or slashing. This effect only functions for him and once chosen, it cannot be changed until he prepares his spells the following day. The affected weapon still inflicts damage of its normal type and its hardness and hit points are unchanged. This affect lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to his arcane hunter level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
An arcane hunter can add additional magic abilities to his bonded hunter’s weapon as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. Otherwise, he can add additional magic abilities by spending the appropriate amount of money to have it enchanted.
If a bonded hunter’s weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the arcane hunter prepares his spells. If the bonded hunter’s weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per arcane hunter’s level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. An arcane hunter can designate an existing magic weapon as his bonded item, as long as it is the same type as his hunter’s weapon. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded hunter’s weapon.
This ability replaces hunter’s bond.
Enhanced Weapon (Su): At 5th level, when an arcane hunter wields, throws, or fires a nonmagical version of his hunter’s weapon (or his bonded hunter’s weapon) during combat it becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the arcane hunter need not spend gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an arcane hunter’s magic weapon only functions for him.
In addition, the arcane hunter's weapon gains a number of additional qualities as he gains additional levels. The elemental, elemental burst, and hunter related qualities can be changed once per day, or when the arcane hunter prepares spells after 8 hours of rest.
At 10th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains one of the following elemental themed weapon qualities: corrosive, flaming, frost, or shock. These qualities improve to corrosive burst, flaming burst, icy burst, or shocking burst at 17th level.
At 15th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains either the keen (melee) or distance (ranged or throwing) weapon quality.
At 20th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains one of the following weapon qualities: advancing, defiant, stalking, or wounding.
The bonuses granted by this ability apply as normal to weapons that have been enhanced with this ability. Only the larger enhancement bonus applies. Duplicate abilities do not stack.
These bonuses can be also added to a magic hunter’s weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5. However, doing so consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier and are added to any properties the hunter’s weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. The hunter’s weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added to a magic hunter’s weapon. An arcane hunter can only enhance one hunter’s weapon (magical or nonmagical) in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.
This ability replaces 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th favored enemy.
Medium Armor (Ex): At 7th level, an arcane hunter gains proficiency with medium armor. An arcane hunter can cast arcane hunter spells while wearing medium armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane hunter wearing heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.
Hunter’s Strike (Su): At 8th level, an arcane hunter gains the ability to deliver either a touch or area spell with his hunter’s weapon. If his hunter’s weapon is a melee weapon, he can deliver a spell from his arcane hunter’s spell list with the range of “touch” through his hunter’s weapon as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, an arcane hunter can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Alternatively, if his hunter’s weapon is a ranged weapon, he can place an area spell upon a missile or thrown weapon. When the missile fired or the weapon is thrown, the spell's area is centered where the missile or weapon lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the arcane hunter to use the weapon’s range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane hunter can make one free ranged attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting the casting. The missile must be fired or weapon thrown during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the missile or weapon misses, the spell is wasted.
This ability replaces 2nd favored terrain.
Terrain Stride (Su): At 9th level, an arcane hunter can step into a land feature such as a tree, a boulder, or a stream, as determined by his favored terrains, and magically infuse himself with it. Once within this feature, the arcane hunter you can teleport from that particular feature to another feature of the same kind. The effect lasts until the arcane hunter exits the feature, or after a number of minutes have passed equal to the arcane hunter’s level, whichever comes first. Each transport is a full-round action. Terrain stride has a transport range of 1,500 feet within the arcane hunter’s favored terrain, and only 500 feet when outside of it. This ability otherwise functions like the tree stride spell. The arcane hunter can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his intelligence modifier.
Deadly Strike (Su): In lieu of his regular attacks, once per day, an arcane hunter of 18th level or higher can make a single attack roll with his hunter’s weapon (melee or ranged weapon) against each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane hunter level he has earned. Each attack uses the arcane hunter’s primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single attack. This ability replaces 4th favored terrain.
ARCANE HUNTER SPELL LIST
Insightful minds gain access to the following spells.
1st-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—abundant ammunition, adjuring step, alarm, ant haul, anticipate peril ,aspect of the falcon, blend, bowstaff, burning hands, call animal, calm animals, charm animal, cloak of shade, compel hostility, comprehend languages, dancing lantern, deadeye’s lore, detect aberration, detect animals or plants, detect magic, detect poison, detect snares and traps, diagnose disease, endure elements, entangle, expeditious retreat, feather fall, feather step, gravitybow, hide from animals, horn of pursuit, hunter’s howl, ironbeard, jump, keen senses, keep watch, know the enemy, lead blades, liberating command, longshot, longstrider, mage hand, magic fang, mount, negate aroma, obscuring mist, pass without trace, read magic, residual tracking, shield, shock shield, shocking grasp, speak with animals, summon minor ally, summon nature’s ally I, sun metal, tireless pursuit, true strike, unerring weapon, unprepared combatant, whispering lore.
2nd-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—accelerate poison, acid arrow, acute senses, allfood, animal aspect, animal messenger, ant haul (communal), arrow eruption, aspect of the bear, badger’s ferocity, barksin, bear’s endurance, blood transcription, bloodhound, brow gasher, cat’s grace, chameleon stride, create treasure map, cure light wounds, darkness, darkvision, delay poison, eagle eye, effortless armor, endure elements (communal), flaming sphere, forest friend, frigid touch, glide, groundswell, guiding star, gust of wind, hold animal, levitate, lockjaw, owl’s wisdom, perceive cues, protective spirit, reloading hands, resist energy, returning weapon, ricochet shot, scorching ray, shatter, slipstream, speak with plants, spider climb, stone call, summon nature’s ally II, warding weapon, wartrain mount, web shelter, web, whispering wind, wilderness soldier.
3rd-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—ablative barrier, animal aspect (greater), beast shape I, blessing of the mole, blood biography, burrow, burst of speed, campfire wall, campfire wall, cloak of winds, cloak of winds, companion mind link, cure moderate wounds, darkvision (communal), delay poison (communal), diminish plants, dispel magic, feather step (mass), fireball, flame arrow, haste, heroism, hide campsite, hunter’s eye, instant enemy, keen edge, lightning bolt, locate weakness, locate weakness, magic fang (greater), neutralize poison, nondetection, plant growth, protection from energy, rage, reduce animal, remove disease, repel vermin, resist energy (communal), returning weapon (communal), snare, soothing word, spike growth, strong jaw, summon nature’s ally III, tireless pursuers, tree shape, venomous bolt, versatile weapon, ward of the season, water walk, wind wall, wind wall.
4th-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—aspect of the stag, beast shape II, bloody claws, bow spirit, command plants, cure serious wounds, darkvision (greater), find quarry, fire trap, freedom of movement, ghost wolf, grove of respite, hallucinatory terrain, ice storm, named bullet, nondetection (communal), protection from energy (communal), share senses, shout, solid fog, stone shape, stoneskin, summon nature’s ally IV, terrain bond, wall of fire, wall of ice, water walk (communal).
5th-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—absorb toxicity, animal growth, aspect of the wolf, beast shape III, blessing of the salamander, break enchantment, commune with nature, fickle winds, fire snake, geyser, hostile juxtaposition, life bubble, lightning arc, mage’s faithful hound, plant shape I, raise animal companion, summon nature’s ally V, transmute mud to rock, transmute rock to mud, tree stride, wreath of blades.
6th-Level Arcane Hunter Spells—beast shape IV, cold ice strike, conjure black pudding, contagious flame, control water, dispel magic (greater), guards and wards, heroism (greater), legend lore, move earth, named bullet (greater), plant shape II, sirocco, summon nature’s ally VI, undeath ward.
Table: Arcane Hunter
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 1st favored enemy, hunter’s weapon, scribe scroll, track 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Combat style feat, magical aptitude 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Endurance, 1st favored terrain 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Arcane hunter’s bond 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Enhanced weapon (magic) 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Combat style feat 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Medium armor 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Hunter’s strike, swift tracker 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Evasion, terrain stride 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Combat style feat, enhanced weapon (elemental) 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Quarry 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Camouflage 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 2nd favored terrain 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Combat style feat 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Enhanced weapon (keen or distance) 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Improved evasion 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Hide in plain sight 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Combat style feat, deadly strike 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Improved quarry 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Enhanced weapon (hunter), master hunter 5 5 5 5 5 5
I was looking at the enhance weapon ability and I'm not seeing the bonus to hit and damage scaling. Is that intentional?
If the +# is supposed to scale, I'm not seeing where it says that.
In the case that it doesn't, I have issue with that. The Monk Magus and Bard all have means for supplimenting their 3/4 BAB in combat that either consume resources or require a special circumstance. Favored enemy is already snipped pretty hard, and without an increase in to-hit I'm not seeing enhance weapon keeping up with the curve.
I would suggest scaling Enhance Weapon on the levels of Favored Enemy and mixing the two abilities together. Have your enhance weapon bonuses, but then also give half of the favored enemy bonuses that the ranger would normally get. If you're taking away their full BAB they do, as a ranger archetype, still need some legit means of keeping up with their ranger buddies, and I'm not entirely sure the action economy given up by spellcasting is gonna do it.
'cause Magus's got a better spell list and they start rockin pretty hard at level 2, whereas hunter here doesn't start rockin until his spell arrows start flying at level 8.
An arcane hunter can learn spells from a wizard’s spellbook, just as a wizard can from an arcane hunter’s spellbook, if the spell is on the wizard’s spell list. The spells learned must be on the arcane hunter spell list, as normal. An alchemist can learn formulae from a arcane hunter’s spellbook, if the spells are also on the alchemist spell list. An arcane hunter cannot learn spells from an alchemist. An arcane hunter can learn spells from another arcane hunter’s spellbook.
Add the ability for magi to learn spells from the arcane hunter's spellbook, if the spell are also on the magus spell list.
Magical Aptitude: At 2nd level, an arcane hunter gains Arcane Aptitude as a bonus feat.
I imagine you want Magical Aptitude as a bonus feat, according to the PFSRD Arcane Aptitude is a 3rd party feat that boosts the DC of spells cast from wands.
I also agree with what Iorthol posted above.
Also what about imbuing spells from scrolls (of the correct type) into arrows that activate the spell when fired; similar to ability to channel your spells into the arrows, but being able to prepare some in advance (for gold/time cost and at lower CL)?
He gets the +2 from 1st Enemy, and if he chooses Arcane Hunter's Bond (weap[on) there's another +1 from Weapon Focus.
Remember, Enhance Weapon does not spend resources to enhance the weapon (like Divine Bond, Arcane Pool, etc.), its on all the time. So, if we decide to increase the +1 bonus (I would suggest +1 at 5th, +1 every 5 levels therafter) to max +4 at 20th, then the other abilities can also be added. However, you are then getting a weapon such as a +4 flaming burst keen stalking longsword (equivalent of a +9 weapon) for free. AND there is no favored enemy restriction, so it works against EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. Fair or not? I suppose you are swapping this ability for four favored enemies.
Another option would simply be having the 1st favored enemy scale, +2 at 1st, +4 at 9th, and +6 at 17th. It's limited to 1 favored enemy, but that's the breaks.
We have to be very careful with the balance of granting essentially a permanenet magical weapon to the MCA, that works against everything.
As to the scroll thing Alfray, we could add that, Essentially, thats similar to the Hunter's Strike ability, but then w tweak it to also allow similar spells to be placed on the weapons from scrolls. And yes that should be MAgical Aptitude, I was looking at both and entered the wrong one into the ability. :D
I think enhance weapon is fine the way it is. Though the bit about how exactly it stacks with an already magical weapon is slightly confusing. Say I have a +2 weapon and am level 10, my understanding is they would stack completely and give me a +3 weapon with either flaming, shocking, corrosive or frost.
It stacks with an already magical "hunter's weapon", not just any magical weapon. In essense, If the weapon is a +3 shocking burst hunter's weapon already, he could add definat to it to make it a +1 defiant shocking burst weapon. Adding the properties consumes the remaing bounuses on the weapon, and can stack up to a +5 weapon total.
I your example, it would become a +1 flaming/shock/corrosive/or frost weapon, not a +3 laming/shock/corrosive/or frost weapon.
perhaps an example should be included just to make sure there is no confusion about how it works?
I was looking at the enhance weapon ability and I'm not seeing the bonus to hit and damage scaling. Is that intentional?
If the +# is supposed to scale, I'm not seeing where it says that.In the case that it doesn't, I have issue with that. The Monk Magus and Bard all have means for supplimenting their 3/4 BAB in combat that either consume resources or require a special circumstance. Favored enemy is already snipped pretty hard, and without an increase in to-hit I'm not seeing enhance weapon keeping up with the curve.
I would suggest scaling Enhance Weapon on the levels of Favored Enemy and mixing the two abilities together. Have your enhance weapon bonuses, but then also give half of the favored enemy bonuses that the ranger would normally get. If you're taking away their full BAB they do, as a ranger archetype, still need some legit means of keeping up with their ranger buddies, and I'm not entirely sure the action economy given up by spellcasting is gonna do it.
'cause Magus's got a better spell list and they start rockin pretty hard at level 2, whereas hunter here doesn't start rockin until his spell arrows start flying at level 8.
This was what I was trying to ask about. Elghinn said it does not scale - it's not based from the magus' arcane pool (like I expected), but the arcane archer's imbue arrow - I think, I didn't go back and read the explanation before I typed this.
Not quite, AinvarG!
1) Enhance Weapon is based on the Arcane Archer's Enhance Arrow ability.
2) Hunter's Strike is based on both the Magus's Spellstrike ability (melee weapon) and the Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrows ability (ranged weapon).
3) Deadly Strike is based on the Arcane Archer's Hail of Arrows Ability.
I've also reworked a few abilities for clarification.
Favored Enemy (Su): This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name, except that the arcane hunter gains only one favored enemy.
Hunter’s Weapon (Ex): At 1st level, an arcane archer begins play with a hunter’s weapon at no cost. A hunter’s weapon is a family heirloom, handed down through the generations. This weapon is always masterwork quality, but is not made of any special material.
Enhanced Weapon (Su): At 5th level, when an arcane hunter wields, throws, or fires a nonmagical version of his hunter’s weapon (or his bonded hunter’s weapon) during combat it becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the arcane hunter need not spend gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an arcane hunter’s magic weapon only functions for him.
In addition, the arcane hunter's weapon gains a number of additional qualities as he gains additional levels. The elemental, elemental burst, and hunter related qualities can be changed once per day, or when the arcane hunter prepares spells after 8 hours of rest.
At 10th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains one of the following elemental themed weapon qualities: corrosive, flaming, frost, or shock. These qualities improve to corrosive burst, flaming burst, icy burst, or shocking burst at 17th level.
At 15th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains either the keen (melee) or distance (ranged or throwing) weapon quality.
At 20th level, an arcane hunter’s nonmagical hunter’s weapon gains one of the following weapon qualities: advancing, defiant, stalking, or wounding.
The bonuses granted by this ability apply as normal to weapons that have been enhanced with this ability. Only the larger enhancement bonus applies. Duplicate abilities do not stack.
This ability replaces 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th favored enemy.
So, any thoughts on the spell list? When I set levels for spells I did the following:
1) If a spell was only on the ranger list, I kept it at that level.
2) If a spell was on both the druid and ranger lists, I went with the druid's level designation.
3) If a spell was on both the ranger and wizard list, I went with the wizard's level designation.
4) Wizard spells were kept at their normal level.
looks pretty good to me, though I am no expert on custom spell lists, your criterion for what level spells went was good, only issue there might be is that he can get ranger specific spells at a lower level than an actual ranger can.
True, but he's also a 6th level caster, only a step away from a druid's spellcasting. He's now a partial druid caster instead of a ranger caster (1/2 caster). It wuld be just like with the 1/2 caster version of the MCa, he couldn't cast 1st level wizard spells until 4th, that's just the nature of the 1/2 caster vs. a hybrid or full caster. It's really not an issue, as he is a ranger, and then its balanced with placing the other ranger spells at their druid equivalent levels.
I just figured that I should mention it, though raider should probably be consulted on the spell list, he seems to be the resident caster expert.
If anything, he'll have issues with spell choices vs. what levels they are at.
I'm going to let this one sit unto tomorrow afternoon or so, then if there is nothing further we will move on to the next one.
Any restrictions on what may be chosen a your Hunter's Weapon? Can you try and abuse it by selecting a Masterwork Composite (+3) Longbow, for example - as that's worth 700 gp.
Should we consider offering a selection of cantrips (from the wizard and druids list) or not?
Otherwise the rest of the MCA seems solidly built.
my job has turned. so if you want to skip my next one for a different MCA, i would like to be able to put input the class also i feel bad for having one after the other
Any restrictions on what may be chosen a your Hunter's Weapon? Can you try and abuse it by selecting a Masterwork Composite (+3) Longbow, for example - as that's worth 700 gp.
Should we consider offering a selection of cantrips (from the wizard and druids list) or not?
Otherwise the rest of the MCA seems solidly built.
throw a "up to the cost of 75gp" at the end of it simple fix
Hmm, a restriction may be a good idea. I'd say 100 or 125 gp though, just for some of thsoe crazies who want some exotic strange weapon.
"The base cost of a hunter’s weapon gained at 1st level cannot exceed 100 gp in value (the masterwork quality is not calculated into this amount)."
@Cantrips: No, I think we are fine the way it is. All he needs is read magic and detect magic moved to 1st level.
Kyras, we'll move to the next one in the cue if you're busy so you can be involved. :D.
So coming up later today, if there are no further issues, tweaks, or suggestions, will be Toaster's Zen Mystery/Archetype? We'll postpone OSW's Symbiote Gunner as we at MCP are working on things behind the scenes and don't want to add to our workload unnecessarily (Unless you want to OSW?). I'll let you know Toaster when you can throw your stuff up. We'll give this one until the afternoon.
So should we be starting to work on new MCA's as the backlog is basically gone? or should we focus on the existing MCA's on the site that are flagged for review?
Hmm, a restriction may be a good idea. I'd say 100 or 125 gp though, just for some of thsoe crazies who want some exotic strange weapon.
"The base cost of a hunter’s weapon gained at 1st level cannot exceed 100 gp in value (the masterwork quality is not calculated into this amount)."
@Cantrips: No, I think we are fine the way it is. All he needs is read magic and detect magic moved to 1st level.
Kyras, we'll move to the next one in the cue if you're busy so you can be involved. :D.
So coming up later today, if there are no further issues, tweaks, or suggestions, will be Toaster's Zen Mystery/Archetype? We'll postpone OSW's Symbiote Gunner as we at MCP are working on things behind the scenes and don't want to add to our workload unnecessarily (Unless you want to OSW?). I'll let you know Toaster when you can throw your stuff up. We'll give this one until the afternoon.
Technically it's just Arcanemnuses' creation, I just helped. Also, just a quick thing, it referred to Arcane Archer under hunter's weapon.
edit: there was also a zen bloodline as well.
@ Toaster
1) I'll fix the Arcane Archer gaff.
2) If the Zen thing is Arcanemuses' then we should let it be until he actually joins us on the thread. If that's what he wants to do.
@ Browman
We have the following in the cue currently.
1) Remorseless Assassin (Kyras) - postponed until he can join us
2) Symbiote Gunner (OSW)- postponed until OSW is free to do it
3) Zen Mystery/Archetype (Toaster) - postponed until the actual creator decides to join us on the thread.
4) Heretic Theologist (Bardess) - Looks like Heretic Theologist is up next.
Bardess, we'll need your HT posted ASAP. :D
These I've added to the cue, since they were asked about a while back.
5) Arcane Sneak (Byrdology)
6) Elemental Warden (Elghinn)
Now, as to posting new ones or going back and reworking the "unfinalized" ones on the wiki, what does everyone think?
Many of the wiki ones have just been created and not gone through much reviewing or tweaking yet. So it might be good, since we've got a good gang of active contributors on the thread currently to use that brain/creative power to work trhough the wiki backlog.
Thoughts? New ones, or review the unfinalized ones on the wiki?
Personally I think cleaning up the ones on the wiki would be better, always looks good when all the stuff you have posted there is completed.
Well, if others are willing, I think it would be much appreciated by us at MCP (speaking for myself only) to get some help getting the unfinished MCAs on the wiki closer to the finished stage. With us working on the next PDF, and "us" only being 5, there's alot of MCAs that need to be gone over. :D
Finishing up the MCAs on the wiki seems like the most sensible course of action.
Arcanemuses actually handed the thing off to me (he has had posting issues on the boards, in fact he already tried to post it here but it didn't work). I just didn't want to credit for his initial idea, even if I revised a lot of it.
Then where are you wanting to go with it, Toaster? Do you have an MCA for the Bloodline and Mystery? OR were you just wanting us to take a lok at it for possible use with other MCAs?
Then where are you wanting to go with it, Toaster? Do you have an MCA for the Bloodline and Mystery? OR were you just wanting us to take a lok at it for possible use with other MCAs?
I think the mystery is practically an MCA in it's own right, although a poster on the thread pointed out that a worshiper of Iori might prefer wisdom as a casting stat, so I have been mulling over an archetype that changes casting to wisdom and gets some kinda of a lesser ki pool in curse form(although I haven't thought of a drawback yet.
here's what I got.Zen Mystery by Arcanemuses
Deity: Irori, Sun Wukong
Class Skills: An oracle with the zen mystery adds acrobatics, perception, and stealth to their list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: (2nd) feather fall (4th) spider climb (6th) haste
(8th) resilient sphere (10th) break enchantment(12th) heroism greater
(14th) ethereal jaunt (16th) mind blank (18th) mage’s disjunction
Revelations: An oracle with the zen mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Zen Fists: Your fists harden into living weapons. You gain the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature. The oracles effective monk level to determine damage for their Unarmed strike is equal to their oracle level -4 (minimum 1).
Zen Aloofness: You gain a better sense of surrounding danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
Zen Tread: The oracle gains an increase in speed equal to a monk of her oracle level. She can use this ability a number of minutes per day equal to their Oracle level in one minute increments. A monk with the lame curse may not select this revelation.
Zen Grace: A number of times per day equal to their oracle level, and oracle can as a swift action grant themselves a +20 divine bonus to acrobatics checks for one round. This bonus cannot stack with bonuses granted by spending ki points.
Zen Maneuvers: An oracle with this revelation may add their Cha Mod to all CMB checks.
Cleansing Bloodflow: The oracle’s vital fluids are able to fight off poisons. At 1st level they receive a +2 divine bonus on saves vs poison. At 4th level this bonus increase to +4. At 8th level it increases to +6. And at 12th level the oracle gains immunity to all poisons.
Meridian Strike: With a single touch you can stun a foe. You make a single melee touch attack. If successful, the target gains the stunned condition for one round. The target is allowed a Fort save DC 10 + Cha Mod + Half the oracle’s level. A successful save negates the effect. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half their oracle level.
Zen Spirit: The oracle gains Spell Resistance 10 +1 for every oracle level they possess. They can use this ability for 10 minutes per day for every level of oracle they possess in 10 minute increments.
Zen Weaponry: The oracle gains proficiency with all weapons with the monk weapon quality.
Zen Fortune: When making a fortitude, reflex, or will save, an oracle may replace the normal ability modifier with her Charisma Modifier. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to their oracle level.
Final Revelation
Enlightened Perfection: Upon reaching 20th level, the oracle becomes a zen master. Free from the constraints of reality, they become immune to compulsions and mind-influencing effects. Additionally, they become immune to fatigue and exhaustion.
So this would work for a Oracle/Monk MCA. May behoove you to create one. :D Then make this a complimentary mystery. Likely swap in certain Monk abilities that are not included in the mystery, such as a lesser flurry perhaps, partial ki pool, AC bonus, etc.
I feel like Zen Spirit is a little to good for a mystery SR30 for 200 minutes is essentially SR 30 all the time except for when it helps you to not have it on. Making it 10+ 1/2 level or on all the time would be better.
So this would work for a Oracle/Monk MCA. May behoove you to create one. :D Then make this a complimentary mystery. Likely swap in certain Monk abilities that are not included in the mystery, such as a lesser flurry perhaps, partial ki pool, AC bonus, etc.
hmmm, how about...
While most oracles let their words and action influence the world, the Open Eyed Oracle allows the world in. As seekers of enlightenment, you will most often find these Oracles in monasteries and other environments conducive to wisdom. In a golarion setting such oracles are almost always followers of Iori and take the Zen Mystery (see below).
Open Eyed Oracle
Primary:Oracle
Secondary:Monk
skills: 4 + int modifer. The Open Eyed Oracle may select up to 3 skills from the monk list to add to their own.
Diminished Spellcasting: An open eyed oracle gains one less spell known and spell per day every level.
Power of Awareness: An Open Eyed Oracle uses Wisdom instead of Charsima to determine the effects of her Spells and Mystery class features. In addition receives a ki pool as the monk class feature, with an effective monk level equal to 1/2 her Open Eyed Oracle level. If she has the Zen Mystery, she may treat her effective monk level as her oracle level-2, for the purposes of Mystery Powers.
Recommended Mystery: Zen
Zen Mystery by Arcanemuses
Deity: Irori, Sun Wukong
Class Skills: An oracle with the zen mystery adds acrobatics, perception, and stealth to their list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: (2nd) feather fall (4th) spider climb (6th) haste
(8th) resilient sphere (10th) break enchantment(12th) heroism greater
(14th) ethereal jaunt (16th) mind blank (18th) mage’s disjunction
Revelations: An oracle with the zen mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Zen Fists: Your fists harden into living weapons. You gain the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature. The oracles effective monk level to determine damage for their Unarmed strike is equal to their oracle level -4 (minimum 1).
Zen Aloofness: You gain a better sense of surrounding danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
Zen Tread: The oracle gains an increase in speed equal to a monk of her oracle level. She can use this ability a number of minutes per day equal to their Oracle level in one minute increments. A monk with the lame curse may not select this revelation.
Zen Grace: A number of times per day equal to their oracle level, and oracle can as a swift action grant themselves a +20 divine bonus to acrobatics checks for one round. This bonus cannot stack with bonuses granted by spending ki points.
Zen Maneuvers: An oracle with this revelation may add their Cha Mod to all CMB checks.
Cleansing Bloodflow: The oracle’s vital fluids are able to fight off poisons. At 1st level they receive a +2 divine bonus on saves vs poison. At 4th level this bonus increase to +4. At 8th level it increases to +6. And at 12th level the oracle gains immunity to all poisons.
Meridian Strike: With a single touch you can stun a foe. You make a single melee touch attack. If successful, the target gains the stunned condition for one round. The target is allowed a Fort save DC 10 + Cha Mod + Half the oracle’s level. A successful save negates the effect. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half their oracle level.
Zen Spirit: The oracle gains Spell Resistance 10 +1 for every oracle level they possess. They can use this ability for 10 minutes per day for every level of oracle they possess in 10 minute increments.
Zen Weaponry: The oracle gains proficiency with all weapons with the monk weapon quality.
Zen Fortune: When making a fortitude, reflex, or will save, an oracle may replace the normal ability modifier with her Charisma Modifier. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to their oracle level.
Final Revelation
Enlightened Perfection: Upon reaching 20th level, the oracle becomes a zen master. Free from the constraints of reality, they become immune to compulsions and mind-influencing effects. Additionally, they become immune to fatigue and exhaustion.