Hi everybody.. i've a question about the druid wild shape (my gm need an help with a player that want to play a druid melee).
I start with an example to verify that i've understand everything.
The PC is druid lvl6.. she can trasform in a Large animal as beast shape II
The druid BAB is 4 and his strenght is 16 base +2 (object)
She choose Tiger.. let's calculate:
She get the 2 claws attack and the bite attack, low light vision, scent, pounce, grab
here's the questions:
- bonus attack: she uses her bab (4) + her strength (16base +2obj +4beast shapeII) (6) = +10 (+ eventually weapon focus for that natural arrack)?
- damage: each attack use the base dice of the natural attack + the druid new form strength??
so claw 2d4 + +6 - Bite 2d6 +6
CMB : BAB (4) + strength (6) + size modifier (large= +1) = 11??
CMD : 21 ??
Skill: all her own skills with no other bonus
Saves: all her saves bonus
AC: she have not the wild enchantment on her armor so (with base dex 14)
she has a ring of protection +1 and an amulet of natural armor +1
ac: 10 + 1 (dex: 14-2=12) +1(ring) + 5 natural armor (1+4)= 17??
Is this thing i've written correct :) ??
Hi everybody.. i've a question about the druid wild shape (my gm need an help with a player that want to play a druid melee).
I start with an example to verify that i've understand everything.The PC is druid lvl6.. she can trasform in a Large animal as beast shape II
The druid BAB is 4 and his strenght is 16 base +2 (object)
She choose Tiger.. let's calculate:
She get the 2 claws attack and the bite attack, low light vision, scent, pounce, grab
here's the questions:
- bonus attack: she uses her bab (4) + her strength (16base +2obj +4beast shapeII) (6) = +10 (+ eventually weapon focus for that natural arrack)?
- damage: each attack use the base dice of the natural attack + the druid new form strength??
so claw 2d4 + +6 - Bite 2d6 +6
CMB : BAB (4) + strength (6) + size modifier (large= +1) = 11??
CMD : 21 ??Skill: all her own skills with no other bonus
Saves: all her saves bonusAC: she have not the wild enchantment on her armor so (with base dex 14)
she has a ring of protection +1 and an amulet of natural armor +1ac: 10 + 1 (dex: 14-2=12) +1(ring) + 5 natural armor (1+4)= 17??
Is this thing i've written correct :) ??
As far as I know, the damage is based on the animal; I believe that a tiger claws do 1d8 each and the bite does 2d6. Your new strength would modify that.
Everything else looks correct at first glance.
oh yes it's 1d8..
thank you.. so i've understand :)
As far as I know, the damage is based on the animal; I believe that a tiger claws do 1d8 each and the bite does 2d6. Your new strength would modify that.
Everything else looks correct at first glance.
AC would be 16 (-1 for being Large) :)
uhm.. math for AC:
Base 10
Dex 14 - 2 from Beast Shape II 1
Ring of protection +1 1
NA 1 (amulet) +4 (beast shape II) 5
--------
Total 17
If i've understand correctly subjects of a polymorph spell modify strength and dex with the Spell modifiers (if any)
You also apply the regular modifiers to attack, AC, CMB/CMD, Fly, and Stealth for being a certain size, in addition to the size modifiers to STR/DEX given by the spells.
For a Large creature, that's -1 to attack and AC, +1 to CMB and CMD, -2 to Fly, and -4 to Stealth.
sure
in my CMB and CMB calculation i considered that:
CMB : BAB 4 str 6 +1 size (large)
CMD : 10 + CMB = 21
accordingly with the size modifiers in the core manual (p.198)
large +1
huge +2
garg +4
colo +8
I missed the penalties to fly and stealth you're right :)
OMG! so the AC is 16.. -2 dex and -1 AC for size i was wrong again
And -1 to attack for being Large.
Note that while the tiger is nice, you should really be turning into the dire tiger, which is also large, but has slightly better damage.
2d4 base claw damage instead of 1d8, that's the difference.
Saves: all her saves bonus
Your DEX have changed, and so your Reflex save will change too (by -1).
sob sob sob :((
Analisy (part 2): as well i read all the options i've new questions so be patience.
So we calculated CMB: 11.. GRAB gives +4 on CMB to enter and manteine a grapple.
3 attacks: 3 grabs (with tiger) with a CMB +15 to enter and continue
while i'm the grappler, as i read in grapple rules, i've 3 options:
1) move at half mov me and the grappled creature
2) PIN
3) attack with ONE natural attack at choice
Example.
(initiative won by me)
round one: Pounce and full attack something medium (tiger is large and atm i have not powerful shape)
i have 3 attacks.. what happen if i enter grapple with my first attack?? can i finish my full attack for that round??
In the creature grappled turn she chooses to break grapple but fails against my CMD
round two: (already grappled) I start my round rolling for going on with my grapple and I beat the creature CMD. With this action i decide to attack with my bite (the best attack) at the same time in this round
I have RAKE and I can attack with 2 claws too.
- last but not least i've a question about the wild shape -
now with the druid's changes to wild shape you basically play with your bonus on attacks, CMB, CMD modified by The Beast Shape used with your wild shape ability and the size modifiers.
So it's easy to play: you prepare ahead all your stats for EACH size you can trasform in and finally apply the situational modifiers for the creature abilities (in my example the GRAB bonus).
So i start to think: Can a Druid wildshape in the form she prefer (and she can trsform in) regardless of the bestiary examples?
The only thing that changes really is the base damage of natural attacks.
Take the tiger.. suppose to use Beast Shape III and create a tiger HUGE.
The few differences in this trasformation will be:
claw 1d8 -> 2d6
bite 2d6 -> 3d6
+2 strength -2 dex for the spell, more natural armor but malus to ac for dex and size.
But these stats would be the same if the druid trasforms herself in a stegosauros..(but trip instead of grab, obviously)
What you think about this?? What about a HUGE ant? a druid in the form of a HUGE ANT has the same stats of a druid in the form of a stegosaurus
with excpetion of the kind of natural attacks and abilities of the form.
I hope to have exaplained what i mean.. sorry my english is not my mother language :)
The rules suggest you're only supposed to change into normal-sized versions of animals.
"Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature’s type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature." (Page 212)
ah oki.. it would be nice however! :)
what about my first question??
my turn: pounce + 3 attacks with grab. If the first grab attack is succesfull can i finish my attacks??
Or, after the first positive grab, am I considered immediatly grappled??
I've always found grappling confusing.
However, the rules say that while you have the grappled condition you can perform any action that doesn't involve both hands, including making full attacks. So even if you chose to grapple on your first attack, there's no reason to think you couldn't continue attacking.
I've always found grappling confusing.
However, the rules say that while you have the grappled condition you can perform any action that doesn't involve both hands, including making full attacks. So even if you chose to grapple on your first attack, there's no reason to think you couldn't continue attacking.
That isn't completely correct. Maintaining a grapple and being the object of a grapple are two different situations. When in charge of a grapple you need to take a standard action (barring feats or abilities that adjust action cost) to maintain the grappled condition on the target. You may do damage as part of that standard action, you cannot full attack and maintain a grapple however.
@ OP, the easiest way to deal with the situation as you get a free grapple on your attack is to use that attack last (assuming a form without Rake OR better/more attacks than the Rake provides). Make both claw attacks, resolve those (as well as a possible rend depending on your form), then resolve the bite attack and grapple before the end of your round. This gets you your full attack and leaves the opponent grappled (if successful obviously) until your next round. Now when your turn comes around again release the grapple as a free action, do it all again.
Pros: No possible issues with the grapple rules and maintaining your access to full attack actions.
Cons: You lose out on the +5 for maintaining the grapple from the previous round.
And this is why I would only play a druid archetype that loses Wild Shape. :)
And this is why I would only play a druid archetype that loses Wild Shape. :)
I've yet to see an archtype that loses wildshape that is even remotely worth it. It isn't at all complicated if you actually read the rules (which do happen to be a little scattered).