Shadows, flurry of blows and energy drain


Rules Questions


Last session our GM used incorporeal undead - shadow, with 11+ levels of monk. This unnatural creation of sick sadistic mind attacked us 5 times per round and with every hit drained k6 strength. Is it legal? I know that vampire monk can cause level drain only 1 time per round, what about shadows and energy drain?


Forgetting the basic GM Fiat rule, that this shadow can be different b/c he says so....

Based on the stats of the Greater Shadow, I think it is only once per round.

In the Bestiary, the Greater shadow has a +6 BAB but the stat line only shows 1 Strength draining attack per round, no iterative attacks.

Greater Shadow:

Speed fly 40 ft. (good)
Melee incorporeal touch +11 (1d8 Strength)
Special Attacks create spawn (as per shadow), strength damage
STATISTICS
Str —, Dex 20, Con —, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 15
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 24


I believe it's a touch attack so it requires its on standard action...on my phone so cannot get the prd to load so I can quote a rule though

Dark Archive

Drakkiel is correct, it's not a rider on a melee attack it's a special attack all it's own and can only be done once per round.


MC Templar wrote:


In the Bestiary, the Greater shadow has a +6 BAB but the stat line only shows 1 Strength draining attack per round, no iterative attacks.
** spoiler omitted **

Natural attacks don't get iteratives.

Sovereign Court

The ability to make an incorporeal touch attack does appear to in any documentation seem to suggest that it (incorporeal touch) qualifies as a natural attack or for the feat Weapon Focus, thus it would not be subject to the feat Feral Combat Training and would not be able to be used with a Flurry of Blows.

As an aside that doesn't sound like a fun encounter with GM fiat either. A little too much like GM trying to win then everyone enjoying a game.

Grand Lodge

Is the "incorporeal touch" a viable choice for Weapon Focus?

Is it considered a Natural Weapon?


I don't agree with the legality of this. If it were a rider effect, such as a Burn ability that activates every time it hits with a (that is, any) natural attack and had its own Special Ability description, then I'd allow it. But the strength drain isn't a special ability delivered by an attack -- it is the attack. If a shadow monk flurried, it is making a series of unarmed strikes and foregoing the effects of its natural attack.

If a GM finds that his party consistently tears through APL-appropriate encounters, then fine, throw something bigger at them. But to optimize a killer monster and then say "but its CR is legal!" is just playing dishonestly.

Grand Lodge

Maybe possible with Feral Combat Training.


One of the Shadow variants ...

pfsrd wrote:
Shadetouch Shadow (CR +0): Shadetouch shadows are infused with partially real shadowstuff from the Shadow Plane. They treat the Shadow Plane as their home plane (and thus gain the “extraplanar” subtype on the Material Plane). A shadetouch shadow lacks the typical shadow’s incorporeal touch—instead, it possesses two claw attacks that each deal 1d8 points of damage on a hit, in addition to the normal amount of Strength damage shadows inflict.

seems to do Strength damage with every successful hit. By this I'd say that your GM's 'unnatural creation' was legal, if not very nice. I hope he gave a good experience bonus (assuming you survived :-(


It seems like the DM described herein is probably unaware of such a template, and even if he was and built the monk with that template, it's still the maneuver of a douchecanoe.

Dark Archive

I don't see how a shadow's touch attack is a special ability that requires a standard action. Where does it say that?


Victor Zajic wrote:
I don't see how a shadow's touch attack is a special ability that requires a standard action. Where does it say that?

Using a supernatural ability is a Standard Action that does not provoke according to the Actions in Combat table.


wouldn't that make it a CR 14 creature.
Smells like CHeese Dickery to me.

Sovereign Court

Morgen wrote:
The ability to make an incorporeal touch attack doesn't appear...

Blargh.

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