Intelligent items and EGO / price calculations

[Wycen]

I've read the FAQ and a good number of threads with the search function, but after google chrome crashed I gave up and decided to ask something that others have probably asked before.

We acquired an intelligent magic item. In this case a magic staff, Staff of Fire to be exact.

While trying to figure out who could use it, which required reading and comprehending the rules, I ended up questioning the EGO score.

That led to several questions.

The stats of said item:
Staff of Fire
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
INT 18
WIS 11
CHA 16

EGO: ________ the DM listed a number but it doesn't quite compute to me.

Communicates via Speech, with hearing and Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Languages: 5 campaign specific languages

10 ranks of Appraise
10 ranks of Knowledge: Nobility
.
.
.

So, as a Lawful neutral item, any lawfully aligned PC can use it without suffering a negative level.
Correct?

What should its EGO score be? I counted it as 12, unless the base value is higher than I think and thus bumps the EGO up to 13.

Which is linked to Base Magic item value and EGO modifier. The text states: "An item's Ego score is the sum of all of its Ego modifiers plus an additional bonus for the cost of the base magic item (excluding the cost of all of the intelligent item enhancements)". Some of those like skill ranks have associated EGO modifiers so they aren't included. But what about darkvision and other things like that?

Intelligent items can take their own actions. The staff's caster level is 8th, so when the staff fires off a fireball it does so as an 8th level caster. But does it also provide the staff properties so that a 10th level caster could fire off a 10th level fireball and a 20 INT wizard can add 5 to the save DC instead of 4?

And I nearly forgot, does an intelligent item get to add stat modifiers to any skill checks it can make? Are those skills trained?

Hopefully somebody else has already asked and answered these questions.
Thanks

[seebs]

My ruling would be:

A wizard holding the staff can cast a fireball using the wizard's own level or CL 8, whichever is higher, and the wizard's int to set save DC.

The staff can only cast a fireball if it has a power under its intelligent item power set that allows it to do so. It can't activate itself, because it's not a caster with those spells on its spell list.

[james maissen]

Wycen wrote:

Intelligent items can take their own actions. The staff's caster level is 8th, so when the staff fires off a fireball it does so as an 8th level caster. But does it also provide the staff properties so that a 10th level caster could fire off a 10th level fireball and a 20 INT wizard can add 5 to the save DC instead of 4?

And I nearly forgot, does an intelligent item get to add stat modifiers to any skill checks it can make? Are those skills trained?

Hopefully somebody else has already asked and answered these questions.
Thanks

1. If the staff acts then it doesn't benefit from the wielder as they are not utilizing it.

2. The item adds in it's stat modifiers to the skills it uses.

3. Those skills are not trained (as far as I know).

-James

[VRMH]

Wycen wrote:

So, as a Lawful neutral item, any lawfully aligned PC can use it without suffering a negative level.

Correct?

Correct.

Quote:

What should its EGO score be?

• Staff of Fire: 18,950 gp. Ego: +3
• INT 18, Ego: +4
• CHA 16, Ego: +3
• 10 ranks of Appraise, Ego: +2
• 10 ranks of Knowledge: Nobility, Ego +2

Total Ego: 14

Quote:

But what about darkvision and other things like that?

Some properties increase the price but not the Ego of an intelligent item.

Quote:

Intelligent items can take their own actions. The staff's caster level is 8th, so when the staff fires off a fireball it does so as an 8th level caster. But does it also provide the staff properties so that a 10th level caster could fire off a 10th level fireball and a 20 INT wizard can add 5 to the save DC instead of 4?

Yes. Intelligent items can use their own powers, but that changes nothing about how (N)PCs use the item. It's still a Staff of Fire.

Quote:

And I nearly forgot, does an intelligent item get to add stat modifiers to any skill checks it can make?

Yes.

Quote:

Are those skills trained?

Yes. They have actual ranks in that skill, it's not simply a bonus to the check.

[Wycen]

Looks like what I thought; that different people would have different answers, which is fine. And that was something I forgot to break down, whether to use the market price or base cost of the staff. Since the chart says base cost, it is why I counted the EGO lower.

Another thing that seebs brings up, tangentially. Intelligent items usually have an "intelligent item power", which I had assumed was just being a staff of fire. But maybe you get something on the power chart as well.

Of course the DM is final arbiter, and I don't think he wants to make it anymore powerful.

[Jeraa]

Wycen wrote:

Looks like what I thought; that different people would have different answers, which is fine. And that was something I forgot to break down, whether to use the market price or base cost of the staff. Since the chart says base cost, it is why I counted the EGO lower.

For the majority of items, market price and base price are equal.

Quote:

Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp. For many items, the market price equals the base price. Armor, shields, weapons, and items with value independent of their magically enhanced properties add their item cost to the market price. The item cost does not influence the base price (which determines the cost of magic supplies), but it does increase the final market price.

[seebs]

Yeah, there's an ambiguity there. I'd been interpreting "use their own powers" as referring specifically to any powers purchased as part of the intelligent item crafting system, not to the powers the item already has from its base type. But it could be read either way.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

One cool thing about intelligent items is that they can use their own powers, and they use their own actions to do so. This ability extends to all of it's powers, not just the powers gained from the tables associated with creating an intelligent item.

Intelligent Boots of Levitation, for example, can activate the levitation using it's own standard action and can move the wearer up by 20-feet using it's own move action, leaving the wearer with her own allotment of actions untouched! Very useful!

BTW, I don't think a Staff of Fire can be intelligent.

Intelligent Items wrote:

Only permanent magic items (as opposed to single-use items or those with charges) can be intelligent. (This means that potions, scrolls, and wands, among other items, are never intelligent.)

A staff is an item with charges, and this staff has no powers that are permanent.

[Avh]

@Malachi : In Pathfinder, the rules about staves have changed. Now, a staff can be used an unlimited numbers of time, provided you "recharge" it with your own spell.

[Malachi Silverclaw]

Avh wrote:

@Malachi : In Pathfinder, the rules about staves have changed. Now, a staff can be used an unlimited numbers of time, provided you "recharge" it with your own spell.

Thanks for the heads up! : )

Staffs haven't come up in any of my Pathfinder games, so I never realised that some aspects of them had changed, like 10 charges instead of 25, and rechargeable.

That said...it's still an item with charges!

Quote:

Only permanent magic items (as opposed to....those with charges) can be intelligent.

I'm in two minds about this. Can PF staffs be intelligent according to RAW? What do you all think? Does the ability to be recharged make a difference?

[VRMH]

A "drained" Wand is just a dead stick. But a drained Staff can still be recharged, and so it remains a magical item even after all its charges are spent.

Mind you, I imagine intelligent Staves would demand that they be kept "topped up" at all times and may even refuse to spend any of their charges frivolously.