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Archer - maybe something better than this?

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Alright, really having a hard time with an archer. I want a cool concept, made a weaponmaster archer (see below) for PFS but somehow, hm, something seems missing. Any suggestions to improve, or maybe change? Looked into Zen archer, looks nice too, maybe even better at earlier levels and then about equal until lvl12? Ranger archer, seems to lack in feats. Any ideas, suggestions are more than welcome!

Human
STR 14 Dex 18 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 8
Fighter - Weaponmaster

1st Point blank shot, Precise shot, Rapid shot
2nd Deadly aim
3rd Weapon focus longbow
4th Weapon specialization
5th Combat reflexes
6th Many shot
7th Snap shot
8th Clustered shots
9th Improved snap shot
10th Improved precise shot
11th Greater weapon focus longbow
12th Greater weapon specialization longbow

Your build seems pretty sound. Can't argue with any of your feat choices.

But if you want a cool concept I'd highly recommend going Zen Archer. You get two extra skill points per level, and being a monk should give you some nice opportunities for RP or your backstory. It'll suck a bit at early levels when your attacks go off your Dex, but once you hit level 3 it'll pick up noticeably.

Oh and in case you are concerned, Zen Archer is a highly effective archer, on a par with or surpassing a Fighter Archer- though perhaps shift out of the class after level 8 when the juicy class features stop coming.
The Exchange

Zen Archer is really good, and I second the notion of going with it, though I disagree with shifting out at 8. There are plenty of feats you get as a Zen Archer monk, with the Fighter only being ahead by one at 20, and as this is PFS, you'll actually be ahead, I believe. On a fundamentally more defensive chassis, the Zen Archer will be a more well-rounded archer, but still able to dish out plenty of hurt.

You may be interested in this, if you'd like to know a bit more about Zen Archer.

Other than that, I can't disagree with any of your build choices, either.
Silver Crusade

Yeah the build looks solid. So solid I think I'm going to steal it to use for a weapon master archer, lol. Except I might put Weapon Focus before Deadly Aim.

Your build is missing Point Blank Master. Also, take Clustered Shots before Snap Shot. Snap Shot is pretty bad until you get Improved Snap Shot. Likewise, Combat Reflexes does nothing for you until you have those feats. I'd use level 8 to grab Combat Reflexes and swap out an old fighter feat for Snap Shot, then get Imp. Snap Shot at 9.

Zen Archer also works, I agree with Ark, I'd go Zen Archer 6, then Weapon Master Fighter 3 for weapon training to use gloves of dueling, back to Zen Archer for 2 more levels, then...either fighter 4 or something else entirely for your final PFS level at 12th.

EDIT: Imp. Precise Shot is an amazing feat, you definitely want it ASAP. But for a fighter, ASAP is level 11, not 10.

Almost any class can be a good archer, if you're not that excited about playing a fighter. Inquisitor, paladin, bard, cleric, eldritch knight, ranger, cavalier, oracle, samurai and synthesist summoner all make perfectly good archers. You don't really need a ton of bonus feats for an archer, you just need point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, manyshot, clustered shots and improved precise shot ASAP. Since that's only 6 feats, the last of which requires BAB 11, you don't even need any bonus feats to get your feats more or less 'on schedule.' Also, I reckon the ranger's bonus feat that allows you to get improved precise shot 5 levels early is worth more than the fighter having bonus feats to spare for weapon focus and weapon specialization, at least if your DM uses the cover rules.

That said, no other archer will get as much damage as your current build would, so if you like the idea of playing a fighter, stick with it, especially with the suggestions made by streamofthesky. However, nothing else in the game will do this much damage either, and in PFS you definitely don't need to be that optimized for damage to be useful.
Lantern Lodge

-Race-
Human

-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)

-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07

-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Reflexes
12 Pin Down
13 Greater Weapon Specialization
14 Hammer the Gap
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17 Vital Strike
18 Improved Vital Strike
19 Greater Vital Strike
20 Bullseye Shot

-Method-
Clustered Shots and Penetrating shot makes DR apply to the total damage from full round attacks and reduced that DR by 5/10. Snap Shot gives the ability to perform AoO and Pin Down makes it were withdraw actions and 5ft steps provoke and will force enemies that get into melee to stay in melee when needed. Vital Strike chain and Bullseye Shot ar to make use of the Weapon Master's Unstoppable Strike when forced to make only standard action attacks or when facing an enemy that's ac is so high that only one attack will hit. Unstoppable Strike btw ignores DR and hardness anf hits Touch AC.

For a purist, focused archer, I think Fighter probably is the right way to go, but you're likely going to end up "just" an archer as you invest so much in maintaining that edge/superiority.

The Zen Archer Monk goes a long way to helping making a character that isn't "just" an archer because it is very front-loaded in terms of the acquisition of the basic bread-and-butter archery feats and is more friendly in terms of saves. Though levels 1-2 are a bit of hassle.

Nevertheless, Zen Archer Monk 3-8 can be combined with lots of other classes to create archers that are still darn good with a bow but also quite flexible.

Edit: I'm liking a Zen Archer / Druid (w/Boon Companion) I'm playing at the moment... melee and ranged DPS with a little magic thrown in too. It's pretty fun.

Improved Precise Shot requires a Dex of 19 and a Bab of 11.
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Your build is missing Point Blank Master. Also, take Clustered Shots before Snap Shot. Snap Shot is pretty bad until you get Improved Snap Shot. Likewise, Combat Reflexes does nothing for you until you have those feats.

This is prettymuch accurate.

Looking through, Zen archer seems cool, so maybe go dwarf?

Traits: Glory of old, lesson of Chaldira

STR 14 Dex 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 6

Monk (Zen archer)
1st Point blank shot, Perfect strike, Steel soul
2nd Precise shot, Weapon focus
3rd Point blank mastery, deadly aim
4th
5th Improved initiative
6th Weapon specialization, Improved precise shot
7th Fighter ??????
8th Fighter Clustered shot
9th Fighter ??
10th Monk
11th Monk Improved critical
12th

This leaves some feats open, and as nice as improved snap shot is, is it worth it for a zen archer?
PeteZero wrote:

Looking through, Zen archer seems cool, so maybe go dwarf?

Traits: Glory of old, lesson of Chaldira

STR 14 Dex 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 6

Monk (Zen archer)
1st Point blank shot, Perfect strike, Steel soul
2nd Precise shot, Weapon focus
3rd Point blank mastery, deadly aim
4th
5th Improved initiative
6th Weapon specialization, Improved precise shot
7th Fighter ??????
8th Fighter Clustered shot
9th Fighter ??
10th Monk
11th Monk Improved critical
12th

This leaves some feats open, and as nice as improved snap shot is, is it worth it for a zen archer?

For your build, yes. Three feats (rapid shot, snap shot and improved snap shot) to threaten 10 feat instead of not at all seems very much worth it considering the fact that you have feats to spare anyway.

For a full level zen archer maybe not, as you pretty much get snap shot for free at level 9, but because it's a different ability you'd still need to spend 3 feats to get the improved version. Considering that you get such a good ability at level 9 I'm actually surprised people dislike zen archer 9 so much.

Personally, I'd skip the fighter levels. The snap shot ability at zen archer 9 is great, you get your next flurry of blows attack sooner, and your static monk abilities and ki powers keep scaling. On the topic of ki powers: I'd recommend you to be a qinggong monk in addition to zen archer to customize your ki powers.

To make my Zen Archer more than 'just an archer', I like to dip a level of Inquisitor, taking the Conversion inquisition. Your maximized wisdom score suddenly makes you a very effective party face, and the judgements are great flavor.

Leaning more towards Zen archer (maybe even full) now. Dwarf looks good, saves will be just great. And the snap shot feats really shine with stunning fist. And you don't get there in PFS.

1st Point blank shot, Perfect strike, Steel soul, improved unarmed strike
2nd Precise shot, Weapon focus
3rd Point blank mastery, deadly aim
4th
5th Toughness
6th Weapon specialization, Improved precise shot
7th Improved initiative
8th
9th Clustered shot
10th Improved critical
11th
12th

or
1st Point blank shot, Perfect strike, Steel soul, improved unarmed strike
2nd Precise shot, Weapon focus
3rd Point blank mastery, deadly aim
4th
5th Improved initiative
6th Weapon specialization, Improved precise shot
7th Fighter Combat reflexes, Rapid shot
8th Fighter Clustered shot
9th Fighter Snap shot
10th Monk
11th Monk Improved snap shot
GM Arkwright wrote:
To make my Zen Archer more than 'just an archer', I like to dip a level of Inquisitor, taking the Conversion inquisition. Your maximized wisdom score suddenly makes you a very effective party face, and the judgements are great flavor.

Zen Archer/Inquisitor is a nice combo. Another I've been thinking about is a Zen Archer/Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer/Arcane Archer. Haven't really tried that yet though.

I would recommend, if going zen archer, and if you dip inquisitor, is to do so for 2 levels, of inquisitor. You will now gain a huge bonus to your initiative. Your Dexterity being +2 (+4 min I assume by 10th+) and your wisdom being +4 base (+6 or higher by 10th+ level), will total a +10 initiative, without othr additional magic items, like ioun stones, or higher level magic items to boost dex and wisdom, improved initiative is another +4, so now a +14 to initiative.

Your pretty much going first now, and always.
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