So after watching a series called Silverwing, I've decided to make a race of batfolk called the Chaeropteran. But I need some advice.
My plan was to use the strix as a base, dropping hatred, darkvision and suspicious and giving them 60ft blindsight activated as a free action. Cant use it if they cant hear, cant "see" things in an area of Silence.
Problem is theres no point cost for blindsight. Thoughts, opinions? Other abilities appropriate to flying, chiefly nocturnal, anthropomorphic bats?
Closest thing to that Blindsense 30 feet for 4 RP and is a Monstrous Trait.
They could probably climb really well, as many bat species like to hang out attached to walls of overhangs, caves, etc.
They have two anthro bat races in 3.5 one is large so I don't think it's what your looking for the other is Halfling sized, but kinda ugly....at least the art of the time was, give Wayne Reynolds enough money he'll make anything pretty...but anyways.
The small ones are called Nycters though.
We can't stop here, this is bat country!
Blindsight is very powerful ability and as such would be very pricey.
Seems that double post struck again and different people responded to different instances of it. Flagged for merging.
I flagged the other one as a double post when I responded to him last night. Unfortunately, the moderators didn't remove it, so it's two going at once looks like. I just hid the other.
Another bat-like race you might find interesting are the Vril, a race in the Drow of the Underdark book (3.5). You seem to want yours to fly, however, and these don't.
I'd also suggest looking into the "attributes" of the bat-like, subterranean humanoids from the movies "The Descent" and "The Descent II."
I wish I could remember the name of the X-Files episode, but there was also one which contained a bat-dude, as well.
Tap
I hadn't thought of climbing before. Climb bonus or climb speed?
I think I remember the nyctar. Didnt they both fly AND raise dire bat mounts? Always thought that was redundant.
Where can I check out their info? A google search just comes back NYC TAR or thinks I'm looking for Tar Heels.
I know blindsight is kinda big, but I was hoping them having to activate it as a free action would help, and I was considering using Light Senesitivity to compensate.
Thanks a ton for the input so far, guys. I'd have been responding more but until recently I didn't see any responses; didn't know it had made 2 threads.
So far thats +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con (their cunning and lithe, but frail), either a +2 Perception in dim light or darker or +4 on all hearing-based Perception checks, low-light vision, either a bonus to climb or a climb speed, possibly an affinity for bats for a +2 Handle Animal towards bats, a fly speed, light sensitivity, and I'd still like to have blindsight for their ecolocation (that or the spell Echolocation at will as an SLA).
Would more appropriate weaknesses compensate for blindsight? I'd like to keep them under 20 RP, under 16 if at all possible.
Nycters can fly 40ft with good maneuverability they are in Monster Manuel 3 3.5 pg.112
It's good to have the actual book in hand. ^-^
This is what they look like:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83027.jpg
Blindsight is very powerful ability and as such would be very pricey.
Agreed (I'd guess around 8 points for it which doesn't even consider any prerequisites, but uncertain).
Dragon Knight, I have two questions:
1. Are you the GM or a player in the game in which this will be used?
2. Is there a specific reason you don't want to use Blindsense 30 feet instead?
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1. I'll be a player but my GM has given me more-or-less free reign as long as i stay under 20 RP (in exchange I'm GMing a game in which she's using a race of tiny fey she built: shes a huge Tinkerbell fan).
2. Bats can pinpoint objects with their echolocation, determining size, general shape and distance. Blindsense lets you know something is there but not with that level of precision.
Someone recomended another limitation that may reduce the point cost and give a normally epic power a bit of a nerf: making the echolocation effect a 30ft cone-shaped burst.
So now its...
Echolocation (Ex) By producing a burst of ultrahigh frequency sounds, you can detect creatures and objects you couldn't normally see. As a free action you can produce a 30ft cone of this sound: by listening to the echoes you can pinpoiint creatures and objects within the area of effect, as if you had blindsight within this area. Other creatures cannot hear this sound unless they can percieve ultrahigh frequencies (such as dogs, bats or dragons) or possess a similar ability, such as hearing-based blindsight. This ability does not function if you cannot make sound (being gagged, for example) or if you are deaf. You cannot detect anything within an area of magical silence.
What do you guys think? Does applying a limited AoE nerf it enough to make it more viable? What would the RP cost be? Considering what it does is 30ft a good range?
Off topic slightly, do larger creatures have greater ranges for sight and hearing? Like, would a dwarf under the effects of enlarge person have Darkvision 90ft?
1. I'll be a player but my GM has given me more-or-less free reign as long as i stay under 20 RP (in exchange I'm GMing a game in which she's using a race of tiny fey she built: shes a huge Tinkerbell fan).
This, in my opinion, is an example of something that should never be done by a GM. While I do not agree with this behavior and all the possible problems, social and mechanical, that can result from it, I will continue to try and help - you're not requesting a lecture. To each their own.
Someone recomended another limitation that may reduce the point cost and give a normally epic power a bit of a nerf: making the echolocation effect a 30ft cone-shaped burst.
So now its...
Echolocation (Ex) By producing a burst of ultrahigh frequency sounds, you can detect creatures and objects you couldn't normally see. As a free action you can produce a 30ft cone of this sound: by listening to the echoes you can pinpoiint creatures and objects within the area of effect, as if you had blindsight within this area. Other creatures cannot hear this sound unless they can percieve ultrahigh frequencies (such as dogs, bats or dragons) or possess a similar ability, such as hearing-based blindsight. This ability does not function if you cannot make sound (being gagged, for example) or if you are deaf. You cannot detect anything within an area of magical silence.
What do you guys think? Does applying a limited AoE nerf it enough to make it more viable? What would the RP cost be? Considering what it does is 30ft a good range?
I did a little more looking into the mechanical attributes of the bats in pathfinder. Even the base animal only has blindsense (20 ft), not blindsight. While I feel blindsense is the way to go for something of this nature, it's obviously not the direction you want to go.
As far as your revised power goes, it's not really been nerfed. Sure, you have a directional requirement, but if you're using a battlemap, the temptation to "aim" your cone where you know the bad guys are versus where your character thinks they are is going to be taxing.
A free action to activate it also isn't a big deal. For all intents and purposes, you'll just be training yourself to automatically use it every round or claim "I always use my free action to activate this, unless I specify otherwise" when you get tired of saying it or your GM gets tired of hearing it. Since swift actions mean more to some classes than others, there would be no meaningful downside to that, either. Also, how long does it last? Till the beginning of your next turn? A number of rounds? A finite duration is usually attached to something that requires an activation.
Off topic slightly, do larger creatures have greater ranges for sight and hearing? Like, would a dwarf under the effects of enlarge person have Darkvision 90ft?
No. Unless a mechanical change is specified in an entry, it does not occur.
Hope that helps.
Maybe instead of blindsight, it could have an advanced blindsense ability, with only a 20% miss chance instead of the standard 50%; and possibly Blind-fight as a bonus racial feat?
What is the target Race Point Cost for this race you want to make? Without a budget it is hard to balance. Standard core races are 8-11.
He was shooting for 16-20 RP.
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They have two anthro bat races in 3.5 one is large so I don't think it's what your looking for the other is Halfling sized, but kinda ugly....at least the art of the time was, give Wayne Reynolds enough money he'll make anything pretty...but anyways.
The small ones are called Nycters though.
Don't remember the Nycters. But I do remember the large ones: Desmodu. I'd recommend looking at both and see which works best. Converting them to Pathfinder shouldn't be too hard. Similarly so, Pathfinder Bestiary has rules on resizing creatures.
Type: Monstrous Humanoid 3 RP
Size: Medium 0 RP
Base Speed: 20' Slow -1 RP
Ability Modifiers:
Extremely delicate but clever and nimble;
Weakness (+2 Dex, -4 Con,+2 Int) -1 RP
Languages: Xenophobic
Begins with Chaeropteran. Member of this race with high intelligent scores may choose from undercommon, common, orc, and goblin. 0 RP
Skill & Feat Traits:
Cave Dweller 1 RP
Members of this race gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Survival checks made underground.
Static Bonus Feat -Blindfighting 2 RP
Sense Traits:
Darkvision 60' 0 RP (Comes with Monstrous Humanoid)
Blindsense 30' 4 RP
See in Darkness 4 RP
Members of this race can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, including that created by spells such as deeper darkness.
Movement Traits:
Climb 2 RP
Members of this race have a climb speed of 20 feet, and gain the +8 racial bonus on Climb checks that a climb speed normally grants.
Flight 6 RP
Members of this race have a fly speed of 30 feet with Average maneuverability.
You get a race that would make great scout/assassin/wizards due to movement keeping them out of harms way. Very good against invisible opponents or after covering the field with deeper darkness spells.
Type: Monstrous Humanoid 3 RP
Size: Medium 0 RP
Base Speed: 20' Slow -1 RP
Ability Modifiers:
Extremely delicate but clever and nimble;
Weakness (+2 Dex, -4 Con,+2 Int) -1 RP
Languages: Xenophobic
Begins with Chaeropteran. Member of this race with high intelligent scores may choose from undercommon, common, orc, and goblin. 0 RP
Skill & Feat Traits:
Cave Dweller 1 RP
Members of this race gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Survival checks made underground.
Static Bonus Feat -Blindfighting 2 RP
Sense Traits:
Darkvision 60' 0 RP (Comes with Monstrous Humanoid)
Blindsense 30' 4 RP
See in Darkness 4 RP
Members of this race can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, including that created by spells such as deeper darkness.
Movement Traits:
Climb 2 RP
Members of this race have a climb speed of 20 feet, and gain the +8 racial bonus on Climb checks that a climb speed normally grants.
Flight 6 RP
Members of this race have a fly speed of 30 feet with Average maneuverability.You get a race that would make great scout/assassin/wizards due to movement keeping them out of harms way. Very good against invisible opponents or after covering the field with deeper darkness spells.
This version, I like.
-4 Con is very balancing. Totally makes up for super mobility and super sensory stuff. Slow Speed is also relatively debilitating without being totally nerfy. Especially since they an use flight in most circumstances to keep up with and even exceed normal PCs (especially if flying over difficult terrain and the like).