Sniper goggles, greater: Is melee an "any" range?

[seebs]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/goggl es-sniper-goggles

Base item: +2 circumstance bonus to sneak attack dice for ranged sneak attacks within 30'.
Greater item: +2 bonus "when making a sneak attack at any range".

Is "melee range" an any-range? I note that the base item says "a ranged sneak attack", and the greater one drops that qualifier.

The relevance here is that I can't tell whether the intent that these are much better because they give the bonus from 30' to 60', or because they give the bonus from 30' to 60' and also on melee attacks...

[Are]

The greater version also only works on ranged sneak attacks. By the way, the range isn't simply increased from 30 ft to 60 ft; the range is unlimited.

[seebs]

Okay, here's my question: How are you determining that it only works on ranged sneak attacks? I think that's certainly a plausible intent, and I'd probably rule it that way. But it is not obvious to me that the wording chosen actually expresses that. Specifically, the change from "when making ranged sneak attacks" to "when making a [NO QUALIFIER HERE] sneak attack".

But you're right about the range, not sure where I got that 60' thing from. It's been a long day.

[Some call me Tim]

This where a DM should use some common sense and adjudicate rules-as-intended instead of rules-as-written. If it was to function so differently why not change the name to "sneaky goggles" or some such. To me not changing the name, says volumes about the intent.

If we are going with the strict rules-as-written (ALL HAIL THE RULES-AS-WRITTEN) make sure you only add +2 TOTAL for the entire attack. You see the writer (or editor) also left off the bit about "each damage dice."

Note: The sarcastic tone is intentional for humorous effect not directed at any person/group/role-play philosophy.

[seebs]

That is a persuasive argument that either there's a huge disparity of intent (the greater goggles are +2 total rather than per die, and work in melee too), or the "greater" goggles are just badly edited.

Good catch.

[Sgmendez]

"These goggles function as sniper goggles, but the wearer gains the +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack when making a sneak attack at any range."

Emphasis mine. Since they function as Sniper Goggles, and Sniper Goggles only modify ranged sneak attacks. They only modify ranged sneak attacks. The only change is that they gain the +2 bonus on each sneak attack at any range as opposed to 30 ft. Now, I may be wrong, but melee is not range. Now there is a range for spells called touch, but the only time that ever appears is in spells, and really has no precedence on any other area of the game.

[Jofarin]

Melee is not a range, but an attack classifier as is ranged. You can shoot at 0ft distance, but it's still a ranged attack.

Melee attacks can gain reach, not range.

[Grick]

Sniper Goggles: "The wearer of these goggles can make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30 feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack damage die."

Sniper Goggles, Greater: "These goggles function as sniper goggles, but the wearer gains the +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack when making a sneak attack at any range."

When GSG mentions "the" circumstance bonus, they are referring to the circumstance bonus mentioned under sniper goggles.

The circumstance bonus under sniper goggles only works when making a ranged sneak attack within a certain range.

Therefore, the bonus under GSG only works when making a ranged sneak attack at any range, because it's the same bonus, so the same conditions apply except for the ones it specifically changes.

[Chemlak]

Do the GSG actually grant the ability to make sneak attacks at a range greater than 30', though? My read of them is that it's a little ambiguous. You get the bonus "when making a sneak attack at any range", but you can't sneak attack beyond 30' (cf. sneak attack). Since you can't sneak attack at 35'+, the "when" doesn't come into play, because the attack is not a sneak attack.

Edit: I'd probably let them grant sneak attack at any range, but the RAW is not clear-cut.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Nope, By RAW they do not. You would need feats/abilities/other items that allow the extension of the SA range

Edit: grick is correct I missed that first sentence of the regular goggles: "The wearer of these goggles can make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the normal 30 feet. "

[Grick]

Chemlak wrote:

Do the GSG actually grant the ability to make sneak attacks at a range greater than 30', though?

GSG: "These goggles function as sniper goggles, but..."

They function as sniper goggles, with the only exception being the things listed.

Nothing listed removes (or changes) the ability that sniper goggles grant that allows you to make a ranged sneak attack at any distance, so that means they still grant that ability.

[Chemlak]

Note to self: don't skim-read items. I completely missed that bit. Thanks, Grick.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Chemlak wrote:

Note to self: don't skim-read items. I completely missed that bit. Thanks, Grick.

You and me both, I blame it on the original post not including that part of the text