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A lot of people suggest taking the archer fighter archetype is a good choice for archers.
Is it really worth it?
You lose armor training - which is a big deal in a low magic world - since full plate has a Max Dex of 1 --- and you ARE a Dex-based character.Also - with an archers typically average (14) str - and the added -4, attempts to disarm / trip etc at range will probably fail due to your low CMB.
Am I missing anything?
By the way - I plan on being in melee range, as a level 7 character I'll have Point Blank Master - so firing while in melee provokes no AoO - and I plan on taking snap shot soon enough.
No one know thinks the archer archetype is any good. Go normal fighter and you will be golden.
Archer Fighter by RAW can't use gloves of dueling. This makes him an inferior archer to regular fighter. Do not go Archer, unless your DM houserules to allow the gloves to work.
Even then...it's not that great. As an archer, you want to always full attack, so the only maneuver options that even work on a full attack are disarm, sunder, and trip. The first two are very situational and the latter isn't an option till level 11 and makes the foe harder for you to shoot.
I'd rather go Weapon Master as an archer.
If ever I play a fighter Archer I guess that's what I'll be doing, too.
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thanks. pure fighter i think is the best.
maybe - in high levels, take some wizard + arcane archer dip - maybe.also: as for items, we find very little but are able to craft with feats. we got VERY low funds- but still can save and make.
so far i found a few items worth saving for, any more ?
1. composite long power (+2) bow +1 -- > later add either shock or seeking
2. gloves of dueling (nice! )
3. bracers of lesser archery (greater cost too much)
4. belt of dex (+2)what else ?
Instead of Bracers of Archery (Lesser) opt for Bracers of Falcon's Aim. Having Aspect of the Falcon for 4,000gp is great: +3 perception, +1 to hit and your bows threat range becomes 19-20/x3
Don't bother with the Seeking enhancement, it's rubbish.
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Character I've got on the go at the minute.
Toric
Dwarf Fighter (Weapon Master) 3 Monk (Zen Archer, Qinggong Monk) 6
LG Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +23
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 21, flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex)
hp 87 (3d10+6d8+36)
Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +14; +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +1 bonus vs. effects targetting a Longbow held by you, +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +10/+5 (1d8+3/x2)
Ranged +1 Guided Composite longbow (Str +0) +26/+21 (1d8+17/19-20/x3)
Special Attacks flurry of blows +4/+4/-1, hatred, ki strike, magic, weapon training +3: longbow, zen archery
Spell-Like Abilities Barkskin (self only, 1 Ki)
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 26, Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +10; CMD 31 (31 vs. Bull Rush, 36 vs. Disarm, 36 vs. Sunder, 31 vs. Trip)
Feats Clustered Shots, Deadly Aim -2/+4, Far Shot, Hammer the Gap, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monkey Style, Perfect Strike (2d20) (6/day), Point Blank Master (Longbow), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Reckless Aim, Snap Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
Traits Defensive Strategist
Skills Acrobatics +23 (+27 jump), Climb +11, Disable Device +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +23 (+25 to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors in stone walls or floors), Sense Motive +20, Stealth +15, Survival +13 Modifiers lorekeeper
Languages Common, Dwarven, Giant, Orc
SQ ac bonus +9, fast movement (+20'), hardy, ki archery, ki arrows, ki defense, ki pool, slow and steady, stability, stonecunning +2, unarmed strike (1d8), weapon guard +1: longbow
Other Gear +1 Guided Composite longbow (Str +0), Bracers of falcon's aim, Gloves of dueling, Headband of inspired wisdom +4, 6600 GP
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Special Abilities
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AC Bonus +9 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Barkskin (self only, 1 Ki) (Sp) Self Only. Costs 1 ki point to activate.
Clustered Shots Total damage from full-round ranged attacks before applying DR
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Defensive Strategist Your knowledge of dwarven history and religion gives you an excellent mind for defensive strategy and tactics. You are not flat-footed when you are an unaware combatant. This includes a surprise round that you don't get to act in, and before you get
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Far Shot Halve the range increment penalty for extended range.
Fast Movement (+20') The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +4/+4/-1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full rd action.
Gloves of dueling These supple gloves grant the wearer a +4 bonus to her CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder her wielded weapons, and effects that cause her to lose her grip on her weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, her weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Hammer the Gap With a full-attack action, each hit against the same opponent deals extra damage
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Improved Precise Shot Ignore AC bonuses and miss chance from anything less than total cover/concealment.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Archery (Su) 1 Ki point: +50' range increment for bows.
Ki Arrows (Su) 1 Ki point: bow deals the same damage as unarmed strike.
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Lorekeeper +2 for Knowledge (History) checks relating to dwarves and their enemies. These checks can be made untrained.
Monkey Style Add Wisdom bonus on Acrobatics checks, and take no penalty for attacking while prone
Perfect Strike (2d20) (6/day) With certain weapons, roll twice, higher is attack, lower is confirmation roll.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Reckless Aim Your lack of regard for others proves a boon when you fire projectiles into melee.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
Benefit: When you shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee, you can choose to t
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Snap Shot Threaten squares within 5 feet of you when wielding a ranged weapon
Stability +4 Gain bonus to CMD vs bull rush/trip while standing on ground.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Unarmed Strike (1d8) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Weapon Guard +1: Longbow (Ex) +1 CMD vs. Disarm and Sunder or other effects targeting your chosen weapon.
Weapon Training +3: Longbow (Ex) +3 to hit and damage with your chosen weapon.
Zen Archery (Ex) Use WIS instead of DEX for ranged attacks with a bow.
Rolled for stats and got very high rolls and my GM waived the requirement of Rapid Shot for Snap Shot as it would be utterly pointless for me to take Rapid Shot.
Uh...Seeking is absolutely not rubbish... Miss chance and concealment can be pretty common. And for rogue archers (rare as they are due to sucking), it's basically an essential upgrade.
It does lose luster once you have Improved Precise Shot, admittedly. Which Zen Archers and Rangers can have at level 6. But others not till 11+.
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Personally i prefer fighters over the rest of the archers. I built this one a while back but have yet to play it. Most build i recommend i have played but i know this build will work quite well.
-Race-
Human
-Class-
Fighter (Weapon Master)
-Stats 20pb-
STR 16 (+2 racial)(+2 leveling) = 20
DEX 16 (+2 leveling)(+6 item) = 24
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 09
CHA 07
-Feats-
01 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus Composite Longbow
02 Deadly Aim
03 Rapid Shot
04 Weapon Specialization
05 Point Blank Master
06 Manyshot
07 Clustered Shots
08 Greater Weapon Focus
09 Snap Shot
10 Improved Snap Shot
11 Combat Reflexes
12 Pin Down
13 Greater Weapon Specialization
14 Hammer the Gap
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Greater Penetrating Strike
17 Vital Strike
18 Improved Vital Strike
19 Greater Vital Strike
20 Bullseye Shot
-Method-
Clustered Shots and Penetrating shot makes DR apply to the total damage from full round attacks and reduced that DR by 5/10. Snap Shot gives the ability to perform AoO and Pin Down makes it were withdraw actions and 5ft steps provoke and will force enemies that get into melee to stay in melee when needed. Vital Strike chain and Bullseye Shot ar to make use of the Weapon Master's Unstoppable Strike when forced to make only standard action attacks or when facing an enemy that's ac is so high that only one attack will hit. Unstoppable Strike btw ignores DR and hardness anf hits Touch AC.
I'd rather play a Zen Archer, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Cleric, Paladin or Inquisitor archer than a fighter archer.
However, the only one of those that can equal the Fighter archer in terms of damage is probably the Zen Archer. So it's not that fighters aren't good as archers, it's just that I personally prefer a character with more options.
edit: I forgot the synthesist summoner archer. I'd play that before a fighter as well.
Actually, in terms of straight up damage the Zen archer falls behind the fighter after level 8, and further behind at 11 when the fighter picks up his improved precise shot. Lack of ability to generate the big bonuses to hit and damage that smite/instant enemy/bane and weapon training can provide pushed the zen archer below the other classes late in the game as well according to the DPR math I came up with.
I will say the zen archer is insanely well rounded and fun, it's possibly the most well rounded non caster.
Urban Barbarian Archer!
Inquisitor Archer!
Arcane Archer!
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OP
Weapon master archer not only gets the training faster but more importantly gives more ac when being attacked by its mastered weapon. For melee there is a long list of weapons available meaning the odds of u getting the bonus ac is almost nil but for ranged there is such a short list and only a few decent 1s on that list that getting the bonus ac is quite favorable. The bonus ac btw is coming from the Weapon Master's Mirror Move ability. Since the character is not truly meant for close combat, though thnks to its feats can still holds it own when it comes to it, it can get away with having low con especially since it gets d10s for health. Also at high end levels the best armor to use is either Bracers of armor or Haramaki when dealing with a high dex character.
Sadly to say Combat Manuevers are a waste with exception to Dirty Trick / Feint rogues and Sunder happy strikers. Even then the only way to get those off reliably every turn is to be a Lore Warden Fighter since it gets a bonus +8 to CMB and CMD not to mention that WF/GWF feats and weapon training apply to certain maneuvers when using ur weapon to do them. Also in concerns to sunder unless u have a caster that can cast Make Whole u will be losing out on a decent chunk of cash.
I'd rather go Weapon Master as an archer.If ever I play a fighter Archer I guess that's what I'll be doing, too.from your words it sounds like you'd rather play another kind of archer?
which ?
I don't like to play a pc with such limited options as a single class fighter. So I'd most likely multiclass or dip. But until now I didn't get around to playing an archer at all.
One archer I did build (but not play) was a 10th level pc who was cavalier 4/weapon master 5/mammoth rider 1 riding into battle on his huge tiger mount. But even with him I did mourn the total lack of spells or similar versatile abilities.
Urban Barbarian Archer!
Inquisitor Archer!
Arcane Archer!
Archer Archer!
Archer Archer Archer!!!
Sheesh. This is getting monotonous.
I really enjoy the good old fashion Ranger archer.
Near the same damage as the other dedicated archers
Can cast up to 4th level spells
Nice skill list and number of skill points.
Decent abilities outside Archery
Really nice pet you can put between yourself and the bad guy.
Not to mention its got that classic Archer feel.
Urban Barbarian Archer!
Inquisitor Archer!
Arcane Archer!Archer Archer!
Archer Archer Archer!!!
Sheesh. This is getting monotonous.
yo dawg
I heard you like bows
oh yeah, forgot
Bowyer Archer Archer!
Archer Bowyer Archer!
Bowyer Bowyer Archer!
Archer Bowyer Archer!
Bowyer Archer Bowyer!!!!!!!!!