Starting at level 8.
I'm just trying to pick what to make I can see arguments for both sides.
Bard and paladin both use cha and physical stats. Also Paladin gives the bard full bab.
Rogue and fighter also use somewhat similar stats. Most of the stuff that I hear about rogues being bad is they can't hit. The fighter should be able to fix that. The bad things I hear about fighters is there lack of skill points the rogue can fix that.
So assuming a game where daily resources don't refresh often which do you think is better?
A two weapon fighter with sneak attack would be awesome. Also has the incredibly large advantage of NOT having to role play a paladin, or the risk of falling.
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Bard/Paladin is one of the very best Gestalts possible.
Want to ruin an evil dude's day? Be a Paladin/Sound Striker Bard. Smite Evil + Weird Words. The biggest weakness of Weird Words is DR, but Smiting ignores DR. If you're level 10, you're making 10 touch attacks with your Charisma as a bonus to hit, and each attack is dealing 1d8+Charisma+10 damage (not including other applicable modifiers). Sick.
Fighter/Rogue, meanwhile, is pretty terrible. You might consider instead Ranger/Ninja or Paladin/Ninja. Ranger or Paladin/Vivisectionist Alchemist. Rogues are lame. Fighters are lame. Mixing them is extra lame.
I really want to play a gestalt Dawnflower Dervish/Paladin.
Rogue fighter is pretty awesome. I would go fighter/ninja myself. Take android, will saves no longer really a problem. Do two weapon fighting, take the lorewarden archtype . You will be an awesome skill monkey and by 10th level I don't think there will be anything that can out dpr you.
You will be an awesome skill monkey and by 10th level I don't think there will be anything that can out dpr you.
A Paladin/Ranger Archer Smiting a Favored Enemy will easily out damage that, and that's just off the top of my head. And by 10th level, dpr becomes less and less relevant in favor of creative solutions (99% of the time involving spells) that totally bypass the fights to begin with.
Rogue and fighter also use somewhat similar stats. Most of the stuff that I hear about rogues being bad is they can't hit. The fighter should be able to fix that. The bad things I hear about fighters is there lack of skill points the rogue can fix that.
Lack of skill points is not the problem. Lack of relevant class abilities is. On the Rogue side, it's lack of sneak attack opportunity.
But, if you want to, here's my suggestion: Shatter Defenses. Something like Cleric 1/Thug Rogue 5//Cavalier(order of the Cockatrice) 2/Fighter 4.
You will be an awesome skill monkey and by 10th level I don't think there will be anything that can out dpr you.A Paladin/Ranger Archer Smiting a Favored Enemy will easily out damage that, and that's just off the top of my head. And by 10th level, dpr becomes less and less relevant in favor of creative solutions (99% of the time involving spells) that totally bypass the fights to begin with.
On certian enemies in a specific circumstance and only if the dm ignores cover rules. Second team game, spell caster handle magic. There are a lot things magic cannot overcome, for that they have you. Nothing is going to out dpr a fighter ninja with invisible blade. This Iss pretty much the ultimate martial character. Your character does not to do everything well, even in a gesalt game.
Personally the whole attraction of geselt game is to make cool stuff you normally can't, in this case you get to make storm shadow. Good enough for me.
On certian enemies in a specific circumstance and only if the dm ignores cover rules. Second team game, spell caster handle magic.
For a level 10 Ranger, there is no such thing as "cover", and everything is either a scrub or a +6 favored enemy; his BaB + feats attack bonus is +8/+8/+8/+3 vs. a dual-wielder's +8/+8/+3/+3.
I like the idea of a Paladin/Alchemist.
Pump your Int and Cha then use Smite Evil and Bombs for ridiculous damage to touch AC :)
Hell, you will be starting at level 8 so you can have force bombs to deal this cool damage to everything.
Not to mention:
High BAB
High skill points
Good save progression for everything (+CHA)
A bunch of immunities.
A little bit of magic and extracts.
Ok, it is probably too MAD to work well, but it is a fun idea.
I'm rather partial to fighter/rogue, for the crossbowman fighter archetype and lots of sneak attack. Then again, I like to play snipers. :P
Two-weapon warrior/rogue is pretty ballin'.
Alright I'm convinced that bard/paladin is the best combination. So how would you assign the stats using a 25 point buy?
I imagine that Cha is even more important then it is for a normal paladin.
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"...In Gestalt game which do you think is better bard / paladin or rouge / fighter ..."
The rouge fighter always gets made fun of by the straight fighters for wearing makeup.
The rouge fighter always gets made fun of by the straight fighters for wearing makeup.
I'm surprised at how many posts it took before someone chimed in on the thread title...
The beauty of Gestalt is that the two classes should complement each other by each class covering areas that the other class is weak. Saves are a perfect example. Also, it helps if both classes have different ways to gain benefits from the same common features, such as the way both paladin and bard can benefit from a good CHA.
The weakness of Gestalt is that you might have extra class abilities but you have limited actions. If you have a 4-man group, each with one class, you get 4 classes and 4 actions each combat round. But if you have a 2-man Gestalt group, you still get 4 classes but only 2 actions each round.
But taking two classes that are both good at fighting and little else could be a bad idea. Yes, I know, rogues aren't even good at fighting. So with fighter/rogue, you get fighting, with some extra skills, and weak WILL saves. Not a great solution.
With paladin/bard, you get fighting, support, magic, knowledge, and skills and you don't get any weak saves, and they both benefit from mostly the same set of ability scores. Further, you can maintain your bardic performance as a free action, so you can often have the benefits of both classes during every melee round. Conservation of actions. Great choice.
Paladin/Bard. Hands down.
I'd go with
Str 18 (16+2 racial), Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 08, Cha 16
Or... If you don't like dump stats: 18, 12, 12, 11, 10, 16
But if you want a Dervish Dancer: 10, 18, 14, 12, 08, 16
DD with no dump stats: 10, 18, 14, 10, 10, 16
For archery, I'd go 14, 18, 12, 10, 08, 16
Archer with no dump stats: 14, 18, 10, 10, 10, 16
I like Paladin/Fighter better. Fighter stacks with the Paladin where the Bard Abilities are in addition to the Paladin. What this means is the you can be a Paladin or Bard with your actions. If you go fighter you are Paladin and fighter in you actions.
A Paladin with armor training is great, weapon training stack with smite, and the Paladin can definitely use the feats. Bravery is kind of waste, I'd look to archetype that swaps that out.
If you go Bard you will be competing against yourself for action economy with attack(smite), casting arcane spells and casting divine spells. As well you limit yourself to light armor unless you go arcane duelist. This combo is top heavy, you get really powerful when you can use move action to inspire courage, get to cast in medium or heavy armor and have enough wealth to buy a rod of quicken. But getting to that point you struggling with action economy.
I had a player play this in game I ran.
Arcane Armor Mastery allows him reduce spell failure chance. Sure, it takes a swift action, but if he's casting, he most likely won't be attacking. And he can always buy a mithral Breastplate.
Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat. It's like a scaling Weapon Specialization. Only downside is that you won't be able to use LoH at the same round you use it.
The problem with Fighter levels is that they add damage and AC, but very few options.
Bard/Paladin is stronger overall I suppose, but i would have way more fun playing a rogue/fighter.