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Welcome, CombatTacos! What sort of advice are you looking for? Here are some general points you may or may not have already picked up on.
** Download and read over the free Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (link).
** Check out the FAQs for Pathfinder Society and for the Core Rulebook.
** If you haven't seen it, I would recommend Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Rogues as a helpful place to start thinking about how to put a Rogue together.
** But you don't need to worry about getting the build just right right now, since you can rebuild your character any time before you play your first adventure as level 2.
You need to choose your feats, equipment, skills, and favored class bonus/ Don't forget your hitpoints, either (you should have 8hp).
You can pick 2 feats -- one for 1st level and a bonus feat for being a human. You can buy starting equipment based on how much gold you get at 1st level, which is stated in the PFS materials. Your class description says how many skill points you get. Spend those points on adding ranks to your skills, but none can get more than one point per level. Whenever you level up in your favored class, you get the choice to add +1 to your hitpoints or get an extra skill point.
I personally recommend Weapon Finesse and Two-Weapon Fighting as your feats. For your equipment, buy two short swords, studded leather armor, and a rogue's kit. Put one rank in as many class skills as possible (you want perception and disable device for sure). I recommend +1 hitpoint as your favored class bonus.
After that, you should be ready to roll.
I'd consider dropping the dex by one to bring up the int. Even as a rogue, skill points are precious in PFS. Also, cha10 str11 gives you a bit more encumbrance for the same bonuses, or you could go wis12 cha12 to help with the socialising and UMD.
I assume you're taking weapon finesse for one feat. Plenty of choices for the other, ironwill or toughness or improvedinitiative are classics for a reason. 2wf is a lot tougher to hit with at low levels, might be better to leave that hand free for lights and eventually a mw buckler.
Don't forget light sources, a ranged weapon even if it's only a sling, and if you can afford it a silver light mace, a cold iron dagger, and a healer's kit.
I would add my voice to increasing intelligence, skills are your strongest point, so make the absolute most of them. Intelligence is the second most important stat for any rogue. Constitution is important, but if you are leading with your chin in a fight, you shouldn't be a rogue.
Featwise, you may wish to hold off Weapon Finesse until 2nd level, when you can take it as a rogue talent. Two Weapon Fighting is important if you plan on being a 'combat rogue', but there's plenty else to look at as other options.
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You need to choose your feats, equipment, skills, and favored class bonus/ Don't forget your hitpoints, either (you should have 8hp).
You can pick 2 feats... Whenever you level up in your favored class, you get the choice to add +1 to your hitpoints or get an extra skill point
+1 to the things I quoted. Also, don't forget traits.
I hesitate to give you advice since you haven't asked for it and you haven't stated what kind of character you want to play. If you are interested in getting advice:
1. What are the top three things (in order) that you want your character to be good at?
2. What is most important to you: optimization or roll-playing
3. Does the name Shadowblade have any implications about what she does?
Well, one feat you absolutely need is Toughness. Also you have a favored class bonus that will add a HP. That adds 4 HP, which a rogue really needs.
Did you buy your stats or roll them?
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Well, I want it to be good at things Rogues are usually.. Good at. Sneaking, Getting around unnotice ( Like disarming traps, being able to find and detect things that'll discover me or give me away ) and thats about it. Literally just being sneaky sneaky. I like being the best I can be. And Shadowblade has to do with the aforementioned things, Sneaky and backstabbing.
Okay, with this in mind, I would do the following:
STR 10
DEX 20
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 8
2 Feats:
Weapon Finesse (DEX instead of STR for attack rolls)
Skill Focus: Stealth (+3 bonus to stealth)
2 Traits:
Freedom Fighter: Andoran (+1 Stealth, +1 attack during surprise round)
This will net you:
- 8 skill points per lvl (8 class, -1 int, +1 race)
- 11 hp at lvl 1 (8 base, +2 con, +1 favored class)
- +13 Stealth at lvl 1 (1 rank, 3 class, 5 ability, 3 feat, 1 trait
I would wait to pick up two weapon fighting until lvl 3. At this point, your attack bonus is just too low to be using TWF.
You cannot take more than one trait from the same category. So you cannot pick two regional traits or two combat traits, etc..
As long as you rank the right skills and have a good Dex, you can sneak around and do rogue-like stuff regardless of build. The question becomes what do you do when you aren't disabling traps and sneaking around?
The reason I recommend TWF because it allows you to double sneak attack. Weapon Finesse is definitely a must for 1st level. Sure, you can wait until 2nd level, but having a +0 to your attack will REALLY hurt for that first level. If you take Weapon Finesse now, you can spend your talent on something that can't be done with a feat or simply take the talent that gives you weapon focus.
I'm not a fan of spending feats on skill bonuses.
Trapper Guide Ranger.
Way better Rogue.
I would give similar advice actually. Skillmonkeys look great, and it sounds great and helpful, but in a PFS enviroment I've rarely gotten anything out of them. Its better to be well rounded and good at many things, and many other people can do the rogues job of sneaking around. The class's names don't always describe them best, just some of the fluff that goes along with them. After a session or 2 in PFS, it might not hurt to look at other options. Possibly with the help of any new friends you make in PFS or on the forums.
Here's how I'd do the stats:
str 11
Dex16+2=18
con14
int10
wis12
cha12
Feats: wpn finesse, toughness
traits:Reactionary (+2 to init)
Alternately, use the same stats for Urban Ranger, using the two wpn style. In the case of the ranger I'd do STR12, CHA11.
My preference is to not Min any stat, unless you really want to RP someone stupid or ugly.
The super- sneaky Rogue means going for Shadow-dancer PrC. In order to do that, instead of Toughness, do Dodge.
Then at 3 do Mobility, 5 do Combat reflexes. Lvl 6 is your first Shadow-dancer level. Note than a Ranger can do SD too.
Trapper Guide Ranger.
Way better Rogue.
i actually prefer the urban ranger, so you keep spell access, and wands of CLW are pretty useful
Wands of infernal healing are better, and chances are someone in your PFS group can use them, and while you have a decent chance of adventuring in absolom, I think Favored Community really goes to waste. Personally I'd rather toss out trapfinding and just increase disable device that way you open up many more options. I rarely see traps in a PFS scenario, and I think I've actually seen more haunts!(two of which were TPK)
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Staying full rogue. My suggestion is to change your point buy a little. Then pick up the two weapon fighting tree. If you going shadow dancer your better off going. Urban ranger then shadow dancer. As shadow dancer dose not increase you sneak attack dice.
New stat lay out.
Str 12
Dex 19 (Required for the two weapon fighting tree. You will be using sneak attack dice as your main damage. So this can be a problem for some scenarios.)
Con 14 (Starting with a lower Con? This is what I like to call dead man walking at higher level play. I have seen so many characters die from lack of a good starting con it's not even funny. Just to day we hade a level 7 wizard go down in a T8-9 scenario. He was only hit two times by a channel negative energy for mid 30's damage. This is what you can expect to happen with a 10 starting con. Rule one you will get hit. Rule two make sure you can stay up after you get hit.)
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 8
Feet's : Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesses
Trait's : Reactionary, ?
Now my suggestion for building rogue.
Ranger 6/ Rogue 6
Str 17
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 8
Feet's : Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Initiative
Trait's : Reactionary, Sacred Touch
Ranger Combat Style
Ranger 2 Double Slice, Ranger 6 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Rogue Talent's
Rogue 2 Fast Stealth Rogue 4 Weapon Training Rogue 6 Combat Trick
Feet's
3: Weapon Proficiency Kukri, or Wakizashi
5: Power Attack
7: Step Up
9: Toughness
11: Improved Initiative
"CombatTacos" is officially my favorite screen name for the week.
I'd disagree. Rogues do less damage, skillpoints aren't as valuable now, and rogue talents are usually meh or bad and in a few cases let you do something you can already do(Charlatan!).
Sneaking and trapfinding aren't exclusive to rogues either. So there are many many options to look at.
still, theres nothing wrong with wanting to play a rogue, theres plenty fun to be had, especially for newbies, dont get him addicted to optimized damage output otherwise anything else he plays will seem lackluster
Rogues may not be the must-have class they once were, but the rogue can still perform his function of trapspringer and scout. He has a role to play in the party, and he's good at it.
To the OP:
Have you played any similar games prior to PFS?
Do you pick up complicated rules fairly quickly?
If you answer no to both, you may not want to go the two weapon fighting route. Some people find it confusing.
To be sneaky and trap finding with only the Core Rule Book, there is nothing wrong with the rogue. But many people do prefer the ranger.
Six of one, half dozen of the other...
Since you are playing PFS, don't completely neglect the social and knowledge type skills. They are more pervasive in PFS than they are in many home games.
But as others have said, don't get too bent out of shape about the build yet. Up until just before you play as a second level character you can rebuild him.
So try whatever you come up with for your 1st session. Maybe make some changes based on what you saw or advice given. Play your 2nd session. Narrow down what you think you want to play long term. Play your 3rd session. Finalize the character as he becomes 2nd level.
Feel free to keep coming back for more advice as you make changes. You will find crowds of people eager to give their opinions on anything possible.
Go to town after that and have a blast!
To the OP:
In PFS, you can change your character until your first session as a level 2 character. So take weapon Finesse at level 1 as a feat. At level 2, revamp your character and swap out the feat for something else and pick up weapon finesse as a rogue talent. This will allow you to never go without it.
Rogues may not be the must-have class they once were, but the rogue can still perform his function of trapspringer and scout. He has a role to play in the party, and he's good at it.There are classes that do both, at the same time, better.
Please remember he is new to the game system. And I believe it was implied up thread he only has access to the CRB. Archtypes and a bunch of optional traits may be a complication that is better not to deal with on the very first character.
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Rogues may not be the must-have class they once were, but the rogue can still perform his function of trapspringer and scout. He has a role to play in the party, and he's good at it.There are classes that do both, at the same time, better.
If they want to play a rogue, let them play a rogue. There's no rule that says you have to build "the best" character every time....especially not the first time.
Now, I don't have a lot of higher level experience, but my two weapon fighting, scout, swashbuckler rogue is pretty much ALWAYS the top damage dealer in my PFS game.
I enjoy playing a rogue. There are a wide variety of builds that you can accomplish with the class. They have a lot of flavor... I say go for it!
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I'd disagree. Rogues do less damage, skillpoints aren't as valuable now, and rogue talents are usually meh or bad and in a few cases let you do something you can already do(Charlatan!).
Sneaking and trapfinding aren't exclusive to rogues either. So there are many many options to look at.
Or you can just take "Combat Trick" over and over and end up with nearly as many feats as a fighter.... Sorry, don't mean to be snarky. I love my rogue!
Or you can just take "Combat Trick" over and over and end up with nearly as many feats as a fighter.... Sorry, don't mean to be snarky. I love my rogue!I'd disagree. Rogues do less damage, skillpoints aren't as valuable now, and rogue talents are usually meh or bad and in a few cases let you do something you can already do(Charlatan!).
Sneaking and trapfinding aren't exclusive to rogues either. So there are many many options to look at.
Except you can only take Combat Trick once... I agree though that if the op wants to play a rogue go for it.. Yes there are classes that do the same things as a rogue only better, but who cares.. keep it simply for 1st character.. I would actually suggest going half-elf and take ancestral weapon alt for a Elven Curve Blade.. Take weapon Finesse at 1st.. Weapon Training in ECB at 2nd and Power attack at 3rd..
Stats:
Str 13(for power attack)
dex 17+2(all pluses here)
con 14
int 10
wis 12
cha 9
Get the Agile Enchant on your Curve Blade later.. Using 1 weapon is even easier for a beginner..
Swashbucklers, like Lamontia's rogue, can take Combat Trick twice.
The Scout Archtype is pretty solid though if u have access to the apg.. Bleeding attack is another solid rogue talent, as well as offensive defense and ninja trick(pressure points)..
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No one is saying that playing a Rogue is wrong.
All I am saying, is that in my experience, is that you get new players, wanting to play a Rogue, because they believe that's the only way to be sneaky and skillful. Hell, many still believe that, and are still even convinced the Rogue is the best at it.
They go in thinking they will be on par with the Fighter, and epect to get Sneak Attack waaay more often then they actually end up getting it.
Disappointment sets in, and they feel let down.
Other classes around them begin doing what they do, only better.
It breaks my heart, and I don't want that for a new player.
Swashbucklers, like Lamontia's rogue, can take Combat Trick twice.
Right on, well she made it sound like you could take it everytime u had a trick..
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No one is saying that playing a Rogue is wrong.
All I am saying, is that in my experience, is that you get new players, wanting to play a Rogue, because they believe that's the only way to be sneaky and skillful. Hell, many still believe that, and are still even convinced the Rogue is the best at it.
They go in thinking they will be on par with the Fighter, and epect to get Sneak Attack waaay more often then they actually end up getting it.
Disappointment sets in, and they feel let down.
Other classes around them begin doing what they do, only better.
It breaks my heart, and I don't want that for a new player.
I play my rogue pretty non-sneaky and only moderately skillful. ;) Well, unless you call basically using acrobatics and scouts charge to ALWAYS be sneak attacking skillful!
I enjoy the hell out of my rogue. Having the aim of being in a position to sneak attack, and indeed full round attack as often as possible, I think makes me a better player. I use scouts charge, friendly switch, I go on delay, I hold actions, and I roll an extra 3d6 per attack almost every round.
Sneak attack benefits most from a smart player with a solid understanding of how to make it happen.
That being said, some of it is out of your hands as a player, in that you also need teammates who understand how their position can maximize your rogue's potential.
Lamontia and I have an advantage in the sense that in PFS, my cleric is used to delving with her rogue. In addition to being a clanking juggernaut of pain and party-buffing, I constantly focus on putting my cleric's iron-clad butt in the best position to maximize Lamontia's rogue's chance for a flank.
Compared to my rogue that I played in an LGS game, Lamontia's rogue does see a significantly larger amount of sneak attacks than mine did because she's got a dedicated flanking buddy.
I'l also admit that in PFS, we both just hit level 5. My highest rogue was just shy of level 6 when he died in the LGS game.
So, I really can't speak to higher level rogue issues. Still, that's a lot of PFS fun before you really even have to worry about anything over level 9, which from my understanding is where many of the discussed "bad rogue" issues begin to become more apparent.
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@Lamontia:
Rogues can be viable, for an experienced player.
An experienced player knows how to build a good Rogue.
An experienced player knows how to run a good Rogue, and make the best use out of the chosen abilities and feats.
I don't now how many times I have to say it, but there is nothing wrong with playing a Rogue, and still, no one is saying that.
Rogues are more easily built poorly, than well.
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@Lamontia:
Rogues can be viable, for an experienced player.
An experienced player knows how to build a good Rogue.
An experienced player knows how to run a good Rogue, and make the best use out of the chosen abilities and feats.
I don't now how many times I have to say it, but there is nothing wrong with playing a Rogue, and still, no one is saying that.
Rogues are more easily built poorly, than well.
I'll admit that I have seen some poorly built, and even more poorly played rogues. I think a lot of people have this idea that you have to come out of stealth in order to get sneak attacks (I wonder where ANYONE would get that silly idea?). If I can't manage to get a flank, I will admit that my damage is pretty awful.
This poor guy asking for build advice had no idea what he was getting himself into! ;)