This character isn't fully fleshed out but I was thinking of a Fighter/Summoner Hybrid if that was feasible. But the main point is that he is a fighter first & only calls for his Eidolon in dire situations. I am not sure but is there a way for an Eidolon to be summoned without actually being summoned? EX: Fighter's life is in peril & the Eidolon appears to protect him.
Nope, you have to summon it.
|
This character isn't fully fleshed out but I was thinking of a Fighter/Summoner Hybrid if that was feasible. But the main point is that he is a fighter first & only calls for his Eidolon in dire situations. I am not sure but is there a way for an Eidolon to be summoned without actually being summoned? EX: Fighter's life is in peril & the Eidolon appears to protect him.Anyways the most important detail is when he does finally reveal his Eidolon it appears as a ghostly young but beautiful woman. Essentially his own wife became an Eidolon for her husband. I wasn't able to find much about where Eidolons came from so I thought this approach might be alright. I would like her to be a strong compliment to her husband as if she completes him when summoned.
Any suggestions?
First off, people have some very different ideas of what an Eidolon is. It basically says extra planer being. Are dead people extra planer? IMHO, yes, but some GMs may disagree.
Be single class. Race wise, go half elf and pick up the weapon proficency to explain 'martial' experince. Maybe, for example, you were an Archer.
There are feats that speed up the summoning of the eidolon. For your concept get them. Usually, it takes 1 minute to summon the eidolon. shorten that.
Despite the hatred they often get, a synthesis summoner could work, so when he needs her help, he calls her and she covers him with her love which protects him and makes him feel stronger and such, but when he doesn't need her he's just your average fighter. It's not optimized and cheesy if you aren't relying on your eidolon armour to be all powerful.
If not that, I think biped would be the obvious choice with evolutions that perhaps grant magic abilities, load her up with some buffs or heals, so that she can stand back out of the fray while her fighter husband does his thing, then she intercedes with support to help him out.
Maybe the angel eidolon model (UM), giving her some combat ability as well as healing?
Also, how would you like her to complete him? Boosting his martial abilities or covering off his weaknesses? If it's the latter, you could make her as the social butterfly to his stinging wasp, getting her the skill based evolutions, boosting charisma, she shows up to talk him out of situations he can't fight out of, or charms the guard blocking him from the exit of where he's not meant to belong. Obviously before you define her role you should consider the party, if you already have a healer or face, they may feel like you're trying to outshine them or somesuch.
As for summoning her when he's on the ropes, maybe talk to whoever is DMing as I think it could be flavourful and with a solid enough story to be house ruled. Besides, a summoner who uses their eidolon as a last-resort rather than a battering ram should be rewarded. A solution is always a handwave away!
You can claim a Eidolon is anything you want really, so the spirit of his dead wife works as well as anything. Though I don't think intangible is a build option, so you'll likely have to drop the "ghostly" part.
And Summoner is pretty much the worst class to multi-class with. Your Eidolon, or ability to summon other creatures, is everything, and even a single level dip into another class can cost you far more than you gain.
All the features of a summoner, especially the Eidolon, scale with level, so multiclassing really hurts: your Eidolon will be several levels behind and thus have a hard time contributing.
If you're willing to forego "optimization" to have a really cool character concept (something I personally do and enjoy greatly!) then you could still keep your original concept by making a Summoner with fairly good strength and other physical stats. Just pretend like you're a (somewhat ineffective) fighter most of the time, and only bring out the Eidolon occasionally.
This will work for several levels, until your lower HP, lower BAB, and limited armor options really begin to have an impact. During those levels, you can begin to develop the character's devotion to the Eidolon -- you spend more and more time with it until one day the rest of the party looks up and realizes that the "fighter" they started out with has morphed into a magic-wielding summoner!
The one piece of your original description that seems difficult is having the Eidolon only show up when needed. It's easy enough not to use her until the party is really in need, but wandering around keeping out of things isn't what you were looking for. The standard 1 minute summon time is too long to help out when you really need it. There's a Summon Eidolon spell which is faster, but you wouldn't get that until 4th level.
So I have two suggestions. The first is to talk with your GM and explain what you're trying to do, then ask if there's a way to bend the rules to achieve it. Maybe you can get a deal where summoning only takes a round, not a minute, for the first 4 or 5 levels, but as a price the Eidolon is only available for Level+Charisma bonus minutes per day. Or you could "summon" the Eidolon at the beginning of each day, but the GM lets you have a way of making it invisible and it just follows along stealthily behind the party all the time. If these don't fly, you could try something similar by using your evolution points for a high stealth (adding in bonuses for small size) and the Eidolon just follows along by skulking in the shadows.
Anyway, it's a great concept... don't let the rules get in the way of making it playable!
|
|
Hm... ok so very important question if I dont multiclass. How does a Summoner fair without an Eidolon? If dipping into another class isn't viable then ill probably focus on Strength & Charisma?
I've built two for PFS (One was the 'reincarnation' of the one that died before I had the PA to raise dead) that are pretty effective. Both were half elf because the 1/4 point evolution per level takes the heat off what you needing feats to bolster your eidolon. Ancestoral arms lets you upgrade your weapon.
If you want to be an effective combatant, you need to deempathize charisma. The reason you can get away with this is because most of your spells are buffs. By this, I mean you don't need an 18 at first level.
The first had:
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 16
Build Combat expertise, improved trip, would have been Improved feint Ancestoral Arms: Whip
The second had:
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 15 (+2 Stat, +1 to make it 16 at 4th level)
At 5th level I have, point blank shot precise shot, rapid shot. Ancestoral arms: Composite long bow)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think at the moment my main issue is making an Eidolonless Summoner not useless to the party since the class is so heavily reliant on the Eidonlon & fairs poorly with multiclassing.
Actually, I'm going to put out the opinion that you in fact may not have such a bad time multiclassing fighter/summoner.
First, your offensive capabilities. Summoners are a d8 HD, 3/4 BAB class, with light armor proficiency (and the ability to cast without spell-failure in it). So, they aren't entirely useless on their own, and the fact that they have some nice buffs on their spell list means you can probably fight relatively on par for an equal leveled fighter.
The fact that your eidolon disappears if you get knocked out is the biggest deterrent to entering melee for them, but if you don't plan on having the eidolon out all the time on this character, then feel free to run it as a good melee. With a single level in fighter, you'd be picking up martial weapon proficiencies, and up to heavy armor. With Arcane Armor Training (and you'll be getting some bonus feats), and if you mostly just use spellcasting for buffs or when really needed, you probably shouldn't need to worry about the spell failure chance very much. Passing up a swift action when you want to cast a spell isn't terrible, and I can't think of all that many other uses for swift actions between the classes (barring quickened spells, but on a 6 level spellcasting progression, and multiclassing, I don't think that's gonna come into play anytime soon).
In addition, you also get free Summon Monster SLA's, though admittedly they might be a little weak if you multiclass. Still, being able to call in some extra allies X times per day could be amazingly useful. And if you progress more on the Summoner side than the fighter side, they'll probably stay relatively competitive even.
Next up, the Eidolon. One of the main reasons not to multiclass. I can't argue that it sets back your Eidolon's power. But... not necessarily all that much, and with the right style, this could be a very minor detriment.
What do you plan for his wife to do? The Magic Evolutions (while not all that great in my opinion), can let her use some suitable magic to assist in combat. Martial weapon proficiency (either in evolution or feat form) could get her a bow to provide ranged offense while the summoner goes into combat. Heck, if you gave her angel wings with flight, so she could soar around the battlefield, loosing arrows and dropping some spells, that could be pretty awesomely thematic.
In any case, those options can keep her out of the thick of things, where reduced hit dice won't be all that problematic.
The evolution points that you'll lack from a dip may be relatively negligible, depending on how many levels of fighter you put in. Supposing you were to have 4 levels, you'd probably be about 4-5 points behind. You might do well with just 2 levels of fighter though, putting you only 2-3 behind a comparatively straightclassed summoner. It's not gonna hurt all that much. Of course, I don't know how many levels you plan on taking of each. The more you put into fighter, the more your eidolon falls behind (...obviously), but a few levels really won't be crippling, in my opinion.
Just putting these thoughts out there. I think it sounds like your concept could work pretty well.
Edit: Oh, Gus Zagarella just reminded me of the other thing to bring up. For calling your eidolon out as a last resort, the Summon Eidolon spell would probably be the easiest choice, though if you can work something out with a GM (I think I recall that you don't have a game to play this in yet?) then by all means, you could go with that instead.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For the whole "eidolon as last resort" angle... Otherverse Games has a pdf called Eidolons Unbound that contains a section for eidolon flaws. One of these limitations is a restriction on summoning that prevents the eidolon from being called unless the summoner is at 1/2 his HP or lower. In exchange for taking this flaw you gain +4 evolution points. Could be something interesting to run by your GM.
|
I really like Gus' idea. That seems more or less exactly what you are looking for. All the other stuff has been said. You don't really need to multiclass into fighter unless you feel you absolutely need the bonus feats or fighter perks and/or BAB. Otherwise, the light armor, average bab, and average hd of the summoner seem to work just fine. If you're dead set on multiclassing, go for it. Just make those levels really worth it and get the most out of them. Also, heavily consider the 'extra evolution' feat since each level you take of fighter is 1-2 evolution points your eidolon doesn't have. Since your eidolon will have fewer feats and a lower bab and hit points, you'll have to build your eidolon very well to compensate for each feature it is missing that it otherwise would have.
But I am sure that it can work just fine.
Yea I have contemplated on starting off as a lv1 Fighter & then go straight Summoner from there for exactly the reasons you stated Darkwolf. I kind of want my Eidolon to be in the thick of things as well to further portray the bond they have together. "Stand together never alone" or the cliche "I'll never leave your side" kind of deal. If I must I am willing to make her a Valkyrie styled Eidolon and perhaps changed a bit of my character's back story to fit. Something like two soldiers wedded on the eve of battle but tragically it was short lived.
I like the concept, and I think its pretty doable. As others have said, multiclassing is not strictly required for the concept, but a dip into fighter for the character's first level could well be worth it (IMO it comes down to whether you can put that feat to good use). You'd get 2 extra HP (maxed d10 vs. d8), a +2 to Fort, and obviously an extra feat. You'd also get to front load your BAB a touch by starting at +1 (but wouldn't get any extra BAB in the long term either), and over the life of the character, the eidolon wouldn't lose a HD, BAB, or Save progression either. At 20th level, the cost to the eidolon would be -1 to Str/Dex, -2 NA, and 1 Evo point. Not too bad.
Regardless, I'd build Your character with a strong martial tilt as far as stat distribution, focusing on Str, Dex, and Con. You can get away with a 14 (or even 12) Cha with a summoner. Just make sure you get the appropriate +Cha headband as you level so you can cast your higher level spells. I'd likely go with Half-Elf, mainly for the +1/4 Evo point FCB, but also because you'd be sleep immune, which is nice for a summoner. If you start fighter, I'd use the dual minded alternate racial trait for another +2 Will, but if you decide to go straight summoner, I'd take Ancestral Arms instead so you can get training with whatever weapon you want to use. Similarly, focus primarily on the standard martial feats, depending on your fighting style.
As for summoning the eidolon only when required...the Summon Eidolon spell is going to be the only real way to do that, but remember its a 1 round cast time (not too easy to get off in melee), and you won't have it available until level 4 at the earliest. Further, relying on it too much will eat those level 2 slots and make your eidolon weaker than normal since it can now be Dispelled, and Protection from X spells work against its natural attacks. Personally, I would just keep the eidolon summoned but stealthed or in the background, perhaps providing subtle support but not directly participating in combat unless you're in it deep.
If you want the eidolon to be combat-capable in its own right, I'd strongly advise a Vanilla Summoner (no archetype). However, if you want to make the eidolon full support, you could do this as a Master Summoner so you can use the summon monster SLA's in addition to the eidolon's support abilities, but it definitely will not be useful in direct combat that way (the SLA's WILL be of course, and you could potentially flavor those as extensions of her will or something...especially if she was a spellcaster of some kind in life).
Anyway, as for the Eidolon's build, Biped base form is obviously appropriate, and gives her a leg up in combat effectiveness due to the Str. Then, you could go one of two ways as far as flavoring her.
First, she could appear as a Ghost, in which case, you should check out the Undead Appearance, Unnatural Appearance, Lifesense, Shadow Blend, Incorporeal Form, and perhaps the Channel Resistance, Frightful Presence and No Breath evolutions.
Second, she could appear as an Angelic figure, in which case, I'd look at the Resistance/Immunity, Blindsense/Blindsight, and Dimension Door evolutions, and perhaps also the Basic (Stabilize), Minor (sure light wounds or silent image), Major (cure moderate wounds, invisibility, or lesser restoration), and Ultimate Magic (cure serious wounds) line of evolutions. These 'X Magic' evolutions are not particularly strong, but the spot healing could come in handy, and they're thematic for an angelic guardian.
In Either case, you should check out the Flight evolution (preferably wingless flight for 2 extra points), Damage Reduction, and Spell Resistance evolutions. Additionally, it should probably fight with a weapon, rather than natural attacks, for thematic reasons, so make sure you pick up a Weapon Proficiency feat for her (Note: use a feat, not the evolution, as its FAR more efficient and just a better deal all around).
Also remember that you don't need ALL of those evolutions at a given time. You can (and should) use the Evolution Surge line of spells to supplement the evolutions you choose as needed (stuff like elemental resistances/immunities, channel resistance, spell resistance, frightful presence, no breath, etc. are good candidates for Evo Surge since you'll generally know when you need them, but it won't be ALL the time. Any time you've got extra evolution points, throw them into Improved Natural Armor and/or Skilled (whatever skill you want/need).